[ TOWN OF GREENBURGH CONSERVATION ADVISORY COUNCIL AGENDA MEETING TO BE HELD VIA ZOOM-ENABLED VIDEO CONFERENCE THURSDAY, February 24, 2022 – 6:30 P.M. ]
[00:00:02]
AND ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I WANNA DO IS I WANNA THANK JAMES, UM, FOR THE QUICK RESPONSE AND THE CAREFUL RESPONSE TO OUR QUESTIONS.SO, JAMES, THANK YOU, UM, WAS, IT WAS NICE TO GET THOSE ANSWERS BACK FROM YOU AS QUICKLY AS THEY DID COME, SO WE APPRECIATE IT.
UH, THE NEXT NORMAL ORDER OF BUSINESS IS APPROVING THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY 10TH.
UH, CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM FEBRUARY 10TH? DON'T, WE'LL JUMP AT ONCE.
SECOND, IS THIS, IS THIS TWO MEETING OR IS THIS LAST MEETING? THAT WAS THE LAST MEETING.
THE VERY BEEF, THE ONE WE HAD ON THE 10TH, NOT THE ONE ON THE SEVENTH.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS IS, SHARON, DID YOU EVER GET BACK TO NANCY? YOU WANTED TO CHANGE THE WORDING IN THE MINUTES OF THE 25TH OF JANUARY? YEAH, SHE AND I EMAILED BACK AND FORTH ABOUT IT.
I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT THEM SINCE.
SHE SAID SHE LIKED MY CHANGES, BUT, OKAY.
'CAUSE WE JUST, I'M JUST TRYING TO DO A LITTLE HOUSEKEEPING HERE.
AND WITH THAT, I THINK WE'RE SORT OF READY TO BEGIN.
UM, WE HAD, MIKE HAS DONE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK FOR US.
I, I, WHY DON'T WE DO THAT, MIKE? AND JUST F Y I, FOR ANYONE WHO CAME IN LATE, DONNA HAS AGREED TO DO MINUTES TONIGHT.
UH, SO WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO TONIGHT IS WE'VE ALL RECEIVED THE DRAFT AND WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH THE DRAFT AND THE EASE OF GOING THROUGH IT.
WE'RE GONNA GO THROUGH IT SECTION BY SECTION AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT IT, COMMENT, ASK QUESTIONS BY THIS PARTICULAR SECTION.
AND YOU NOTICE, AND THAT, THAT WILL HELP BECAUSE THE PAGES AREN'T NUMBERED SINCE THIS WAS OFF OF, UM, AN EMAIL.
AND THAT WAY WE CAN SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE DISCUSSING FINDINGS THREE AND WE'RE ALL ON FINDINGS THREE AT THE SAME TIME.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS JUST TO SHARE WITH YOU THE REASON MIKE DID THE TERMINOLOGY FINDINGS, THAT IS THE FORMAT ON THE E I S COMMENT FORMAT.
UM, I THINK WITH THAT, WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL START OUT AND JUST START OUT ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THE VERY FIRST THING, WHICH IS THE OVERVIEW AND FINDINGS, WHICH IS A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF WHAT'S GONNA FOLLOW.
DID ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT? DONNA? GEORGE, MARGARET QUESTIONS? NO, I'VE READ, READ IT OVER.
NO, I MEAN, I, I, I READ THE PREVIOUS DRAFT, UM, AND I HAD SIMILAR COMMENTS THAT MARGARET HAD.
I THINK YOU DID A GREAT JOB, MIKE.
WE HAVE A BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF ALTERNATIVES.
I THINK THAT'S SELF-EXPLANATORY.
AND THEN THE NEXT WE COME TO IS THE FI FIRST FINDINGS, WHICH DISCUSSES NET TAX BENEFIT AND LOSS.
UM, AGAIN, THAT'S PRETTY MEATY.
UM, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS ON THIS SECTION? UM, TERRY, MAY I, MAY I, IS THAT KEN? YES, IT'S KEN.
UM, AS ALWAYS, I, I APPRECIATE THE INPUT OF THE C A C AND, AND THE INCREDIBLE WORK THAT, THAT YOU DO.
UM, I, I JUST WANTED TO ASK WITH REGARD TO FINDING NUMBER ONE, UM, YOU, YOU, YOU SAY THAT, UM, THAT THE ASSUMPTION IS QUESTIONABLE WHETHER TOWN HOUSES CAN BE TAXED AS SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES.
OBVIOUSLY THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST ATTRACTIVE THINGS TO US ABOUT THE MOST RECENT NEGOTIATIONS.
AND I JUST WANTED YOU TO DRILL DOWN A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THAT.
UM, UNLESS IT'S, UNLESS WE'RE GONNA GET TO IT, UM, UNLESS WE'RE GONNA GET TO IT, UH, BELOW, UM, WHY, WHY IN, IN, IF THE OWNER OR THE DEVELOPER IS AGREEING TO IT, IF IT CAN BE IN THE DEEDS AS A RESTRICTION, WOULD IT BE A QUESTIONABLE ASSUMPTION? AND WE'RE GONNA,
[00:05:01]
UH, CAN, UM, THAT'S GOING, THAT IS THE ENTIRE SUBJECT OF NUMBER TWO.SO WE'LL BE THERE, UM, MAYBE IN 30 SECONDS.
WELL, ONE THING I DIDN'T WANNA SAY.
MAYBE I HAVE A QUESTION FOR GEORGE.
MAYBE, UH, YOU, UH, MAYBE TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT, AT, AT TWO WHILE I'M, UH, ASKING GEORGE.
GEORGE, UM, UM, TOMORROW AFTERNOON, UM, UH, MARGARET AND TERRY AND I ARE GOING TO MEET ABOUT, TRY THIS LANGUAGE OF TRYING TO PUT INTO ENGLISH THE FINANCIAL CONCEPT OF WHAT IS THE $19 MILLION, YOU KNOW, CAPITALIZATION IMPACT OF, UH, OF THIS.
I KNOW YOU DO ANALYSIS AND HAVE DEALT WITH CAPITALIZATION IMPACTS.
ARE YOU ABLE, WOULD YOU ARE, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE BACK YET FROM YOUR, FROM YOUR TRIP? YOU, YOU'RE MUTED, GEORGE? YES.
I, I ARE YOU AROUND TOMORROW AFTERNOON? YES.
WE, WE'LL, WE'LL SET UP A TIME.
IT DEPENDS ON MARGARET 'CAUSE SHE'S GOT A, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, SHE, SHE'S SQUEEZ NICELY SQUEEZING US IN, IN HER FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM HER PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE.
UH, MARGARET WILL SET A TIME AND THEN, UH, HOPEFULLY YOU AND TERRY AND I CAN ALL TALK TO MARK.
WE'LL TRY TO COME UP WITH SOME WAY OF TRYING TO, TO EXPLAIN IN, IN PLAIN ENGLISH, YOU KNOW, WHAT CAPITALIZATION MEANS AND WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF IT.
GETTING BACK TO FINDINGS ONE, WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND SAYING, UM, DO PEOPLE HAVE, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM? I SEE DONNA'S SHAKING HER HEAD NO.
AND I'VE GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE, UH, NANCY AND SHARON.
I CAN, AND MARGARET, I CAN'T SEE YOU.
OR GEORGE, I WOULD ASK, I GUESS IF, IF IN FACT YOU HAVE A COMMENT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE JUST UNMUTE YOURSELVES.
'CAUSE I CAN'T, I CAN'T SEE YOU, SO I CAN'T, I CAN'T.
I CAN'T, I CAN'T OPERATE ON HEADS SHAKING OR, OR HANDS GOING UP UNLESS I CAN SEE YOU.
SO, OKAY, THIS IS SHARON AND I'M CONTENT TO LISTEN.
OKAY, SO, SO NOW WE'RE INTO FINDINGS TOO, WHICH IS, GOES TO THE ASSUMPTION THAT TOWNHOUSES CAN BE PREVENTED FROM BECOMING CONDOMINIUMS. AND THIS IS THE ONE THAT HAS A CONCERN FOR KEN AND MIKE.
MAYBE YOU WANNA ADDRESS ANY COMMENTS ON THIS IN TERMS OF SURE.
WHAT, UH, AGAIN, JAMES, I WANT TO, UM, UH, REPEAT WHAT, UH, UH, WHAT TERRY SAID.
UH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ATTENDING LAST TIME, FOR ATTENDING THIS TIME, AND FOR GIVING US A PROMPT RESPONSE TO THE, UM, UH, THREE QUESTIONS WE HAD.
AND THEY WERE VERY HELPFUL FOR US TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT, UH, UH, THE APPLICANT WANTS TO DO.
UM, SO WHAT I MEAN, FIRST OF ALL, WE TOOK OUT OF THE, UH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE E I F, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN HOW SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES AND CONDOS ARE TAXED? AND, YOU KNOW, ON AVERAGE, AS DESCRIBED IN THE F E I S, THERE'S ABOUT THE CONDOS ARE TAXED ARE ABOUT 60%, UM, OF, UH, SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES.
NOW, UM, ALL OF THE TOWNHOUSE ASSUMPTIONS OF ON THE PREDICATE, I MEAN ALL THE, UH, TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES ON THE PREDICATED AS ASSUMPTION THE TOWNHOUSES CAN BE LEGALLY PREVENTED FROM BECOMING CONDUCTS.
THAT IS, IF YOU KNOW MR. AND MRS. UM, SMITH, UH, BY THE, BY, YOU KNOW, 2025, BUY ONE OF THESE, UH, UH, BUY A TOWNHOUSE, ASSUMING THE TOWNHOUSES IS WHAT'S BUILT, BUT ASSUMING THAT THE TOWNHOUSE IS BUILT, SOMEONE THAT BUYS IN 2025 AND THEY SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, WE WANT TO BE A CONDO, AND EVERYONE ELSE AROUND US WANTS TO BE A CONDO.
'CAUSE IT'LL BE TAXED LESS, UH, THAT IT CAN BE PRE, UM, UH, PREVENTED.
NOW, THE F E I S SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE A DEEDED RESTRICTION OF, UH, OR COMPARABLE MECHANISM.
NOW, IN, IN THE RESPONSE THAT WE GOT A COUPLE DAYS AGO, COUPLE, UH, FROM JAMES, IT SAYS THE DEEDED WILL NOT CONTAIN AN OFFER TO BE TACKED A HUNDRED PERCENT AS SINGLE FAMILY, BUT THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, A DECLARATION WOULD CONTAIN A COVENANT THAT, UH, IT CAN'T BE CONVERTED TO, UH, CONDOS.
NOW, THE, THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ISSUES HERE, THE TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.
AND KEN, UH, TELL ME PLEASE, IF THIS IS NOT WHAT THE TOWN BOARD IS LOOKING
[00:10:01]
TO LOOKING FOR IN TERMS OF ANALYTICS.ONE IS THERE IS A CONDO ACT IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS, AS WE ALL KNOW, AS YOU KNOW, AND THAT REFLECTS A POLICY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO LET PEOPLE HAVE CONDOMINIUM OWNERSHIP.
NOW, UM, WE SUGGEST THAT EITHER THE, THE, UH, NEW YORK AG OR THE NEW YORK CONTROLLER, IT, THE TOWN REQUEST EITHER THE CONTROLLER OR THE AG TO ISSUE AN OPINION THAT THE PROPOSAL TO PREVENT THIS GROUP OF, OF BE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 159 AND 1 75 TOWNHOUSES FROM BECOMING A CONDO, YOU KNOW, IS LEGAL.
UM, AND IT DOESN'T VIOLATE NEW YORK PUBLIC'S POLICY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, UH, IF, UM, IF THERE'S A STATE POLICY AND A CONTRACT
AND SO, UM, UH, WE SUGGEST THAT BECAUSE THERE'S BIG DOLLARS RIDING ON THIS FOR THE TOWN.
I MEAN, BIG, BIG DOLLARS, MUCH MORE THAN 19 MILLION, IT'S PROBABLY DOUBLE THAT, UM, UH, UH, UM, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S LEGAL AND DOESN'T VIOLATE THE CONDOMINIUM ACT, UH, FOR A CON FOR A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION TO SAY YOU CAN'T BECOME A CONDO.
SO THAT'S THE FIRST ASPECT OF IT IS, IS THIS THE LEGALITY OF IT.
THEN THE SECOND ASPECT OF IS ENFORCEABILITY.
NOW THE TOWN IS NOT A PARTY TO THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION.
UH, AND IN ADDITION, UH, THE TOWN WOULD NOT BE ENFORCED A PARTY TO A DEED.
THE DEED'S GONNA GO FROM DEVELOPER TO MR. AND MRS. SMITH, WHO THEN MAY SELL IT TO MR. S WILLIAMS, WHO MAY SELL IT TO, UH, UM, MR. AND MRS. X, Y, Z, YOU KNOW, THE, THE TOWN'S NOT A PARTY TO EITHER THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION OR THE DEEDED.
SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN ISSUE, A LEGAL ISSUE.
IF YOU ARE NOT A PARTY TO SOMETHING, HOW CAN YOU ENFORCE IT? NOW THERE, THEREFORE WE HAVE ATTACHED HERE, UH, A LEGAL OPINION OR TWO LEGAL'S OPINIONS.
ONE, IF IT'S A MATTER OF BEING IN THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, AND ONE, IF IT'S A MATTER BEING IN THE DEEDED, A LEGAL OPINION SAYING, HEY, EVEN THOUGH THE TOWN IS NOT A PARTY TO, UH, THE HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATION DECLARATIONS, OR EVEN THOUGH THE TOWN'S NOT A PARTY TO THE DEEDED, THE TOWN CAN STILL ENFORCE IT.
AND WE HAVE SOME SUGGESTIONS THAT, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK BACK IN THE LEGAL OPINIONS THAT, AND, UH, NANCY HELPED DEVELOP THIS, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, SAY THAT, UM, UM, UM, WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE COVENANT, THAT THE PARCEL MAY NOT BE CONVERTED TO A CONDOMINIUM FORM OF OWNERSHIP.
THAT THE TOWN OF GREENBERG IS A THIRD PARTY BENEFICIARY OF THE COVENANT, AND THAT PACIFIC PERFORMANCE IS THE ONLY REMEDY, AND THEN THE OPINION GOES ON.
IT'S LEGAL AND VALID, UH, BINDS THE INITIAL AND FUTURE OWNERS OF THE PARCEL PARCEL AND IS ENFORCEABLE IN ACCORDANCE WITH ITS TERMS BY THE TOWN OF GREENBURG AGAINST THE INITIAL AND FUTURE OWNERS.
SO IT SEEMS THAT THERE ARE TWO THINGS FOR THE TOWN TO GET THE COMFORT OF THIS PROMISE AND C A C'S NOT AGAINST THE PROMISE, BUT, UM, THERE'S TWO THINGS.
ONE IS OUT OF ISSUE, IT'S LEGAL.
IT, IT DOESN'T VIOLATE THE CONDOMINIUM ACT.
IT'S NOT BORDERED UNDER PUBLIC POLICY.
AND IF IT'S LEGAL, THE TOWN OF GREENBERG CAN ENFORCE IT.
SO THAT'S THE DISCUSSION IN FINDING TOO.
NOW, MAYBE THERE'S MORE WE SHOULD DISCUSS OR MAYBE THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE TOWN BOARD WOULD BE INTERESTED ENOUGH, US HAVING ANALYZED.
AND SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS, KEN? UM, IS IT, IS IT ARE, AND I, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING READ THIS AS CLOSELY AS I COULD HAVE BEFORE THE MEETING.
UM, BUT IS IT, IS IT YOUR OPINION? AND BY YOU I MEAN THE C A C THAT, UM, THE, THE PROMISE IS STRONGER IF IT'S CONTAINED IN A DEEDED RESTRICTION RATHER THAN IN AN H O A AGREEMENT, BUT THAT IS STILL QUESTIONABLE WHETHER THE TOWN IS A THIRD PARTY HAS STANDING TO ENFORCE IT.
WELL, BASED ON THE RESEARCH THAT NANCY'S DONE, AND JUST MARVELOUS JOB OF WHAT'S, UM, WE KNOW THAT IN DEEDS, IF IT IS WRITTEN PROPERLY, NANCY, YOU JUMP IN HERE.
[00:15:01]
BOTCH THIS UP, WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE TWO CASES THAT NANCY HAS BEEN ABLE TO FIND, ONE INVOLVING NEW YORK CITY AND THE OTHER, I FORGET WHAT WAS INVOLVING, UM, SOME OF THE SMALL PLACE IN THE STATE.I DON'T REMEMBER, UH, TWO CASES NANCY'S BEEN ABLE TO LOCATE WHERE IN DEEDS, IF PROPERLY WRITTEN THAT IS THAT THERE'S AN EXPRESS THIRD PARTY BEN BENEFICIARY CLAUSE, WHICH SAYS THE TOWN, THE MUNICIPALITY CAN ENFORCE THIS, UM, UH, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, THE, SORRY, THE DIDN'T SAY THAT QUITE RIGHT.
THE MUNICIPALITY IS A THIRD PARTY BENEFICIARY AND CAN ENFORCE IT.
UM, THAT, UM, IF IT'S PROPERLY WRITTEN, AND OF COURSE WE DON'T KNOW, WE HAVE NO FORM OF DEEDED PROPOSED.
BUT IF IT'S PROPERLY WRITTEN, UH, I THINK THE CAC IS COMFORTABLE BASED ON NANCY'S RESEARCH THAT A DEED WOULD WORK, A DEEDED RESTRICTION WOULD WORK IF PROPERLY WRITTEN.
AND I REALLY WANT TO EMPHASIZE, CAN, UH, WORDS MATTER HERE MM-HMM.
UH, NANCY, I'M VOLUNTEERING, WILL BE HAPPY TO, UH, TALK TO SOMEONE ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT WORDS ARE, UM, IF, UH, IF THE TOWN SHOULD GO THAT WAY.
BUT IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST, UH, THIS IS NOT PA TO BE PAINTED WITH A BROAD RUSH.
THIS IS TECHNICAL STUFF, TECH, WHICH I MEAN, WHICH YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, YOU KNOW, AS A, AS A, AS A TRIAL LAWYER.
UM, UM, SO IF IT'S PROPERLY DONE, NANCY'S FOUND TWO CASES, ONE INVOLVING NEW YORK CITY WHERE, UM, DEEDED RESTRICTIONS WHERE MUNICIPALITIES HAVE BEEN ALLOWED, WHERE THEY ARE EXPRESSLY IDENTIFIED AS THIRD PARTY BENEFICIARIES WITH THE RIGHTS OF ENFORCEMENT TO ENFORCE.
UM, WE ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY SIMILAR CASE INVOLVING HOMEOWNERS SITUATION.
IT DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST.
I CANNOT REPRESENT, IT DOESN'T EXIST IN THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS.
WE'RE NOT AWARE, AND WE THINK IT'S VERY CRUCIAL THAT APPLICANT'S COUNSEL GIVE A LEGAL OPINION BECAUSE IN THE PRIVATE FINANCING WORLD, WHICH I HAVE, YOU KNOW, SOME EXPERIENCE IN IT ALWAYS IS, UM, ABSOLUTELY STANDARD THAT IF GONNA ACCEPT SOME PROPOSAL THAT'S NOT JUST ABSOLUTELY VANILLA, UH, ABOUT SOMETHING THAT THE COUNCIL OF THE PARTY PROPOSING IT STAND BEHIND IT MM-HMM.
BUT IT'S ANOTHER THING TO STAND UP AND SAY FOR THAT COUNCIL TO SAY, HEY, I REALLY BELIEVE THIS WORKS.
I'M GIVING YOU A, YOU KNOW, THE FIRM IS GIVING A LEGAL OPINION.
'CAUSE THIS IS, I I MEAN, MARGARET HASN'T FIGURED OUT THE NUMBERS.
WHEN I SAY IT'S WORTH DOUBLE $19 MILLION TO TOWN, I'M JUST GUESSING, AND I'M PROBABLY WRONG 'CAUSE, YOU KNOW, I BECAME A LAWYER 'CAUSE I COULDN'T DO MATH.
UH, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, WE, WE KNOW THERE'S A $19 MILLION NEGATIVE HERE AND THERE MAY BE A MORE, SUBSTANTIALLY MORE, BUT WE REALLY SUGGEST THE TOWN GET AN UNDERLYING SOMETHING FROM EITHER THE CONTROLLER OR THE AG THAT THIS THING'S, OKAY, IT'S LEGAL AND IT DOES NOT VIOLATE, UH, THE PUBLIC POLICY AND CONDOMINIUM ACT.
AND IF IT'S LEGAL, THEN, UM, WE KNOW WE'RE, WE'RE RELATIVELY SURE THE DEEDED WORKS AND THE DEED'S GOTTA BE WRITTEN VERY PRECISELY, AND WE THINK APPLICANT'S COUNSEL OUGHT STAND BEHIND IT.
UM, AND IF A HOME, AND IF, IF, IF, UH, THE TOWN'S LEGAL DEPARTMENT OR SOMETHING'S ABLE TO FIND THE CASE ON, UH, THAT IT, THAT THAT THIRD PARTY BENEFICIARIES, UH, LANGUAGE AND ENFORCEMENT LANGUAGE FOR, FOR THE THIRD PARTY BENEFICIARY WORKS IN A HOMEOWNER'S STATION, WE'RE NOT AGAINST IT.
BUT AGAIN, WE THINK THERE OUGHT TO BE AN OPINION FROM, UH, APPLICANT'S COUNSEL BECAUSE THE TOTAL RISK ON THIS IS BEING PLACED ON THE TAXPAYERS OF THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
SO, I MEAN, AND AGAIN, UM, IF YOU'D LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH NANCY ABOUT HER RESEARCH, YOU WOULDN'T LIKE NANCY TO SEND YOU HER RESEARCH? I'M SURE SHE WILL.
UH, UH, IF, UM, UM, WE'RE TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND BE HELPFUL, BUT WE'RE ALSO TRYING TO BE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO BE, UH, RESPONSIBLE AT THE SAME TIME.
[00:20:01]
SURE.UM, AND, UM, WE'LL CERTAINLY EMPHASIZE THIS CONVERSATION WITH THE REST OF THE BOARD, UM, AND FOLLOW UP WITH NANCY AS DIRECTED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS WAS A HUGE, A HUGE PROMISE, UM, UH, THAT WE THOUGHT WE HAD EXTRACTED AND YOU KNOW, WE DID A LITTLE HAPPY DANCE AFTER THEY AGREED TO DO IT.
UM, BUT OF COURSE I KNOW THAT THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS, SO WE GOTTA FOLLOW IT UP.
AND YOU, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A LITIGATOR.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW,
SO ANYTHING ELSE ON THIS ONE? ANYONE ELSE? SO THEN, THEN LET'S GO ON TO FINDING THREE REQUIRED RECREATIONAL LAND TRANSFER.
I THINK YOU OUGHT TO, UH, TALK TO EVERYONE ABOUT, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DEVELOP THIS YET.
I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT AT LEAST GIVE, YOU KNOW, EXPLAIN THE, OH, OKAY.
YOU EXPLAINED IT TO ME, BUT IT TOOK YOU, YOU KNOW, FIVE OR 10 MINUTES FOR ME TO UNDERSTAND IT.
MIKE IS TALKING ABOUT THAT LITTLE PIECE IN BRACKETS THAT SAYS TAXATION OF ZERO LOT LINE DWELLING, UNIT LOT AND TAXATION OF H O A LANDS.
UM, I HAD A LITTLE CONVERSATION WITH, UM, ED TODAY, OUR TOWN, UH, PROFESSOR, BECAUSE I WAS, I SORT OF STARTED TO THINK ABOUT THIS WHEN WE GOT THE ANSWER.
AND MIKE AND I WERE ON THE PHONE.
WE WERE KIND OF TALKING AND WE SAID, OKAY, SO IF THERE'S ZERO LOT LINE ON THIS UNIT, IT MEANS THAT, TERRY, WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE ANSWER WE GOT FROM JAMES.
SO IT'S BASICALLY, UM, WELL, THE ANSWER WE GOT FROM JAMES WAS THAT, UH, THE, THE WAY IT WAS BEING TREATED WAS THE PERSON WHO WAS BUYING THE CONDOMINIUM WAS JUST GETTING THE CONDOMINIUM.
SO THAT SORT OF RAISED THE QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, WELL, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE LAND? AND LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
SO I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH EDIE AND I ASKED HIM, YOU KNOW, HOW IS A REGULAR PUD TAXED? AND WHEN A REGULAR PUD IS TAXED, SINCE YOU HAVE A HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION, EVERYTHING IS KIND OF IN ONE BIG BUSHEL BASKET, IF YOU WOULD.
AND THE EVALUATION, WHEN THEY DO THE EVALUATION ON THE TOWNHOUSE, IT INCLUDES THE LAND UNDERNEATH ALL THE LAND INVOLVED, THE LAND THAT'S BEEN PUT ASIDE AS OPEN SPACE.
AND IT ALL GOES INTO THE VALUE OF THE UNIT.
BUT NOW IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE UNIT ITSELF IS SORT OF BEING DETACHED FROM THE LAND.
SO THEN THE QUESTION AROSE IN MY MIND IS, IF YOU DETACH THE UNIT FROM THE LAND, HOW IS THE LAND BEING TAXED? AT WHAT RATE? AND IT ALSO THEN HAD A SORT OF SUB, SUB THING IS THAT, UM, IF YOU TAX THE LAND SEPARATELY, UNLIKE WITH YOU DO GET A SEPARATE LAND AS AS ASSESSMENT IF YOU LIVE IN A RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, LIKE MOST OF US DO.
AND THAT ASSESSMENT IS BASED ON WHERE IT'S LOCATED AND SUCH, BUT ALSO ON THE FACT THAT IT'S IN A DEVELOPED AREA.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE EMPTY LAND, THE TERM E ED USED WAS RO RAW LAND IS ASSESSED AT A LOWER RATE.
SO IT WOULD SEEM THERE'S A SORT OF A SUBTOPIC THAT COMES OUT OF THIS, THAT THIS OPEN LAND WOULD BE ASSESSED AT LESS PROBABLY THAN THE LAND WOULD BE IF THE LAND WAS AROUND A HOUSE IN A DEVELOPMENT.
SO WE'RE GONNA, AGAIN, GET INTO A THING THAT MAKES THIS, UM, A NEGATIVE IN TERMS OF TAXES.
SO WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THERE IS TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE THOUGHT ON THIS.
'CAUSE WE'VE GOT THIS INFORMATION MIDDAY TODAY AND, AND, AND, AND I WAS KIND OF ON THE RUN WHEN I GOT IT, AND JUST A MATTER JUST ABOUT PAST IT TO MIKE, HAD TIME TO DO THAT.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THERE, IS THAT THERE IS A WHOLE QUESTION THEN.
AND ALSO THEN IF THE LAND IS SEPARATED FROM THE PHYSICAL UNIT
[00:25:01]
WHO OWNS THE LAND, WE CAN GET INTO THIS PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IN, IN FINDING TOO, ABOUT HOW WE CONTROL THE TOWN CONTROLS THE LAND TO SEE THAT THE LAND IS TAXED AS LAND WOULD BE IN A SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT.AND DID I MANAGE TO MAKE THIS CLEAR, MIKE
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DIGEST IT AND UNDERSTAND IT, TELL YOU TO TALK WITH ED.
THE ANSWER MAY SIMPLY BE ON THIS, WE'RE JUST EXPLAIN IT IN THIS, IN THE NEXT ITERATION OF THE DRAFT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, MY INITIAL THOUGHTS IS THAT THE TOWN ORDER, AND KEN TELL ME IF THIS IS OKAY.
I, MY INITIAL THOUGHT IS, I DON'T KNOW, OTHER PEOPLE WILL SEE SOMETHING DISCUSS THIS NEW ISSUE FOR US FOR A, YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD THIS FOR A DAY.
UM, IS THAT, UM, THE TOWN OUGHT TO ASK EDIE, YOU KNOW, ARE THE TAX NUMBERS THAT ARE IN THE CHART.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS, UH, REALLY IMPORTANT CHART ON PAGE TWO DASH 17.
IT'S CALLED TABLE TWO DASH ONE.
THE BOTTOM OF THIS CHART ON PAGE TWO DASH 17.
IT GIVES THE GROSS TAX, GROSS FISCAL TAX BENEFIT.
ARE THOSE, DOES, DOES, DOES A D THINK THOSE NUMBERS ARE APPROXIMATELY RIGHT? I MEAN, NO ONE'S GONNA ASKING IT IF IT'S RIGHT TO THE PENNY OR THE DOLLAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WHAT WE SHOULD BE RECOMMENDING IS THAT A D B CONSULTED AND INFORM THE TOWN BOARD AND THEN AFTER, AND WHATEVER AD COMES WITH, I THINK SHOULD BE PUBLIC SO THE PUBLIC KNOWS, UM, YOU KNOW, ARE THESE NUMBERS RIGHT? BECAUSE IT MAY WELL BE THAT, UM, UM, I MEAN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DEED TO THE DWELLING IS LIKE ONLY WHERE YOU SLEEP.
YOU KNOW, IT'S THE BRICK AND MORTAR.
UM, AND IT'S THE, MAYBE IT IS THE, PROBABLY THE FRONT STAIRS, BUT THAT'S IT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S THE BRICK AND MORTAR, THE FOUR WALLS AND THE FRONT STAIRS, AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.
UH, AND THAT'S ALL YOU GET A DEEDED TO.
AND THE LAND IS IN THE HOMEOWNER'S ASSOCIATION AND THE LAND'S UNDEVELOPED, EXCEPT MAYBE THERE'S GONNA BE A CLUBHOUSE AND A SWIMMING POOL OR SOMETHING.
OR MAYBE MAYBE BE A TENNIS COURT.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S ESSENTIALLY UNDEVELOPED LAND.
AND UNDEVELOPED LAND IS NOT TAXED AT THE SAME RATE AS DEVELOPED PLAN, UH, ACCORDING TO WHAT TERRY, WHAT
SO, UH, IT'S JUST A SO, SO, SO ALL THESE NUMBERS THAT ARE IN THE, UH, GROSS FISCAL TAX BENEFITS DOES ANYTHING.
BECAUSE IF THE NUMBERS ARE MUCH LOWER, UH, THEN ALL OF THE THREE, UH, TOWNHOUSE HOUSE TAX BENEFIT NUMBERS ARE OVERSTATED.
AND AGAIN, THE $19 MILLION, UH, KEEPS GROWING
THE, THE LOSS TO THE TOWNS CAN BE MORE THAN $19 MILLION TO PICK ONE OF THE TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES.
SO, BUT WHY WOULD THE, WHY WOULD THE LAND BE CONSIDERED UNDEVELOPED IF THERE WERE TOWNHOUSES ON IT? 'CAUSE POD, IF IT'S A POD, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF A POD IS YOU HAVE OPEN SPACE, RIGHT? BUT THAT'S ONLY A PERCENTAGE OF THE LAND, NOT ALL OF IT.
THEY SAY 45 ACRES WILL BE OPEN SPACE.
IT'S IN THE, I DON'T REMEMBER THE PAGE.
WE, MAYBE WE PUT IT IN THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
WE SHOULD PUT IN WHAT PAGES ON, THEY SAY 45 ACRES WILL BE OPEN SPACE AND A PUT, SO 45 ACRES, IT'S 106.
I MEAN A LITTLE LESS THAN 45%.
AND THOSE, THEY'RE SAYING THEY'RE GONNA HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN JUST USING A HUNDRED FOR ROUND FEE IS 106.
JUST TO MAKE THE MASS SIMPLE, THEY'RE SAYING 55 ACRES IS GONNA HAVE BRICK AND MORTAR ON IT, AND 45 ACRES IS GONNA BE OPEN SPACE.
SO, SO I MEAN, THE TECH, I, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TERRY AND I DON'T, I MEAN, WE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT THE, WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ABOUT ASSESSMENTS, YOU KNOW, BUT WE'RE C A C, YOU KNOW, WE, BUT YOU KNOW, TERRY DID HAVE A DISCUSSION WITH EDIE, AND, YOU KNOW, 45% OF THIS PROPERTY IS GONNA BE TAXED A AT A LOWER RATE THAN IF IT WAS DEVELOPED.
NOW, I DON'T KNOW, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT.
I MEAN, IT'S NOT LIKE IT HAS NO TAX, IT'S NOT A HUGE AMOUNT, BUT IT'S, IT'S, AGAIN, IT'S, IT'S LESS, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE WE'RE LOOKING AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE DIFFERENTIAL IS.
SEE, THIS IS WHERE I THINK WHEN MIKE SAID YOU REALLY NEED TO GET ENT TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE ALTERNATIVES.
[00:30:01]
BEING SET UP TO GET A REAL UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE, WHAT THE TAX IMPLICATIONS ARE.I PERSONALLY THINK, THINK C C THINKS THE TOWN BOARD SHOULD WANT IT.
MARGARET, WHO IS A WEALTH MANAGER, UM, AND, UM, DOES THESE TYPE OF ANALYSIS WITH C A C WILL TELL YOU THE CAPITALIZED VALUE FOR 10, 15, AND 20 YEARS OF GETTING LESS TAXES.
RIGHT NOW, AT A MINIMUM, THE CAPITALIZED VALUE OF USING THE 1 59 ALTERNATIVE MM-HMM.
AND IF IT TURNS OUT THAT, THAT THE COURSE, IF IT TURNS OUT THAT THESE THINGS THAT YOU COULD NOT ENFOR THAT, THAT IT AIN'T LEGAL TO HAVE A THOU SHALL NO NOT BE A CONDO COVENANT, OR EVEN IF IT'S LEGAL TO HAVE A THOU SHALL NOT BE CONDO COVER, BUT THE TOWN COULDN'T ENFORCE IT.
THAT 19, THE NEGATIVE TAX HIT TO THE TOWNS WAY, YOU KNOW, HUGE, MORE THAN 19 MILLION.
AND IF IT TURNS OUT THE TAX, THE 45% OF THE PROPERTY IS AT A LOWER RATE THAN DEVELOPED PROPERTY AND SINGLE FAMILIES, AGAIN, THAT $19 MILLION WILL GROW.
NOW, UM, I'M VOLUNTEERING NANCY, BUT YOU KNOW, I MEAN, NOT NANCY, UH, MARGARET VOLUNTEER MARGARET, BUT, AND YOU KNOW, MARGARET CAN OBVIOUSLY DO THIS, UH, AND, UH, SHE'S, SHE'S DONE IT BASED ON THE NUMBERS WE HAVE, BUT THAT $19 MILLION COULD BE HUGE.
AND I WOULD ASSUME JUST LIKE ANY, YOU KNOW, PRIVATE ENTERPRISE THAT WOULD WANT TO KNOW THE FINANCIAL IMPACT OF THE DECISIONS THEY'RE MAKING, THE TOWN BOARD WANTS TO KNOW THE FINAL IMPACT, THE FI THE FISCAL IMPACTS OF THE DECISION THEY'RE MAKING.
IT'S UP TO THE TOWN BOARD TO DECIDE.
ALL WE CAN DO IS JUST GIVE YOU THE NUMBER MM-HMM.
AND THAT'S WHAT NUMBER ONE IS ABOUT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, WHAT IS OVER 10 YEARS, 15 AND 20 YEAR TIMEFRAMES, THE FINANCIAL IMPACTS OF CHOOSING THE 1 59 TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVE.
WE, WE FOCUSED ON THAT BECAUSE WE JUST ASSUMED IT'S NOT EVEN REALISTIC FOR MANY ONES THINKING ABOUT 175, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMMENT.
UH, SO ANYWAY, UM, BUT WE COMMENT IF LIKE, IF YOU'D LIKE US TO CAPITALIZE, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW THE NUMBER FROM 80, AND IF YOU'D LIKE US TO CAPITALIZE IT, WE WILL DO IT.
IF IT WOULD ASSIST THE TOWN BOARD IN MAKING, UH, UH, IF YOU LIKE US TO PREVENT, PRESENT A CAPITALIZATION ANALYSIS, WE'LL DO IT IN A SUPPLEMENTAL, UH, FINDING AND, UH, BE VERY SHORT AND ASK MARGARET TO DO IT.
AND, UH, IF YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE OF ASSISTANCE TO THE TOWN BOARD IN MAKING ITS DECISION.
SO, UH, TO KEN'S POINT, I DON'T, I GET THAT IT'S OPEN SPACE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED UNDEVELOPED LAND BECAUSE THE PROPERTY HAS DRIVEWAYS AND UTILITIES AND IT'S BEEN DEVELOPED.
SO I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT.
NO, BUT WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT UNDEVELOPED RAW LAND, IF YOU THINK ABOUT, IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR TAX BILL, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE AN ASSESSED VALUATION FOR THE LAND AND ASSESSED VALUATION FOR THE HOUSE, AND THE ASSESSED VALUATION FOR THE LAND, WHERE THEY ARRIVE AT THAT, AND SINCE WE ARE NEIGHBORS IS BECAUSE WE'RE LIVING IN AN AREA WHERE WE HAVE SEWERS, WE HAVE WATER, WE HAVE GAS LINES.
FOR INSTANCE, I THINK WHERE LIZ LIVES, THERE AREN'T GAS LINES THOUGH.
SHE'S IN A, IN A LAND WHERE, AN AREA WHERE LAND SELLS FOR MORE BECAUSE OF THE EDGEMONT SCHOOL DISTRICT.
SO WHAT I MUST, WHAT I UNDERSTAND, AND THIS IS I UNDERSTAND QUOTES, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE, WHEN, WHEN EDIE COMES UP WITH, WHEN WE DID THE BIG REVAL WITH THE VALUE PER ACRE FOR THE LAND, IT'S BASED ON A COMBINATION OF THINGS LIKE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, HOW MUCH THE LAND HAS, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU CAN GO IN AND BUILD A HOUSE, YOU KNOW, PUT THE SPADE IN THE GROUND AND EVERYTHING IS THERE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS LAND, YES, WHERE THE, THE ACTUAL TOWNHOUSES ARE, IS DEVELOPED, BUT YOU HAVE THIS BIG, HUGE PIECE OF LAND THAT I COULD SEE SOMEONE COMING IN AND SAYING, WELL, WE WANNA BE
[00:35:01]
ASSESSED AS EMPTY LAND BECAUSE IT ISN'T DEVELOPED LAND.NOW WE'D BE, I THIS WAS A QUICK PHONE CALL WITH ED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY.
IT COULD BE, WHEN EDIE THINKS ABOUT IT, SHE HAS A DIFFERENT OPINION ON IT.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'VE DONE ON OTHER PS, BUT IT RAISED AN ISSUE THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED.
ACTUALLY, THAT WAS, THAT WAS A GREAT EXAMPLE AND IT MADE ME THINK OF MY OWN PROPERTY.
YOU KNOW, MY, MY HOUSE IS ON THREE LOTS AND THE, THE, THE LOT WITH THE HOUSE ON IT SITS IN BETWEEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THREE LOTS.
AND THE TAX BILL FOR THE, THE, THE LAND WITH THE HOUSE ON IT IS I THINK 17 TIMES WHAT THE TAX BILL IS FOR THE LOTS ON EITHER SIDE OF IT.
AND THEY CLEARLY, THEY'RE CLEARLY IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEVELOPED SUBDIVISION, BUT THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE JUST DON'T HAVE A HOUSE ON THEM.
BUT, BUT THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY CONSIDERED UNDEVELOPED BECAUSE OF THE TAX DIFFERENCE.
WELL, I SAY, I DUNNO, BECAUSE I GUESS WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR TAX BILL, I USUALLY BREAK OUT THE HOUSE FROM THE LAND ON THE ASSESSMENT MM-HMM.
SO, BUT, BUT, BUT YES, I JUST THINK, I THINK THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT ONE THAT WE HAVE AN ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF MM-HMM.
AND IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE A C, AGAIN, I VOLUNTEERING MARGARET, IF YOU'D LIKE MARGARET TO TELL YOU WHAT'S THE IMPACT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE OVER 10, 15, 20 YEARS, UH, WE WOULD ASK MARGARET TO DO THAT, UH, CONSISTENT WITH HER, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, SQUEEZING IT IN, IN A PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE.
I DO KNOW, UM, ON PROJECTS THAT ARE LARGER SITES, IT'S EVEN POSSIBLE FOR, UM, THE OWNER TO GO TO SOMEPLACE LIKE THE WESTCHESTER LAND TRUST AND PROMISE TO NEVER BUILD ON THAT LAND.
SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD DO.
AND THEN YOU'RE RIGHT, THE TAXES WOULD BE LOWER.
SO WHERE ARE WE? NUMBER THREE NOW? NUMBER THREE, UH, REQUIRED RECREATIONAL LAND TRANSFER.
KEN, DID YOU HAVE A QUICK RUN THROUGH NUMBER THREE? OR IF NOT, MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST HOLD ON FOR TWO MINUTES.
LET THEY, THIS IS ALSO ANOTHER THING, JUST LIKE THE OTHER STUFF WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, WE'RE NOT SURE THIS, WHAT'S
YOU WANNA TAKE A QUICK RUN? JUST WE'LL BE QUIET FOR TWO MINUTES.
TAKE A QUICK RUN THROUGH THREE.
YEAH, LET'S JUST BE QUIET FOR A COUPLE MINUTES AND, UH, THESE THREE ARE THE BIGGEST, MOST IMPORTANT.
SO THE, THE KEY, WHAT THEY DID, KEN, IS UM, THEY TOOK THE PRICE OF THE LAND, WHICH
[00:40:01]
WE WERE TOLD, I THINK IT WAS GARRETT THAT TOLD US, SOMEONE TOLD US $13 MILLION, IT MUST HAVE BEEN GARRETT.THEY, AND THEY DIVIDED BY 1 0 6, IT COMES OUT ROUND FIGURES, 122,000 AN ACRE MM-HMM.
AND THEY SAID, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA GIVE, YOU KNOW, X ACRES TO THE, AND THAT'S HOW THEY VALUED THE LAND THEY WERE GIVING TO THE TOWN FOR RECREATIONAL USE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S INFORMATION IN THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS OR, OR SOMETHING, I FORGET WHAT IT SAYS, YOU KNOW, 40, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE LINE LAND THAT'S UNDER OR BUDDING THESE BIG TRANSMISSION LINES, I MEAN, NOT THE STUFF THAT COMES TO THE HOUSE OR RUNS DOWN THE STREET, BUT, YOU KNOW, THOSE BIG, BIG THINGS THAT ARE THE TRANSMISSION LINES, THE VALUE OF THAT LAND DROPS ABOUT 45%.
NOW THEN WHAT SAID WAS SHE WENT ON THE TOWN WEBSITE.
NOW, ON THE TOWN WEBSITE, SHE FOUND TWO OTHER PROPERTIES UNDER THE VERY SAME CONED TRANSITION TRANSMISSION LINES AS THE ELMWOOD PROPERTY, TWO OTHER PROPERTIES ON DOBBS FERRY ROAD.
AND ONE WAS, I DON'T KNOW, ONE WAS ABOUT 75, 73, 73, AND THE OTHER WAS 3000 AN ACRE, WHICH IS BOTH OF WHICH ARE BELOW 122.
SO IF YOU JUST AVERAGE THOSE, YOU KNOW, 75 AND 85, YOU COME OUT WITH EIGHT, I MEAN, 75 AND 95, YOU COME OUT WITH 85.
SO JUST USING AN AVERAGE OF, UM, OF, UM, 85,000 ACRES, WHAT IS A FAIR VALUATION FOR THE LAND THAT ABUTS THE CONED, UH, BIG TRANSMISSION, HIGH VOLTAGE TRANSMISSION LINES.
UM, AND THEN YOU, UM, UM, YOU LOOK AT THIS NUMBER, THE 1 59 TOWNHOUSE PROPOSAL, UM, INSTEAD OF THE 8.6 THAT THEY PROPOSED TO TRANSFER TO THE TOWN, IT'S NOT GIVE TO THE TOWN OR DONATE TO THE TOWN.
'CAUSE IT'S A LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT THEY TRANSFERRED, THAT THEY REQUIRED THE, THE, THE MINIMUM REQUIRED LEGAL TRANSFER IS NOT 8.6, IT'S 11.4.
SO IT SEEMED TO BE, AGAIN, US AGAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE C A C CAN'T GIVE YOU A, UH, I MEAN, WE CAN POINT OUT THE ISSUE OF THE TOWN BOARD.
THE C A C CAN'T GIVE YOU A FAIR LAND VALUATION BECAUSE THAT'S BEYOND OUR EXPERTISE.
UM, BUT WE SUGGEST THE TOWN BOARD GET A INDEPENDENT, UH, REAL ESTATE APPRAISER TO SAY WHAT'S THE, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE, UM, RIGHT PRICE FOR, FOR, FOR LAND, FOR THIS LAND THAT'S UNDER THE HAY MARKET, UM, THAT, UM, WHAT'S, UH, THE RIGHT PRICE FOR THE LAND THAT'S, UH, BUDDING THE, THESE BIG, UH, HIGH VOLTAGE TRANSMISSION LINES.
AND THEN THAT WILL DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF REQUIRED TRANSFER.
UH, THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT ALL, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU KNOW, AT THE GRACE, THE DEVELOPER THAT HE JUST IN THIS LAND, THIS IS, THERE'S A STATUTORY REQUIREMENT AND, AND, I DON'T KNOW, TWO 50 DASH 19 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OF THE TOWN CODE.
KEN COMMENTS OR ANYONE COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? I'M HOME.
THANK YOU FOR BEING A TROOPER TO LISTEN TO THIS ON NO WORRIES ON THE TRAIN, NO LESS.
AND IF YOU'LL JUST SEND TERRY AND GEORGE AND I, WHAT'S A GOOD TIME TOMORROW AFTERNOON AND THEN THE FOURTH.
I, I, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE A 10 O'CLOCK IN D END, DEPENDING ON THE WEATHER GETTING BACK.
I'M THINKING AROUND ONE, BUT I'LL KNOW BETTER AS THE MORNING.
WHATEVER, WHATEVER'S GONNA MAKE IT 2, 3, 4, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
UH, WELL, KEN, I MEAN, WAS THAT FRAMEWORK OF WHAT THIS THREE ABOUT, OR WAS THAT COGENT? I MEAN, I'M NOT ASKING YOU TO AGREE WITH ANYTHING JUST, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING YOU THINK WE SHOULD ADD OR EXPLAIN BETTER OR SOMETHING? UM, NO, IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE TO ME.
UM, I IS, DOES THE, AND, AND AGAIN, I, I APOLOGIZE FOR MY DEARTH OF KNOWLEDGE IN THIS AREA, BUT IS IT, IS IT IS, DOES THE LAW THAT REQUIRES THE TRANSFER, UM, AS RECREATIONAL LAND, UM, STIPULATE THAT IT'S
[00:45:01]
BASED ON THE VALUE? WHERE, WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? THAT, THAT IT'S BASED ON THE VALUE OF THE LAND RATHER THAN ANYTHING ELSE? IT, WELL, 2 50 19, LEMME PULL IT OUT.LEMME TAKE A, LEMME TAKE A FEW.
I WOULD MAKE, MAKE THE NOTE, KEN.
WELL, MIKE IS LOOKING FOR THIS, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE USE THE EXAMPLE HERE OF THE ALTERNATIVE H WHICH IS THE 113 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
BUT ACTUALLY THIS AFFECTS EVERY ONE OF THE ALTERNATIVES.
FOR INSTANCE, IF THERE'S THE SENSE THAT THE APPLICANT IS GIVING YOU, UH, ADDITIONAL LAND OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS, YOU REALLY SHOULD KNOW WHAT YOU'RE ENTITLED TO.
THAT'S KIND OF THE BASIS OF MY QUESTION.
I MEAN THAT, THAT, THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE WERE COMING FROM, IS THAT, LET'S, LET'S REALLY USE, DO THIS ACCORDING TO WHAT THE LAW SAYS AND WHAT'S A FAIR ESTIMATE FOR THE VALUE OF THE LAND.
YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU CAN READ THE STATUTE AS WELL AS I CAN, BUT, UH, YOU, YOU CAN READ THE STATUTE, THE AMOUNT OF LAND IS EQUAL VALUE TO MONEY.
THE AMOUNT OF MONEY, ABOUT TWO OR THREE SENTENCES LATER, THEY FINALLY TELL YOU IS 4,320 PER UNIT FOR A, UH, SO IF, HERE'S THE FORMULA.
IF YOU DEVELOP, IF YOU MULTIPLY 1 5 9, WHICH IS THE AMOUNT OF THE 159 TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVE BY 4,320, YOU COME OUT WITH 6 86 8, 8 8.
NOW THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GIVE LAND EQUAL TO THAT.
WELL, MIKE, I THINK YOU USED THE WRONG, YOU USED THE PUD NUMBER.
IT'S 8,000 FOR THE SINGLE FAMILY.
I SCREWED UP AS YOU SAID, THAT'S WHY YOU BECAME A LAWYER.
THE, THE, UM, THE, THE, THE FORMULA IS, UH, FOR, FOR SINGLE FAMILY, IT'S 8 8 6 4 0 8 6 4 OH, WHICH IS TWICE THE TOWNHOUSE NUMBER.
SO IF YOU, UM, UM, IF YOU MULTIPLY, IF YOU MULTIPLY ONE 13, THIS IS AN AN H WHERE THEY PROPOSE 8.6 TO GET TO DONATE 8.6 OR TO, IF YOU DO, IF YOU MULTIPLY ONE 13 TIMES 8, 6 4, OH, IT'S ONE 13, WHICH IS THE SINGLE FAMILIES IN H TIMES 8, 6 4, OH, YOU COME OUT WITH 9 7 6 3 2 0 970 $6,320.
AND THEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO GIVE LAND EQUAL TO THAT.
NOW, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT LAND'S WORTH IS, I MEAN, IT'S NOT THE, IT'S NOT UP TO THE APPLICANT TO SAY HOW MUCH LAND IS WORTH.
UM, AND THERE'S EMPIRICAL DATA THAT LAND THAT ABUTS A TRANSMISSION LINE SELLS FOR LESS.
UM, SO THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT WHAT THAT LAND IS WORTH IS TO ASK AN INDEPENDENT, AN INDEPENDENT, UH, REAL ESTATE PERSON.
NOW, WHAT TERRY AND I DID, JUST TO COMPLETE THE THOUGHT THAT'S IN THIS THING, IS WE SAID, OKAY, YOU TAKE ONE 13 TIMES 8 6 4 OH, AND THAT'S 9 7 6 3 20.
AND WE TOOK THE AVERAGE OF THE TWO OTHER PROPERTIES, AND THIS IS FROM THE RECORDS OF THE TOWN, UM, UH, ONE 75,000 ONES, 95,000 FROM THE RECORDS OF THE TOWN UNDER THE SAME TRANSMISSION LINE.
AND IT'S 85 AVERAGED ROUGHLY 85,000.
SO IF YOU DIVIDE SEVEN, I'M SORRY, IF YOU DIVIDE 9, 7, 6, 3, 2 OH DIVIDED BY 85,000, YOU COME OUT WITH 11.4 ACRES AND MARGARET'S SHAKING HER HEAD UP AND DOWN, WHICH MEANS WE MUST HAVE DONE THE MATH.
AND, UH, SO, UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I I MEAN, LOOK, IF, IF AN APPLICANT COULD COME IN AND SAY, OH, YOU KNOW, IT'S IT
[00:50:02]
ANYWAY, IT'S JUST, IT'S NOT, IT, IT HAS TO BE THE WORDS.UM, THE AMOUNT OF LAND SHALL BE EQUAL IN VALUE.
IT CAN'T BE THE APPLICANT'S CHOICE TO DETERMINE THE VALUE OF THE LAND.
IT'S GOTTA BE WHAT IT IN FACT IS THE VALUE OF THE LAND.
UH, I MEAN, THAT'S HOW, I MEAN, IF ANYONE READS IT DIFFERENTLY, I SUPPOSE THERE COULD BE A DISCUSSION AT THE TOWN BOARD LEVEL.
UH, BUT I, I DON'T, WE CERTAINLY DIDN'T READ IT THAT IT WAS UP TO THE APPLICANT TO, TO MAKE THAT DECISION.
IT SEEMED TO ME IT SHOULD HAVE SEEMED JUSTICE, SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMPIRICAL.
AND, AND AS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT REALLY GOES TO ALL THE OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO HAVE AN EVALUATION OF THEM THAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING AT WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES ON EACH ONE TO BE HAPPENING.
NO, IT'S, THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING.
I FIND THAT TO BE VERY INTERESTING.
LIKE TERRY HAD A DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, WITH ED.
UH, TERRY AND I BOTH HAD A DISCUSSION WITH JERRY, AND I THINK SOMEWHERE IN THAT DISCUSSION WITH JERRY, HE WAS SAYING SOMETHING ABOUT STATE LAW SAYS THIS OR THAT IT'S NOT A STATE LAW ISSUE.
I MEAN, THIS IS IN THE TOWN CODE.
UH, GEORGE, DONNA ALFRED, UH, UH, SHARON, UH, NANCY, ANY QUESTIONS ON THIS? NUMBER THREE.
THEN I THINK NUMBER FOUR, RESIDENTIAL DENSITY.
I THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH A LITTLE THE REST OR FASTER, BUT, UH, YEAH.
UH, ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT RESIDENTIAL DENSITY? I THINK WE HAVE A, WELL, THIS POINTS OUT, WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES IN TERMS OF THE COUNTY'S MASTER PLAN FOR THE COUNTY, FOR THE TOWN'S MASTER PLAN THAT WAS DONE.
UM, WE ARE JUST LOOKING AT A LOT OF DISCREPANCY BETWEEN PLANS, WHICH IS CONCERNING.
'CAUSE I DON'T, I HAVE A QUESTION.
HAVING BEEN ON THE MASTER PLAN COMMITTEE, AT WHAT POINT DO WE REALLY NEED TO GO IN AND CHANGE THE MASTER PLAN IF WE DO SOME OF THESE THINGS? I THINK ONE OF THE INTERESTING ONES WAS THAT WE BASICALLY IN THE MASTER PLAN SAID WE WOULD BE DOING NO MORE PUDS AND WE HAVE NO, UH, P DISTRICTS SHOWN ON ELMWOOD, AND YET NOW WE HAVE A PROPOSAL TO, TO CHANGE THAT.
AND WE HAVE A WESTCHESTER COUNTY MASTER PLAN THAT, AND A, AN OPINION BY WESTCHESTER COUNTY NOT TO INCREASE THE DENSITY.
WE AND THE MASTER PLAN INDICATED WE WERE NOT GONNA INCREASE DENSITY IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES.
SO WE'RE REALLY FACING QUITE A BIT OF, UH, MASTER PLAN TOWN OF GREENBURG MASTER PLAN, UH, CHANGES, WHICH I THINK HAS TO REALLY BE ADDRESSED IN TERMS OF, UM, IF WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THE MASTER PLAN TO THIS POINT, SHOULD WE BE GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS OF, OF AMENDING THE MASTER PLAN? MM-HMM.
FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A SITE IN, WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY C C D C WHAT THE DENSITY IS IN THE EXISTING ZONE.
I THINK THEY THINKS 119 SINGLE DIAMOND PASSES AND THIS SITE, AND IT'S, IT'S QUOTED IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF 4.2, FINDING 4.2.
THERE ARE NO, I MEAN, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'RE A TRIAL LAWYER.
I MEAN NO, IT'S HARD TO ARGUE THAT, OH, THAT NO IS AN AMBIGUOUS WORD, YOU KNOW? RIGHT.
IT, IT, IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT, IT IS A PRETTY CLEAR SIGNAL.
THERE ARE NO, WE'RE NOT GONNA INCREASE IT.
AND THEN AS TER, AND THEN, AND THEN WHEN YOU GET TO THE POD, WHICH YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CLUSTER THE HOUSES, SO YOU PRESERVE OPEN SPACE.
THERE IS A PUD, THIS IS IN FOUR THREE, THERE IS A P UH, A DENSITY BONUS FOR PUTS.
BUT THE TOWN BOARD ALREADY DEFINED THAT AND LIMITED IT.
AND WE'VE BEEN TOLD BY C D N C THAT THE, USING THE FORMULA THAT'S IN THE STATUTE, THAT THE TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVE WITH THE DENSITY BONUS, BUT DOING A PART IN PRESERVING THE OPEN SPACE IS 126 UNITS.
[00:55:01]
IT'S NOT, IT'S, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN, UM, DO A PART AND YOU CAN DO WHATEVER IN TERMS OF, OF, UH, OF, OF, UM, DWELLING UNITS.UH, IT'S, IT'S ALREADY BEEN DEFINED.
IT'S ALREADY BEEN TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT BY THE TOWN BOARD WHEN THEY DID THE PUDS.
AND THEN YOU GET, AS TERRY WAS SAYING, THE, THE, UH, THERE'S A MAP IN THE, THIS IS FOUR FOUR, YOU GET A MAP IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT SAYS WHERE PUDS ARE GONNA BE, AND THERE AIN'T NO PUD IN, UM, AND ELMWOOD MM-HMM.
AND AGAIN, NO, IT AIN'T, WELL, IF THE SPECIAL CASES WE, AND YOU KNOW, YOU'D HAVE TO AMEND THE ZONING LAW ALSO TO PUT A PUT HERE, BECAUSE A PUT IS, UH, IS NOT, IS NOT A, UH, AUTHORIZED USE IN AN R 20 OR R 30 ZONE.
THEY DON'T EVEN ASK FOR YOU TO DO THAT.
BUT, UH, YOU'D HAVE TO AMEND THE, UH, ZONING LAWS, UH, TO, TO ALLOW PUDS HERE, BECAUSE THE PUD STATUTE SAYS WHERE, WHAT ZONES PUD CAN BE IN, AND AIN'T NONE OF 'EM GOT AN R IN FRONT OF US.
NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE, MIKE, I DON'T THINK.
BECAUSE IT'S NOT MULTI-FAMILY.
ALL THE OTHER PODS WE'VE HAD PUTS IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES IN THE PAST IN, IN R I BELIEVE SO.
I THINK STONE OAKS IS IN AN R OR AN M AN R.
WELL, THAT AIN'T WHAT, THAT AIN'T WHAT THE ZONING LAW SAID.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY, AGAIN, I'M NOT, ANYWAY, THAT, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE BIGGEST DETAIL.
I MEAN, THAT'S A DETAIL AS TO, BUT IF YOU WANT TO AUTHORIZE WHETHER YOU HAVE TO DO ANYTHING OR NOT, BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THEY, YOU KNOW, THIS COMPOUNDED DENSITY HERE, THEY WANNA INCREASE THE DENSITY OVER WHAT'S IN OUR ZONING CODE IN OUR 29 30, THEN THEY WANT TO HAVE A PUD AND INCREASE THE DENSITY BEYOND THE PUD BONUS ANYWAY.
IT, IT'S A COMPOUNDED, UM, UM, UH, TAKE OF LAND, UH, INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF UNITS, INCREASE, INCREASE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE.
ANYBODY ELSE, ANYTHING BEFORE WE MOVE TO FIVE? I THINK THAT'S PRETTY SELF-EXPLANATORY.
THERE'S JUST SOMETHING MISSING THERE.
UM, AND AGAIN, WITH THE NO ACTION ONE THERE, THAT'S REALLY MISSING FOR A COMPARISON NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, I THINK, UM, THERE ARE REAL ISSUES THERE IN TERMS OF WHAT RESIDENTIAL.
ONE OF THE CONCERNS PEOPLE HAD WHEN WE WERE DOING THE MASTER PLAN, WE WENT AROUND THE COMMUNITY, WAS THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND THERE WAS A REAL FEELING THAT THE TOWNHOUSES REALLY DIDN'T FIT IN IN TERMS OF LOOK AND FEEL IN, IN THE RESIDENTIAL ZONES.
UH, THAT I THINK HAD BEEN EXPRESSED A GREAT DEAL WHEN WE DID THE OUTREACH TO THE COMMUNITIES.
AND I THINK NUMBER EIGHT, AND I WANNA STOP THERE.
DID ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON SIX OR SEVEN? WELL, I JUST WANTED TO SAY WITH RESPECT TO SEVEN, I THINK THAT THE BUILDING OF THAT, THAT ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY, WHICH TO ME DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A RESIDENTIAL FACILITY, BUT LOOKS LIKE A COMMERCIAL FACILITY REALLY DID CHANGE THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER AS IT EXISTED BEFORE IT WAS BUILT.
I MEAN, BUT MAYBE THAT'S JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S A FAIR COMMENT.
BUT, BUT YOU HAVE TO ALSO REMEMBER THAT WAS SORT OF ALSO SOMETHING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAD A PUT UP WITH AND TRIED TO MAKE PEACE ON.
I THINK IT'S SORT OF LIKE, IF, IF YOU, IT'S ALMOST LIKE SAYING, YOU, YOU LET THIS HAPPEN, SO NOW WE'RE GONNA PENALIZE YOU FOR LETTING THIS HAPPEN, KEN.
I MEAN, SO THIS GETS INTO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE SINCE KIND OF STRENGTHENED UP AND REDUCED THE NUMBER OF ASSISTED LIVING THAT ARE COMING IN, SO MM-HMM.
WELL, I MEAN, YOU CAN, IN AN RZ ZONE, YOU CAN GET BY SPECIAL PERMIT A SENIOR FACILITY.
ISN'T THAT RIGHT? AGAIN, IN AN NAZ ZONE? I THINK YOU CAN, UH, YEAH, I BELIEVE, YEAH.
SO I MEAN THAT, I MEAN, NOW YOUR COMMENT THEN IS, WELL, IF YOU'RE GONNA LET, THAT'S A FAIR COMMENT.
IF YOU'RE GONNA LET, UM, WELL, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT CAN COME INTO OUR ZONE.
[01:00:01]
YOU CAN HAVE SENIOR FACILITIES, YOU CAN HAVE CHURCH, YOU CAN HAVE SCHOOLS, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE ARE A FEW OTHERS I DON'T KNOW, BUT THOSE ARE THE PRINCIPAL ONES.YOU CAN HAVE A SENIOR FACILITY, YOU CAN HAVE A CHURCH, UH, YOU CAN HAVE A SCHOOL.
UM, AND THE QUESTION IS, AND IT'S A CLOSE, IT'S A CLOSER QUESTION THAN I THINK THE FUNDS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING.
IT'S A FAIR, A FAIR COMMENTARY.
WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE THINGS THAT ARE PERMITTED BY SPECIAL PERMIT IN AN R ZONE SUCH AS A CHURCH OR SCHOOL OR, OR A SENIOR FACILITY, HOW DOES THAT IMPACT THE ANALYSIS OF WHAT'S COMMUNITY CHARACTER? I MEAN, I, THAT'S A FAIR QUESTION, BUT, AND I THINK THE FAIR QUESTION THERE TOO IS BY ALLOWING THOSE, HAVE YOU PENALIZED THE COMMUNITY AND ARE YOU GONNA CONTINUE TO PENALIZE THEM? MM-HMM.
I MEAN, THAT'S, UH, YOU KNOW, THEN WHAT IS IT? YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU, WE PUT ONE THING IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THEN WE'RE GONNA DO SPIRAL THROUGH OTHERS.
SO YEAH, IT'S A BIT, IT'S SOMETHING I THINK WORTH CONSIDERING AND TALKING ABOUT.
UM, NUMBER EIGHT, AND I THINK THIS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT ONE, I FEEL IS AN EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT ONE.
AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH CREATION OF A NEW ZONING BASELINE FOR THE REMAINING 700 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE.
AND, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY IN THE ISSUE OF DENSITY, THIS, AND MAYBE MIKE, YOU WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS ONE? BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS A REALLY BIGGIE.
I THINK WE'VE PUT IT IN THE BACK, BUT I THINK IT'S A REALLY A, A MAJOR ISSUE.
YOU, I MEAN, ONE OF THE ELEMENTARY PRINCIPLES OF ZONING IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T SAY TO, UH, TO KEN REALTY COMPANY THAT HE CAN DO SOMETHING AND THEN TERRY REALTY COMES UP, SAYS, I WANNA DO SOMETHING KINDA LIKE THAT.
UH, TERRY REALTY, UH, EVEN THOUGH WE LET KEN REALTY DO IT, UH, IT'S, IT'S CALLED ZONING DISCRIMINATION.
AND, UH, YOU HAVE TO TREAT, UH, EVERYONE IN THE PUBLIC, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, UNLESS THERE'S SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES WHY THINGS ARE DIFFERENTLY.
IF YOU LET ONE PERSON DO SOMETHING, YOU GOTTA LET OTHER PEOPLE DO SOMETHING.
AND SO WE GOT A, WE GOT 130 ACRES OF OPEN SPACE, UH, ACCORDING TO THE COMPANY, THAT'S A PLAN.
AND, UM, MOST OF THEM ARE GOLF COURSES, OR ONE OF 'EM IS A SWIMMING CLUB, WHICH IS ALREADY CLOSED.
I MEAN, MOST GOLF CLUBS COURSES ARE IN TROUBLE.
WE KNOW NORWOOD, UH, HAS FINANCIAL ISSUES BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THEY WERE TRYING TO DO THE DEAL TO HAVE A BATTERY AND JUST ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEM AT NORWOOD.
WE KNOW, UM, UM, UM, WHAT'S THE NAME? UM, METROPOLIS WAS, WAS IN TROUBLE OR IS IS IN TROUBLE.
THAT'S WHY THEY SOLD OFF SOME LAND AND, UM, UH, RENT, LEASE AND LAND, UM, WHAT IT WAS TO, UH, THIS, UH, SENIOR, UH, HOUSING FACILITY, PRESUMABLY, YOU KNOW, ALMOST EVERY GOLF COURSE IS GOT SOME FINANCIAL ISSUES EXCEPT REALLY, REALLY THE TOP, TOP, TOP, TOP, TOP TIER, UM, YOU KNOW, OF, OF, OF GOLF COURSES.
AND, UH, SO WE GOT THESE, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY COMING ON THE MARKET, UH, 700 MORE ACRES.
AND SO WHATEVER WE DO HERE, IF WE LET DENSITY GETTING INCREASED BY ONE DOWN ZONING FROM, UH, UH, UH, R 30 TO R 20 AND INCREASE THE DENSITY THAT WAY, AND THEN PUT A PUT ON IT AND INCREASE WHAT IS THE ALREADY DEFINED, UH, DENSITY BONUS, THERE'S LIKE, THERE'S NO WAY THAT IT, NO REASONABLE WAY TO BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD NOT NOT BE REQUIRED TO DO THE SAME THING IN THE OTHER 700 ACRES.
AND SO THEN WHAT'S THE IMPACT OF THAT THROUGHOUT THE TOWN? MM-HMM.
AND, AND ONE OF THE THINGS, KEN, THAT BOTHERED ME ON THIS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DID THE MASTER PLAN, THERE WAS A WHOLE SECTION THAT HAD TO DO WITH INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE WAS BASED ON THE DENSITY EXPECTATIONS OF THIS LAND BEING DEVELOPED AS ZONED WITH THE DENSITY ON IT.
SO WE CAN RUN INTO THINGS WHERE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS GOING TO BE OVERSTRESSED.
WE KNOW THE ROADS IN ITSELF, THE ROADS IN OUR TOWN ARE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE DENSITY BECAUSE WE ALSO ARE PAST YOU THROUGH COMMUNITY WHEN PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO BYPASS, UM, TRAFFIC USING THE HIGHWAY.
SO IT REALLY BECOMES AN ISSUE OF IF WE DON'T CONTROL THE DENSITY, WHICH I THINK WAS BACK OF THE COUNTY'S MASTER PLAN, WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE ROAD STRUCTURE TO HANDLE ANY MORE DENSITY.
SO IT IS A REAL CONCERN THAT YOU'RE SETTING SOMETHING IN MOTION THAT HAS MUCH MORE IMPACT THAN ON THIS JUST ONE SITE.
ERIC, MAY I, MAY I ADD SOMETHING? SURE.
UM, ONE THING THAT WE HAVE NOT SAID HERE, I THINK IT GOES UNDERSTOOD, BUT WE MIGHT WANNA SAY IS, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A DIRECT LINK BETWEEN INCREASED DENSITY, INCREASED AIR POLLUTION,
[01:05:01]
NOISE POLLUTION, LIGHT POLLUTION, YOU NAME IT, IT'S THE, IT'S VERY WELL DOCUMENTED BY THE E P A, BY NASA.UM, I THINK WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC TO REMEMBER.
THAT'S WHY WE WANNA LIMIT IT TO BEGIN WITH.
THAT'S A, THAT THOSE ARE, THAT THOSE ARE GREAT.
WHICH GOES TO WHY PEOPLE WANT THE TYPE OF ZONING IN THESE AREAS.
'CAUSE THEY'RE REALLY, THEY'RE HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS AND I WANT TO LIVE IN A, IN A BETTER COMBINATION SORT OF SITUATION.
SO, AND IT'S SORT OF A PROMISE TO PEOPLE WHEN THEIR PLACE IS ZONED THAT THIS IS THEIR EXPECTATION OF WHAT THEY HAVE PURCHASED IN THE COMMUNITY.
ANYTHING MORE ON EIGHT? UH, UH, MARGARET, WHERE DO YOU WANNA PUT THAT PUT THAT HERE IN, IN EIGHT.
THAT'S, THAT'S MY, UH, OR MAYBE WE PUT IT IN THE SECTION WHERE WE FOUR, WHERE WE TALK ABOUT DENSITY.
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF DENSITY INCREASE.
WHERE ARE YOU, TERRY? WELL, I THINK WE'RE UP TO NUMBER NINE.
UM, I THINK WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT HERE IS, UM, JUST A CONCERN REALLY.
I THINK ABOUT WAS IT VIABLE FOR SOMEONE WHO MET THE METRICS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO MEET AND BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY PURCHASE SOMETHING, WHETHER, WHETHER THIS COULD ACTUALLY BE DONE IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.
THAT, I THINK THAT WAS OUR QUESTION, WAS, AGAIN, THIS IS A MATH QUESTION.
THIS SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A, A, A REAL STRETCH IN TERMS OF HEATING THE UNIT AND, YOU KNOW, UM, AND THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT AREN'T, LIKE SOMETHING LIKE UTILITIES AND, AND HEAT ARE NOT CONSIDERED, I THINK, IN THE EQUATION WHERE YOU COME UP WITH THE NUMBER.
BUT I THINK SINCE THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE CONED BILLS THIS MONTH, UM, IT WAS A CONCERN THAT COULD WHOEVER DEVELOPED THIS LAND, SINCE THE PERSON WHO IS CURRENTLY DOING THIS IS NOT ACTUALLY BUILDING THE TOWNHOUSES, COULD THEY MEET ACTUALLY DOING THIS? SO I THINK THERE WAS TWO THINGS.
WE HAD A CONCERN, WAS IT REALLY DOABLE? WAS COULD THE PERSON WHO EVENTUALLY ACTUALLY BUILDS THE HOUSES BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH UNITS? AND THEN GIVEN THE SIZE OF THE UNITS AND HAVING THEM NOT, YOU KNOW, HAVING, TRYING TO MAKE THEM FIT INTO THE COMMUNITY, WERE THEY UNITS THAT SOMEONE WHO WAS GONNA QUALIFY FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WAS GONNA ADD, ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO FINANCIALLY DEMAND MM-HMM.
THAT'S A REALLY INTERESTING QUESTION, JOE.
JOE, WHAT, WHAT, UH, DO YOU WANNA THINK? I, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOU ARE IN YOUR RESEARCH.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA MAKE ANY COMMENT NOW OR NOT, OR, AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO.
IF, IF YOU'RE NOT THERE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE NOT
I, I JUST RETURNED LAST NIGHT, SO I HAVE VERY LITTLE RESEARCH ON IT.
AND, UH, I'VE BEEN TRAVELING PROBABLY, UH, RESEARCHING THIS BEGINNING, UH, BEGINNING TOMORROW.
WE, WE'VE HAD SOME PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS ON IT, MIKE AND, AND TERRY AND I, I KNOW WHAT, WHAT IS EXPECTED, AND I'LL, UH, I'LL GET BACK TO YOU WITHIN A COUPLE OF DAYS WITH, UH, INFORMATION THIS POINT.
I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT, THAT WOULD BE MEANINGFUL TO ADD.
KIM, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS, CAN SOMEONE REALLY, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE TOWN CODE SAYS THAT YOUR PRINCIPAL INTEREST, TAXES AND INSURANCE CAN'T EXCEED MORE THAN 30% OF THE WEST MEDIUM INCOME WESTCHESTER MEDIAN INCOME.
SO THE WESTCHESTER MEDIUM INCOME THAT WE COULD FIND PUBLIC INFORMATION ABOUT FOR T WAS FOR 2020 IS, THE LATEST WE COULD FIND WAS $101,000.
SO JUST USING A HUNDRED OF THOUSANDS AROUND FAILURE.
SO IT'S, IT, YOUR, YOUR, UM, PRINCIPAL, I MEAN, PRE PEOPLE PRESUMABLY HAVE A MORTGAGE.
SO YOUR PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST, UH, ON THE MORTGAGE.
SO YOU, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MIKE, IF, IF I CAN JUMP IN AS, AS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT'S JUST THAT IN ORDER TO BE QUALIFIED TO BE, UH, ELIGIBLE FOR AN AFFORDABLE MORTGAGE STATUS, YOU HAVE A CEILING OF
[01:10:01]
APPROXIMATELY $30,000 OF INCOME.BUT WE'LL LOOK AT THE, THE, THE NET, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NET AMOUNT, AND WE'LL SEE HOW THAT FITS INTO EVEN BEING ABLE TO HOLD A MORTGAGE OF WHAT THEY CALL $265,000 AND ALL THE MENTS THAT GO ALONG WITH IT.
AND I'LL AGAIN, PUT TOGETHER IN THE NEXT DAY OR TWO $30,000 OF, UH, OF EXPENSES.
I, I, I THINK AT, AT, YOU KNOW, WITH JUST TAKING A CURSORY LOOK AT IT, I, I DON'T SEE HOW ANYBODY WHO FITS THE DEFINITION OF BEING ELIGIBLE FOR, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING CAN, UH, CARRY THE LOAD OF WHAT WOULD BE A $265,000 PURCHASE, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL HAVE THE NUMBERS SOON.
AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE WHICH COMES UP IS THE 265, I MEAN, THESE HOUSES SUPPOSED TO SELL FOR WHAT? UH, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW.
I THINK THEY USED THE NUMBER 800,000.
SO THE TOWNHOUSE IS GONNA BE 80% OF THE SIZE OF THE NORMAL OF THE TOWNHOUSES.
THE, THE TOWNHOUSES FOR THE 15 UNITS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING ARE GONNA BE 80% OF THE SIZE OF THE NORMAL TOWNHOUSES.
AND, AND THEY WILL WON'T HAVE FINISHED BASEMENTS, BUT, OKAY.
SO IF YOU TAKE, LET'S ASSUME THAT, UM, IF IT WAS ON THE MARKET, SOMETHING THAT WAS 80% LESS AND WITHOUT A FINISHED BASE WOULD, WOULD BE, IT'S 80% LESS IN SIZE AND IT'S DOESN'T HAVE FINISHED BASEMENTS.
YOU ARE, AND YOU TAKE 70% OF 800, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT $550,000 PURCHASE PRICE FOR, UM, A MARKET VALUE OF A HOUSE THAT'S OF A TOWNHOUSE THAT'S 80% OF THE SIZE OF THE DORM ONES.
I MEAN NOW, AND THAT CLEARLY ISN'T COMPARABLE AT TH AT 30% OF, OF, UH, WEST AT 30, $30,000.
UH, IS SOMEONE REALLY GONNA BE ABLE TO SELL THESE THINGS? UH, IS SOMEONE REALLY GONNA BE WILLING TO SELL THESE THINGS THAT ARE UM, SHOULD HAVE A MARKET VALUE ABOUT FIVE 50 FOR $265,000 MORTGAGE? WHAT, WHAT'S, WHAT'S 2 65 DIVIDED BY FIVE 50? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S LESS THAN HALF, RIGHT? HALF YOU, YEAH, IT'S ABOUT 48%.
SO, I MEAN, I MEAN, IS THIS, I MEAN, IS THIS WHOLE THING JUST, UH, WE LOOK, NO ONE'S AGAINST, NO ONE'S.
NO ONE'S SAYING MAYBE WE SHOULD MAKE IT CLEAR NO ONE ELSE IS AGAINST AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
IT'S JUST, DOES THIS THING IS, IS THIS PROMISE REALLY A TRUE PROMISE? IS THERE ONE THAT COULD, CAN BE FULFILLED, I GUESS IS WHAT WE'RE FOCUSING ON AND GONNA DO THE RESEARCH MOSTLY.
I DO KNOW THERE'S A IS THERE ANYTHING, KEN, YOU THINK WE SHOULD STUDY AND AN TRY TO ANALYZE AND, AND CONNECTS WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING? I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY IS A MATH QUESTION.
I MEAN, IT SEEMS TO COME DOWN TO STRAIGHT MATH TO ME.
YOU KNOW, WHETHER SOMEONE WHO MAKES $30,000 A YEAR CAN SHELL OUT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS FOR A HOUSE AND THEN KEEP THE UP, CONTINUE TO UPKEEP IT AND PAY THE TAXES GOING FORWARD.
NO, IT'D BE SOMEONE'S MAKING 80 YEAR TO, TO QUALIFY FOR PORTABLE HOUSING, YOU CANNOT MAKE MORE THAN 80%, YOU CANNOT MAKE MORE THAN 80% OF THE AVERAGE.
SO YOU, YOU CAN'T MAKE MORE THAN $80,000, AND YOUR HOUSING COSTS CAN'T BE MORE THAN $30,000.
BUT, BUT I THINK THERE, THE THING, IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY IN THE EQUATION INCLUDE THE CONDOMINIUM FEES.
AND THEN IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SUCH A BIG HOUSE, IT'S THE MAINTENANCE.
IT'S, IT'S JUST A QUESTION OF IS IT, IS IT A FAIR THING TO DO TO SOMEONE? 'CAUSE THEY'RE GONNA BE, HAVE AN H O EIGHT TYPE OF CHARGE MM-HMM.
AND, AND, AND IF, IF IT WERE THIS, WERE THE CHOICE OF THE TOWN BOARD, THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THE FACTORS IN IT THAT WOULD MAKE THE IT ATTRACTIVE TO THE
[01:15:01]
TOWN BOARD.WOULD WE BE FACING TWO OR THREE YEARS FROM NOW WHEN IT WAS ACTUALLY DONE THAT SOMEONE'S GONNA COME IN AND SAY, I CAN'T DO IT, OR THE MATH WOULDN'T WORK IN TWO OR THREE YEARS.
SO, I MEAN, THOSE ARE ALL, YOU KNOW, WE WE'RE GIVING YOU A LOT OF, A LOT OF THINGS TO THINK ABOUT, I THINK TONIGHT.
AND DONNA, YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING? DONNA, YOU HAD, YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING? YES.
THERE'S A, A PROJECT IN BROOK, IT'S SIMILAR TO ACTUALLY WHAT YOU WERE SUGGESTING.
IT IS A MIXTURE OF TOWN HOMES AND SINGLE FAMILY.
AND THEY HAVE SET ASIDE, I FORGET HOW MANY AFFORDABLE UNITS, BUT THEIR TOWNHOUSES AND THEIR RENTAL.
SO EVEN THOUGH THE REST OF THE SITE IS FOR SALE, THE AFFORDABLE UNITS ARE RENTALS AND THEY ARE NOT PARTICIPATING IN THE H O A, SO THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE CLUBHOUSE.
WELL, ARE THEY, ARE THEY INTEGRATED INTO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY OR ARE THEY SET ASIDE SEPARATE SO THAT THEY DON'T, SO THAT THEY DON'T EVEN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY? THEY'RE, THEY'RE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, BUT THEY ARE, LIKE, AS YOU ENTER THE COMMUNITY, THEY'RE THE FIRST SET OF TOWNHOUSES AS YOU COME IN.
SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE STILL WITHIN THE COMMUNITY, BUT THERE'S THEIR OWN LITTLE CLUSTER OF UNITS.
BUT THAT'S ANOTHER WAY TO PERHAPS KEEP THE DENSITY DOWN AND STILL HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
WE'RE TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE IN TERMS OF COMING UP SOLUTIONS.
BUT THIS F E I S IS, IS VERY DOCTRINAL.
UM, AND, UM, UM, THE, UM, OKAY, UH, TERRY, WHY DON'T WE SKIP 10 FOR NOW AND DO THAT BECAUSE, SO WE CAN LIKE, YEAH, BECAUSE THAT'S, THAT'S JUST THINGS WE FELT WERE MISSING.
AND I THINK THAT'S PRETTY, PRETTY, UH, UM, WELL, WE CAN DISCUSS, WE CAN DISCUSS, WE CAN TRY TO, LET'S GO THROUGH ONE OR TWO MORE THAT PROBABLY KEN SHOULD PARTICIPATE IN.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, KEN COULD, YOU KNOW, HE'S GOT GOBBLES OF
UM, WE COULD COME BACK TO THAT ONE AND SEE IF, WELL, WE REALLY ONLY HAVE TWO MORE IF I'M CORRECT.
AND THOSE, THOSE HAVE TO DO WITH, UM, BASICALLY, UM, FINDINGS IN TERMS OF WHAT WE FELT WAS APPROPRIATE AND WHAT WE FELT WAS NOT APPROPRIATE.
AND I THINK IT'S IN A, IN A CERTAIN SENSE, THOSE ARE A RECAP OF WHAT'S GONE BEFORE.
AND THEN THERE ARE THE ATTACHMENTS WHERE YOU HAVE, UM, AND THEN THERE'S REALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT, CAN YOU TAKE 30 SECONDS TO READ 13? KEN, PLEASE.
I MEAN, WOULDN'T THAT, WOULDN'T, THAT JUST WOULDN'T, THAT WOULDN'T THAT THE THIRD PARTY DEVELOPER, THAT IF THE, IF THE PARENT DEVELOPER FLIPS IT TO A THIRD PARTY UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA
REMEMBER, YOU ARE BEING ASKED TO DOWN ZONE NOW.
SO YOU PASS AN AMENDMENT, SOME TOWN BOARD MEMBER PROPO PUTS ON THE WEBSITE, YOU KNOW, IS HEREBY THE CASE THAT ALL OF ELMWOOD, THAT WAS NOW R 30 IS GOING TO BE R 20.
THAT THEN THE, AND THE, THIS APPLICANT IS ASKING YOU TO DOWN ZONE AND YOU DOWN ZONE ALL OF THESE, THEN ANYONE IN THE WORLD CAN COME IN AND USE THAT DOWN ZONING.
YOU CAN'T DOWN ZONE AND SAY, THIS IS, IF IT, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DOWN ZONE AND SAY, THIS IS ONLY IF AND ONLY IF SOMEONE AGREES TO THE, TO ALL THE OTHER THINGS.
I MEAN, I KNOW HOW YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY TO THE APPLICANT, WE'LL ONLY APPROVE LIKE YOUR SITE PLAN IF
[01:20:02]
YOU AGREE TO THAT.IF YOU SELL IT, YOU KNOW, ALL THE CONDITIONS WILL BE BE BINDING ON THE, UH, THIRD PARTY, HUH? UH, YEAH.
UM, BUT, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING HERE.
YOU, YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO JUST NAKED DO A NAKED DOWN ZONING.
I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT IT'S NOT SO CLEAR TO ME THAT BY YOU, BY DOING A DOWN ZONING, YOU CAN PUT ANY CONDITIONS ON HOW THAT DOWN ZONING IS THEN DONE, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
BUT IT GOES ON, ON TO BE CONSIDERED AND THOUGHT ABOUT BY EVERYBODY KIND OF LIST.
WE'RE HOPING WE'RE, WE'RE STIMULATING QUESTIONS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE ANSWERED BEFORE A DECISION IS MADE.
BECAUSE, BECAUSE REMEMBER, IF YOU GO LOOK AT THE APPLICATION, THEY ARE MERELY ASKING FOR A DOWN ZONING AND A PUD AND A, AND THEN PLAY, AND THEN AFTER THE DOWN ZONE PLACING A PUD MM-HMM.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T UNDERS, I I, IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT AN OBVIOUS, TERRY AND I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS, IT'S NOT OBVIOUS TO US HOW THAT BINDS THE TOLL BROTHERS.
YOU KNOW, THEY COME IN AND THEY SAY, OH, WE GOT THIS THING DOWN ZONED AT R 20, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW JUST WHAT TO DO WITH R 20 IN, IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY, AND HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO WITH IT.
AND YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS ALSO IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS AS WE LOOKED, THERE WERE SO MANY THINGS HERE WE'VE GONE OVER TODAY, AND THIS IS ONE OF THE BIG ONES ON IT, YOU KNOW, IN EVALUATING OUTCOMES OF THINGS, ONE OF THE BIG ONES IS RISK.
AND YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER RISK WHEN, WHEN AN EVALUATION IS DONE.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, RISK AND PROBABILITY OF SOMETHING HAPPENING ARE REALLY SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF SOMETHING WHERE THERE ARE SO MANY UNKNOWNS THAT ARE, THAT ARE IN, IN THIS PROJECT, WHICH I'M SURE YOU FOLKS WILL BE LOOKING AT, AT THE TOWN BOARD WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS.
AND THAT'S WHY SO FOCUSED ON TRYING TO IDENTIFY ALL THE ELEMENTS THAT REALLY HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD SIMPLIFY THIS AND, AND TAKE AWAY SOME OF THE RISK IS IF YOU DEALT WITH THE, THE REAL PARTY AND INTEREST, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
SOMEONE BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY FOR $13 MILLION, THAT'S FINE.
AT THE TIME THE PERSON BOUGHT THE PROPERTY, THERE WAS A ZONING LAW IN EFFECT, AND IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL FOR THE TOWN.
THERE WAS ZONING LAWS, THE TOWN, THE PERSON BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.
THERE WAS A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IN EFFECT.
I THINK THE, I THINK SOME PLACES SAID THEY BOUGHT IN 27, 20 17, I THINK, AND THIS IS A 2018 APPLICATION.
SO SOMEONE IN 2017 BOUGHT PROPERTY AND THERE'S BEEN LONG EXISTING A ZONING LAW EFFECT THAT SAYS, HERE'S YOUR ZONING AND THERE'S A CERTAIN DENSITY ASSOCIATED WITH THAT ZONING.
AND IN 2016, THE TOWN BOARD DID A, UH, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SAY WE IN INCREASE IN ZONING 2017, SOMEONE BUYS A PROPERTY FINE.
AND 2018, EARLY IN 2018, THIS IS 18 DASH OH TWO OR OH THREE, WHATEVER THE APPLICATION NUMBER IS COMING ALONG.
OH, BY THE WAY, YOU GOTTA, YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA CHANGE THE ZONING ON THE PROPERTY I BOUGHT LAST YEAR.
THERE'S NO OBLIGATION IN THE WORLD FOR THE TOWN BOARD TO DO THAT.
AND, AND I'M GONNA FLIP THIS PROPERTY TO SOMEBODY ELSE.
AND YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, AS FAR AS I KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY LEGAL OBLIGATION IN THE WORLD TO CHANGE ZONING JUST 'CAUSE SOMEONE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE MORE MONEY WHEN THEY FLIP IT.
UH, THEY'RE DEVELOPING SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, 1.8 TO, UH, $3 MILLION ON BIG LOTS.
UH, OR MAYBE THE TOLL BROTHERS THAT BUY IT.
AND THEY HAVE A PLAN OF WHAT THEY, YOU KNOW, DO IN WESTCHESTER.
I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF PER, THERE'S MANY PERMUTATIONS OUT THERE.
AND WHAT PEOPLE WOULD WANNA DO IS THIS LAND IS THE ART DEVELOPERS.
[01:25:01]
UM, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY, UM, I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW YOU HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER WHAT HAPPENS BY JUST DOWN ZONING AND THEN PLACING A PUT ON IT AND INCREASING THE, THE PUT DENSITY, HEY, THAT GIVES YOU ANY CONTROL OVER ANYTHING.
AND, AND, AND, AND THE PUBLIC WILL BE TOLD HOW THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, TERRY'S TALKING ABOUT THE RISK, HOW THE, HOW THE TOWN IS BEING PROTECTED FROM THIS.
I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY RISKS IN THIS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IS IT LEGAL TO SAY THERE WON'T BE CONDOS IF IT IS LEGAL? CAN THE TOWN ENFORCE IT? IS, IS WHAT YOU, WHAT WE'RE BEING TOLD BY THE F E I S TAXES IS, IS, I MEAN, NOT TO THE PENNY, BUT DOES ED THINK THAT'S ROUGHLY RIGHT WHEN YOU HAVE NO LAND ASSOCIATED WITH, UH, EACH, UM, DWELLING UNIT LAND IS ESSENTIALLY VACANT, YOU KNOW, VACANT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN A DEVELOPED AREA, IT'S LIKE THE TWO LOTS NEXT TO YOU THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THE LAND'S A LOT LESS MM-HMM.
I MEAN, LOOK, IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO BUY IT, PERFECTLY LEGAL TO MAKE THE APPLICATION TO FLIP IT.
IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO TRY TO MAKE MORE MONEY.
BUT IT'S ALSO PERFECTLY LEGAL FOR YOU TO SAY, NO, WE HAD A ZONING LAW, WE HAD A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.
UH, WE HAVE A MAP WHERE WE'RE GONNA PUT PODS.
IF WE PUT A P HERE, WE AIN'T GOTTA PUT MORE DENSITY.
'CAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE CALCULATED WHAT THE DENSITY IS FOR THE PUDS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE JUST REALLY WANTED, YOU KNOW, SELL IT.
WE, YOU KNOW, THE GUY WILL PROBABLY MAKE MORE MONEY 'CAUSE LAND'S GONE UP SINCE, YOU KNOW, THE PURCHASE IN 2017 LAND IN WESTCHESTER.
UM, HE'LL PROBABLY MAKE MORE MONEY.
IT'S JUST ABOUT HOW MUCH MORE IS HE GONNA GET BY, BY THE DOWN ZONING AND, UH, THE INCREASED DENSITY.
AND, UH, WE'LL DEAL WITH WHOEVER COMES IN.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, AND YOU MAY OR MAY NOT, IF SOMEONE WANTED TO DO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN WHITE PLAINS AND DO SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, UH, YOU'LL PROBABLY, YOUR ONLY DISCUSSION WOULD PROBABLY BE, WE'D LIKE SOME OF THIS TO BE AFFORDABLE.
SO PRESUMABLY THE TOWN BOY'S GONNA EXPLAIN THIS TO THE PUBLIC.
IF THE PUBLIC'S AWARE OF THIS, KEN.
I MEAN, I, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES OUT THERE AND THERE'S REAL CONCERN, AND I THINK THERE'S A REAL, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A, AN AWARENESS IN UNINCORPORATED GREENBERG THAT WHAT HAPPENS HERE IS, IS APPLICABLE TO ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE, IN UNINCORPORATED GREENBERG.
AND THAT'S THE OTHER PIECE OF IT.
YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU, IT'S, IT'S NOT A ONE-OFF.
AND IT REALLY RAISES SO MANY QUESTIONS WITHIN HOMEOWNERS AND EVEN POTENTIAL PEOPLE COMING INTO THE TOWN BUYING EXISTING HOMES.
BECAUSE IF THERE'S AN UNCERTAINTY AS TO WHAT COULD HAPPEN IN MY RIGHT AROUND MY NEIGHBORHOOD, BECAUSE IN THE PAST THE TOWN HAS DONE THIS, IT SORT OF UNDERMINES YOUR EXISTING HOME'S VALUES.
AND QUITE TRUTHFULLY, RIGHT NOW, HIGH-END HOMES IS A GOOD TAX SOURCE BECAUSE I HAVE, I JUST WAS SPEAKING WITH A FRIEND WHO'S A REALTOR TODAY, AND SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW ON A $3 MILLION HOME IN, IN MIDWEST CHESTER, THERE WAS A BIDDING WAR.
I MEAN, THAT, AND IT WENT LIKE IN THREE DAYS.
SO I MEAN, THERE'S A REAL DEMAND, UM, ANECDOTALLY WITH MY OWN FAMILY, A COUPLE THAT'S 30, AND THEY'RE BIDDING ON HOMES OVER A MILLION DOLLARS BECAUSE THEY'RE TWO PROFESSIONALS WITH HIGH INCOME.
SO THERE'S A MARKET OUT THERE FOR HIGH END HOMES.
IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S, IT'S NOT A MARKET THAT'S THERE, UH, YOU CAN SEE WITH THE PROJECT OF WHITE PLAINS, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALWAYS COMES UP IS, OH, YOU KNOW, THE GREENBERG CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT, WELL, THE WHITE PLAIN SCHOOL DISTRICT IS COMPARABLE TO THE GREENBERG CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT.
SO I THINK IT, IT'S A WONDERFUL ANALOGY FOR WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT PROPERTY AS SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S AN ABSTRACT EXPECTATION.
AS MIKE SAID, THIS COULD PROBABLY BE FLIPPED RIGHT NOW TO THE
[01:30:01]
TOLL BROTHERS OF SOMEBODY FOR SINGLE FAMILY HOMES AT A PROFIT BY SOMEBODY BY THE AFTER.AND THEN, AND THEN THE ONLY DISCUSSION THE TOWN WOULD WANT TO HAVE, I THINK, IS WE WOULD LIKE SOME, UM, AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
UH, AND MAYBE IT'S LIKE DONNA SAYS MAYBE THE RENTALS, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LIKE SOME, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S YOUR, BUT DIDN'T YOU WORK IT OUT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF IN REAL WITH, WITH, WITH THE REAL DEVELOPER.
SO WHATEVER YOU AGREED TO IS GONNA ACTUALLY HAPPEN IN TERMS OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO I I HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.
MAYBE WE'RE NEGOTIATING WITH THE WRONG PARTY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD LET THEM FLIP IT
AND, AND, AND IN TERMS OF JUST GUT FAIRNESS, IT AIN'T UNFAIR WHEN SOMEONE COMES IN, THEY KNOW THE RULES, THE RULES ARE PUBLISHED.
YOU KNOW, UM, UH, IT'S A SOPHISTICATED PARTY.
IT'S NOT SOMEONE THAT SAID, OH, GEE, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I'M JUST A, YOU KNOW, POOR THIS OR THAT.
YOU KNOW, IT'S, THIS IS THE PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPER.
THE, THE ZONING CODE IS PUBLISHED, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANS ON THE TOWN WEBSITE, UH, THE SOPHISTICATED, UH, PURCHASER, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNFAIR TO SAY PLAY BY THE RULES.
WE DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE RULES SO YOU CAN MAKE MORE, YOU'RE GONNA MAKE SOME MONEY FLIPPING IT, OBVIOUSLY, BECAUSE IT'S JUST LAND BUYERS ARE GOING UP.
IT AIN'T OUR OBLIGATION IN THE TOWN, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN BOARD'S PROTECTING THE PUBLIC AND IN OUR OBLIGATION TO MAXIMIZE, YOU KNOW, MAKE YOU MORE MONEY.
YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THIS LAND WILL BE DEVELOPED AND THAT'S FINE AND WE'LL DEAL WITH WHOEVER'S GOING TO FLIP IT AND AS JUST HIS RIGHT.
I MEAN, IT'S HIS RIGHT TO MAKE THE APPLICATION, BUT IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO SAY NO, YOU KNOW? MM-HMM.
AND, UH, THEN YOU'LL DEAL WITH WHOEVER WANTS TO COME IN AND DEVELOP MM-HMM.
LOT, LOT, LOT OF HEAVY STUFF TONIGHT.
WE PLAN TO SEND THIS OUT IN ABOUT A WEEK.
UH, I MEAN, WE NEED TO, WE HAVEN'T VOTED ON IT YET, BUT I MEAN, YOU'RE WELCOME TO STAY IF YOU WANNA STAY.
I, WE'RE NOT GONNA GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE LAUNDRY LIST OF ADDITIONAL THINGS THAT MAY BE AN F FA F E I S OUGHT TO SAY.
UM, BUT, UH, YOU'RE WELCOME TO STAY, BUT I THOUGHT MAYBE, YOU KNOW, YOU FALL KNOW YOU'RE GONNA COURT AT NINE O'CLOCK TOMORROW MORNING.
UM, UH, YEAH, THAT'S, I'M SUPPOSED TO START A TRIAL ON MONDAY MORNING, SO I'M TRYING TO YEAH.
IT'S BEEN VERY EYE-OPENING AND INFORMATIVE AND AS ALWAYS, I APPRECIATE THE HARD WORK, UM, AND, AND MAKING IT, MAKING IT AND, AND THE SIMPLIFICATION, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE, BUT, BUT IT REALLY, YOU, YOU'VE REALLY CRYSTALLIZED IT FOR ME AND I APPRECIATE IT.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, KEN.
AND THANK YOU FOR SPENDING THE TIME FOR COMING, UH, CONTACT, UH, TERRY OR ME, IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN DO, THERE'LL BE ASSISTANCE TO THE TOWN BOARD.
WE'RE GONNA TRY TO SEND THIS OUT IN A WEEK.
UM, IF THERE ARE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSIONS, IF YOU WANTED TERRY AND I, AND MAYBE MARGARET AND NANCY, UH, AND GEORGE, I MEAN, DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WANNA DISCUSS ABOUT THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO BE PART OF A, OF A, OF A WORK SESSION TO, TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THESE ISSUES, WE OBVIOUSLY TRY TO MAKE OURSELVES AVAILABLE FOR THAT.
UH, BUT TO, TO TELL US WHAT YOU'D WANNA TALK ABOUT.
'CAUSE I MEAN, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT PEOPLE ARE CONTRIBUTING DIFFERENT PARTS OF IT.
WELL GO, GO BACK TO DO REAL WORK AND WE'LL, WE'LL, WITH, UH, FINDING KEN, I GUESS.
THANK YOU, KEN, FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.
OKAY, SO I GUESS WHAT WE WERE LOOKING AT, WE KIND OF SKIPPED OVER INFORMATION THAT WASN'T IN THE F E I S.
DID ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT SECTION? WELL, THANKS.
THERE'S A BRACKET, H A H DATA, YOU KNOW, ONCE GEORGE DOES HIS RESEARCH, WE'LL, YOU KNOW, ASSUMING THERE'S MISSING STUFF HERE, WE'LL PUT THAT IN.
UH, LIZ HAD SOME SENT SOME WRITTEN QUESTIONS TO TERRY ABOUT,
[01:35:01]
UH, THE NEW YORK STATE CLIMATE ACT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.ANYONE ELSE? DONNA, YOU LOOKED AT, YOU'VE LOOKED AT THE, THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND SOME OF THE CIVIL ENGINEERING DRAWINGS.
UH, IF YOU HAVE THINGS THAT COME OUT OF THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST EMAIL US AND IF THEY RAISE ANY QUESTIONS THAT NEED, YOU KNOW, THAT'RE NOT, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHY SOMETHING SAYS SOMETHING OR WHY SOMETHING DOESN'T DEAL WITH SOMETHING, WE CAN PUT THAT IN HERE TOO.
I, I DIDN'T LOOK THROUGH THEIR SWIP, BUT I DID LOOK THROUGH ALL THE PLANS AND, UM, THE PLAN FOR THE ALTERNATIVE THAT THEY DID, THE PLANS FOR THE PLANS WERE VERY THOROUGH.
UM, I GUESS THE NEXT ONE, THE NEXT TWO WE HAVE IS THE NOVEMBER 11, THE APPROPRIATE DEVELOPMENTAL ALTERNATIVES.
AND, UM, AGAIN, THIS IS A CASE WHERE, UM, IT'S A SORT OF SUMMARIZATION IN SOME SENSES OF THE REASONS WHY WE THINK THE, THESE, THE SINGLE FAMILY HOME ALTERNATIVE IS A STRONGER ALTERNATIVE FOR THE COMMUNITY, UM, AND A BENEFIT TO US.
DID ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT FINDING? OKAY.
UM, FINDING 12 IS THE ALTERNATIVE, THE FLIP SIDE, THE NOT DESIRABLE DEVELOPMENTAL ALTERNATIVES, WHICH KIND OF, AGAIN, IS A RE RECAP OF, UH, WHAT WENT BEFORE AND PUTTING IT ALL IN ONE PLACE TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, THESE ARE THE THINGS WE THINK ARE CONDITIONS THAT ARE NOT, ARE SUCH THAT WE DON'T THINK THESE ARE GOOD OR ALTERNATIVES.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS ON THAT? UH, JUST, JUST ONE.
UH, MIKE, YOU'VE BEEN EMPHASIZING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN THREE TIERS, UH, THREE PROBLEMS WITH, UH, WITH THE, ONE IS THE DOWNSIZING, THE OTHER IS, UH, PUTTING THE P U D AND THE THIRD WAS THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR A, UH, AN INCREASE, UH, ON TOP OF THE P U D.
AND I DON'T SEE THAT IN 12, THAT, THAT LAST ITEM, UH, IN ADDITION TO LOCATING THE, THE P U D, IT ONWARD, UH, YOU DON'T MENTION IN HERE, UM, THAT, UH, THEY'RE ALSO ASKING TO, UH, MAKE AN INCREASE IN THE, UH, THE ZONING FOR GOOD, GOOD CATCH, GEORGE.
IT ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE THERE.
I THINK I HAVE A QUESTION, THOUGH, A COMMENT WHERE WE DID ASK THEM THAT MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERED AS AN ALTERNATIVE, A MIXTURE OF SINGLE FAMILY AND TOWN HOME.
AND NOW WE'RE SAYING TOWN HOMES ARE NOT DESIRABLE.
SO IS THAT A MIXED MESSAGE? WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT, THAT'S GOOD QUESTION.
UH, I, MY, I I, I MEAN, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I MEAN, YEAH, IT'S A VERY GOOD, GOOD CATCH ALSO, DONNA.
YEAH, I MEAN, ALSO IT, UH, I GUESS IT WOULD DEPEND ON HOW, WHAT IS THE, THE, THE, WHAT IS THE QUANTUM OF EACH THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? DONNA? I, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
I THINK, UM, IF WE'RE SAYING THAT THERE CAN BE 126 UNITS, IF IT WAS 126 TOWNHOUSES, WE'D PROBABLY BE OKAY WITH THAT.
IT'S WITHIN THE EXISTING, IF IT'S WITHIN THE EXISTING, UH, WELL, WE DO SAY THEY DON'T GIVE, WE SAID SOMEPLACE EARLIER.
THEY DO NOT GIVE US THE 126 ALTERNATIVES.
I THINK IN THE WHAT'S MISSING? WHAT, WHAT DONNA, I MEAN, WHAT TERRY, I THINK IN THIS SECTION ABOUT WHAT'S MISSING IN THE, UM, F B I S, WE MENTIONED IT THAT THERE'S NO 126, WAIT A MINUTE CASE.
I THINK SOMEWHERE WE DID MENTION IT THAT THERE IS, BUT IT ALL, BUT, BUT I THINK DONNA IS RAISING A DIFFERENT ISSUE.
I THINK SHE'S RAISING THE ISSUE.
I THINK THE THING WITH THE TOWNHOUSES GOES TO, UM, TO THE LOOK AND FEEL OF THE COMMUNITY, I DON'T THINK, RIGHT.
IF THEY WERE COMING IN STRICTLY.
AND I, IT ALSO GOES TO THE FACT THAT WE SAID WE WERE NOT GOING TO DO A PUD THERE IN THE MASTER PLAN, THAT WE WERE GONNA DO MORE AND MORE PUDS.
AND, AND IT, AND THE PROBLEM WITH THE TOWNHOUSE PUD IS THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT ARE OPEN TO, UM, QUESTION IN TERMS
[01:40:01]
OF THE TAXING.SO I THINK MAYBE, 'CAUSE WHAT WE'VE SUGGESTED EVEN TO KEN TONIGHT, AND IT'S BEEN RAISED BEFORE, IS THE IDEA, BECAUSE IF YOU WERE TO HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, UM, ONE OF THE MORE EASILY DOABLE, AFFORDABLE HOUSING ALTERNATIVES IS, YOU POINTED OUT DONNA IS RENTAL, IT, IT, IT'S A MORE, IT'S A MORE APPROACHABLE THING FOR THE PERSON WHO NEEDS AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO BE IN A RENTAL SITUATION.
SO THEN HOW DO YOU DO THAT WITHIN A SINGLE FAMILY COMMUNITY? AND THAT MIGHT BE AN ADJUSTMENT OF SOME KIND OF HOUSING THAT LOOKS SORT OF LIKE A TOWNHOUSE, BUT FITS INTO THE COMMUNITY.
AND YOU, I MEAN, THEORETICALLY YOU COULD BUILD SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE AND HAVE IT SO POSITIONED THAT YOU HAD FOUR, UM, RENTAL UNITS IN IT WITH DIFFERENT ENT ENTRANCES.
I MEAN, IT, IT, YOU CERTAINLY IN A COMMUNITY WHERE YOU HAVE ALL 30 LOTS AND BIG HOUSES, I COULD SEE HOW YOU COULD ARCHITECTURALLY DESIGN SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE ANOTHER BIG HOUSE, BUT ACTUALLY IT WAS FOUR UNITS THAT WERE RENTAL UNITS.
SO A LOT OF THAT GOES TO THE LOOK AND FEEL.
AND I WAS, I WAS QUITE UPSET BY KEN'S COMMENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING THE ASSISTED LIVING.
IT WAS SORT OF LIKE THE COMMUNITY AGREED TO THE ASSISTED LIVING AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA BE PENALIZED 'CAUSE YOU AGREED TO, YOU GOTTA GET SOME MORE BIG BUILDINGS.
SO DONNA, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD PUT IN 10 IN TERMS OF ASKING FOR, OR WHAT SHOULD WE TAKE OUT SO WE DON'T, SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONSISTENCY IN 10 OR 10, MAYBE IT'S, UH, WHEREVER YOU WERE.
WHAT SHOULD WE DELETE? JUST, I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINTS.
I JUST, MAYBE, MAYBE EVEN JUST QUALIFYING, FINDING 12 IS TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES ON, YOU KNOW, JUST A TOWN, JUST A PLAN WITH ONLY TOWNHOUSES IS NOT A DESIRABLE ALTERNATIVE.
SO, SO NOT ONLY SO IT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, ONLY TOWNHOUSES.
WELL, I WOULD PUT IT IN THE FIRST SENTENCE BECAUSE ALTERNATIVES, AG, G AND I ARE ALL TOWNHOUSES.
MAYBE WE NEED A, A, A SUPPLEMENTARY SENTENCE IN THERE THAT SAYS THE USE OF, OF, UM, A TOWNHOUSE WITHIN, WITHIN A MIXED TOWNHOUSE, SINGLE FAMILY UNIT, UH, DEVELOPMENT MIGHT BE ACCEPTABLE OR SOMETHING.
BECAUSE I THINK, UM, SO WE, OR HOW ABOUT THE ALL TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES, WHICH QUALIFIES WHAT THAT IS.
WELL, WE'LL, WE'LL LET, LET DONNA ON THE NEXT DRAFT, WHICH MAYBE, YOU KNOW, SEND OUT SOMETIME OVER THE WEEK, PLEASE.
UM, PLEASE LOOK AT THIS AND SEE, I THINK WE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES WITH YOU.
WOULD YOU JUST KINDA LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF WE, WE WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE THIS AND, UM, AND IF NOT, UH, MAYBE YOU CAN COME UP WITH YOU.
COULD YOU SHOOT AN EMAIL WITH WHAT WOULD BE A BETTER WORDING? BECAUSE I MEAN, EVERYBODY, I THINK ANYBODY AGREES WITH YOU.
MARGARET, YOU, YOU WERE GONNA SAY SOMETHING? UM, I WAS JUST POINTING OUT WHERE WE SAY IT'S 10 WHERE WE SAY THAT THEY'RE NOT SHOWING US AN ALTERNATIVE OF A MIXTURE.
UM, THAT'S ALL I WAS GONNA POINT OUT.
IN 10, THEY SAY IN 10 WE SAY THE CONTAIN 126, THE LA THE LAST PARAGRAPH AND THEN THE LAST PARAGRAPH WE SAY THEY DON'T PROVIDE A MIXTURE.
DON'T SHOW US A, AN ALTERNATIVE FOR A MIX.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH SAYING THAT.
BUT WHAT DONNA'S POINT IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEN WE SAY, UM, TOWNHOUSE AREN'T DESIRABLE.
WELL, WE SAY THE TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES, WE'RE NOT SAYING TOWNHOUSES AREN'T THE, UM, THE TOWN, YOU KNOW, THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF TOWNHOUSES, AN ALTERNATIVE WHICH EXCLUSIVELY INCORPORATES TOWNHOUSES.
WE'LL FIND SOME WORD ALL EXCLUSIVE.
BECAUSE THE WAY THE SENTENCE READS NOW IS THE TOWNHOUSE ALTERNATIVES, ALTERNATIVE AG AND I ARE NOT DESIRABLE DEVELOPMENT ALTERNATIVES.
I'M NOT SAYING TOWNHOUSES AREN'T DESIRABLE.
WE'RE SAYING THOSE THREE ALTERNATIVES ARE
[01:45:01]
NOT DESIRABLE.WELL, MAYBE WE JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE, UH, CLEARER AND SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE EXCLUSIVE USE OF TOWNHOUSES IN ALTERNATIVES USE AGING NINE BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, OR NOT.
AND THE, AND THE, AND THEN WE NEED TO ADD IN GEORGE'S POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THIS DOUBLE, YOU KNOW, SPRING SPRINGBOARD ONE DENSITY INCREASE ON ANOTHER.
WELL, IT WASN'T MY POINT, MIKE.
IT WAS JUST UNDERSCORING YOUR POINT SHARON, YOU WERE GONNA SAY SOMETHING.
AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING A FURTHER ALTERNATIVE THAT WILL INCREASE THE DENSITY MORE, AND IT'S JUST MAKING IT MORE COMPLICATED.
I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, NO, NOT NECESSARILY, BUT POSSIBLY IF YOU CAME IN WITH 119 SINGLE FAMILY AND PUTS AN AFFORD AND, AND PUT, AND WITHIN THAT ONE 19 PUTS AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IT WOULDN'T INCREASE.
OR IF YOU CAME IN WITH A MIXTURE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAME IN WITH 90, UH, IF YOU CAME IN WITH, WELL, UH, RECENTLY YOU CAME IN WITH A HUNDRED, UM, A HUNDRED SINGLE FAMILY AND 10 AFFORDABLE HOUSINGS AS FAR AS THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I THINK THAT JIM WAS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, THAT THERE'S NO WAY THAT ANYONE COULD AFFORD TO HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THIS AREA.
YOU CAN HAVE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, BUT THEN IT DOESN'T HAVE, THERE'S NO, UH, CODE TO, TO DEAL WITH THAT.
SO THAT MAKES IT A BIT EASIER TOO.
BUT I, I SHANNON, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE SUGGESTING, WHICH I THINK COMES OUT OF SOMETHING DONNA SAID, IS THAT IF YOU HAD PRIVATE HOUSES, AND THERE'S A BIG TAX ADVANTAGE TO THE PRIVATE HOUSES, SO LET'S TAKE THE 113 PRIVATE HOUSES, I THINK, WHICH IS THE, AS OF ZONED AND GIVING UP THE LAND THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO GIVE UP BECAUSE TO GIVE UP THE LAND, I DON'T THINK THEY CAN DO 119 PRIVATE HOUSES.
SO IF THEY WERE DOING 113 PRIVATE HOUSES, SO LET'S SAY INSTEAD OF 113 PRIVATE HOUSES, WE DO 105 PRIVATE HOUSES.
AND THEN ON, UH, SOME OF THOSE LOTS, WE BUILD THINGS THAT LOOK LIKE PRIVATE HOUSES, BUT HAVE SEPARATE ENTRANCES AND BASICALLY ARE UNITS, RENTAL UNITS THAT HAVE FOUR HOUSES IN WHAT LOOKS LIKE IN THE MANSION.
SO YES, WE WOULD BE INCREASING THE DENSITY, BUT THE JUSTIFICATION, THE EFFORT INCREASING THE DENSITY WOULD BE THAT WE WERE PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
SO THERE WOULD BE A JUSTIFICATION FOR THE DENSITY INCREASE, BUT WE WOULDN'T BE ATTACKING THE UNDERLYING ZONING CODE FOR THE ENTIRE UNINCORPORATED GREENBERG.
WE WOULDN'T BE SETTING ANY MAGNIFICENT PRECEDENCE AND WE WOULD BE DEALING WITH THE PERSON WHO WAS BUILDING IT.
SO IT'D BE MUCH MORE IMMEDIATE.
AND IT WOULDN'T NECESSARILY, YOU'D STILL WOULD HAVE 105 SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WHICH WOULD MAINTAIN THE CHARACTER OF THE COMMUNITY AND UNDER AND MAINTAIN THAT STRONG TAX BASE THAT THE PRIVATE HOMES PROVIDE.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD IDEA, BUT IT'S NOTHING THAT THE APPLICANT HAS ASKED FOR.
SO I THINK YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE THROWING IN A LITTLE MORE PROBLEM, A FEW MORE PROBLEMS TO CONSIDER.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT IF WE HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN THE MULTI-FAMILY MANSION, IT'S GOING TO BE SORT OF, UH, EVERYONE'S GONNA KNOW WHO THE POOR PEOPLE ARE.
WELL, I THINK THAT'S TRUE IN THE TOWNHOUSES TOO.
I MEAN, NO MATTER HOW YOU DO IT, IF YOU'RE, I MEAN, LIKE FOR INSTANCE, THE EXAMPLE DONNA USED, THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO USE THE SWIMMING POOL.
I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S NO WAY YOU CAN INTEGRATE INTO A HIGH-END DEVELOPMENT, WHETHER IT'S A HIGH-END TOWNHOUSE OR A HIGH-END SINGLE FAMILY UNIT.
I MEAN, LET'S FACE IT, WHEN THE KIDS GO OUT TO PLAY, UH, THERE'S GONNA BE A DIFFERENCE IN THE CLOTHES THEY HAVE.
THE, THE, THE LIFESTYLE IS DIFFERENT.
SO IT'S TO TRY AND NEUTRALIZE IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
BUT TO YOUR COMMENT OF PUTTING SOMETHING ELSE INTO THE MIX, THE APPLICANT HAS COME IN AND SAID, THIS IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO.
AND THE APPLICANT PUT SOMETHING MAJOR INTO THE MIX AFTER THE D I SS WAS CLOSED AND THE COMMUNITY NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO COMMENT AS A COMMUNITY ON THE ITEMS HE PUT IN WITH HIS REVISED PREFERRED PLAN.
FOR US TO MAKE A SUGGESTION, I THINK AT THIS POINT IS TO
[01:50:01]
GIVE THE TOWN BOARD A WAY OF THINKING ABOUT ALTERNATIVES THAT THEY COULD COME UP WITH WHILE DEALING WITH THIS APPLICANT OR DEALING WITH A FUTURE APPLICANT AS TO HOW THE LAND COULD BE DEVELOPED.AND IT PRESENTS A POSSIBILITY TO THE TOWN BOARD THAT EVEN IF YOU HAVE SINGLE FAMILY ZONING, THERE IS A WAY POSSIBLY YOU COULD FIT SOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING INTO THE MIX.
AND, AND IT'S SOMEWHAT FALSE PREDICATE TO SAY THE APPLICANT'S COME UP WITH THIS OR THAT.
'CAUSE IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER, DOES IT? WHAT THE APPLICANT CAME UP WITH, THE APPLICANT'S NOT BUILDING DOESN'T MATTER.
I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THAT'S A VERY BIG POINT THAT SHOULD BE MADE.
MAYBE IT SHOULD BE, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE.
YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE LAND RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM ME WAS FLIPPED ONCE THEY GOT ALL THE PERMITS AND TOLD BROTHERS WENT IN AND BUILT IT.
THEY DID NOT GET A CHANGE IN THE ZONING LAW, DID THEY? OH YES, THEY DID.
WELL, WHO WAS THE APPLICANT? I I I WAS IT THE, IT WASN'T THE TOLL, EXCUSE ME? WAS IT THE TOLL BROTHERS OR THE MANAGER TOLL BROTHERS BOUGHT IT FROM NO, BUT THE TOLL BROTHERS WERE ON YEAH, THEY WERE ON THE, THE UR SOLD IT TO THE TOLL BROTHERS.
BUT TO TOLL BROTHERS WERE PART OF THE PROCESS, BECAUSE I REMEMBER THAT.
THEY BOUGHT IT, THEY BOUGHT IT.
THE TOLL BROTHERS WERE WHATEVER.
IT HA BUT MY IS IT DOES HAPPEN THAT YOU, YOU CAN, THAT'S HISTORY.
IT, AND IT DOESN'T MATTER FOR THE, THE POINT THOUGH IS THAT IT'S HAPPENED BEFORE AND I'M GLAD THAT SOMEBODY'S BRINGING IT UP AND SOMEBODY ON THE TOWN BOARD IS THINKING THAT THAT'S IMPORTANT THAT THIS GUY IS NOT, WELL, IT'S VERY NOT.
BUT, BUT MARGARET, I, I DO REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS A CONTRACT BETWEEN THE SELLER AND THE TO BROTHERS, AND THE TO BROTHERS CONTRACT SAID IT WAS CONTINGENT UPON GETTING THIS OR THAT TO BROTHERS WERE PART OF THE PROCESS.
WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO THE MYSTERY DEVELOPER'S GONNA BE.
OH, OH, I I I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S TRUE OR NOT, MIKE.
I, MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT WAS NOT TRUE.
UM, BUT OKAY, BUT I, I AGREE WITH YOU.
WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S BUYING THIS AND, BUT IF THEY BUY IT WITH THE PERMITS, THEY HAVE TO BUILD WHAT'S PERMITTED.
THEY CAN'T, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY DID, THERE'S NO PERMITS BEING ISSUED HERE.
THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A SITE PLAN.
THE ONLY APPLICATION IS THE ZONE ZONE FROM R 30 TO R 20 LOCATED.
SOMEBODY ELSE COME IN WITH A SITE PLAN, GOOD LUCK.
FOR INSTANCE, THE PREMISE OF THE $800,000 TOWNHOUSE, THERE'S NO WAY, THERE'S NO SITE PLAN HERE.
SO IF THEY CAME BACK AND SAID, WE'RE GONNA BUILD A $600,000 TOWNHOUSE, GOT IT.
MAYBE WE REALLY SHOULD BEEF THIS ONE UP.
BUT WITHOUT A SITE PLAN, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT THE UNITS ARE GONNA BE BUILT AS DESCRIBED.
THERE'S, WE HAD A CASE LIKE THIS WITH, UH, WITH THE, WHERE WE PERSUADED THE DEVELOPERS TO ONLY PUT IN ROADS WHERE THEY WERE GOING TO BE DEVELOPING.
IT'S NOT CLEAR CUT IT, AND THEY HOLD, THEY, THAT WAS A CASE WHERE THEY PUT, THEY PUT, THEY PUT HOUSES ON THE PROPOSED LOTS, BUT THEY ADMITTED FROM THE GET GO THAT THERE WAS NO WAY THAT WE COULD GUARANTEE THEY OR ANYONE COULD GUARANTEE THAT THAT WAS WHERE THE HOUSES WOULD BE.
BUT THAT WAS SOMETHING WHERE THEY WERE OPEN ABOUT IT HERE.
IT, IT SEEMS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BEING SORT OF FED INTO THE CHUTE LED TO, UH, I GUESS THE GARDEN BATH.
THAT THAT IS REALLY A HUGE UNCERTAINTY THAT, THAT THERE IS NO REAL SITE PLAN.
SO THERE'S NO, ALL THE ECONOMICS ARE SPECULATIVE.
WELL, THERE, THERE IS A SITE PLAN, THERE ARE SITE PLANS IN THAT DRAWING SET.
SO I THINK THE IDEA IS THAT, BECAUSE I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT TOO, AND I DID SEE, I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL, WHICH MEANS THE APPROVAL MUST BE BASED ON THAT DRAWING SET.
WHERE DID YOU SEE THAT THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL
[01:55:01]
BEING SOUGHT? NO, SHE DIDN'T SAY THAT.NO, I, NO, I DID, I DID SAY THAT.
UM, WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT NOW.
CAN YOU, CAN YOU JUST SEND AN EMAIL? BECAUSE, BECAUSE I'LL LOOK FOR IT, BECAUSE I WAS, I, I WAS THINKING ALONG THESE LINES AS WELL AND I, I COULD SWEAR I SAW IT AND I'LL LOOK FOR WHERE I FOUND IT.
LEMME LEMME READ TO YOU FROM WESTCHESTER COUNTY.
WHAT WESTCHESTER COUNTY SAYS IS, UM, HERE, WESTCHESTER COUNTY SAYS THE APPLICANT IS PETITIONING THE TOWN TO INCREASE THE RESIDENTIAL ZONING BY REZONING ALL PORTIONS OF THE SITE THAT IS ZONED ALL 30 TO THE SITE.
THE APPLICANT IS ALSO SEEKING TO APPLY THE TOWN'S PLAN UNIT DEVELOPMENT DISTRICT PUDS TO THE SITE, WHICH WOULD ALLOW FOR DEVELOPMENT OF PLUS THE TOWNHOUSES.
NOW IF THERE'S ANOTHER APPLICATION FOR, SO THIS IS IMPORTANT, DON, IF YOU CAN JUST EMAIL AROUND WHAT, WHAT, WHAT YOU FIND.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO, YOU, YOU DON'T HAVE TO FIND IT RIGHT NOW.
UH, I'VE NEVER SEEN AN APPLICATION FOR A SITE PLAN.
DOESN'T MEAN IT DOESN'T EXIST.
SO, WELL DONNA, DONNA WILL FOLLOW UP FOR US.
I'M SURE SHE'S ALWAYS THE ONE WHO'S SO CONSCIENTIOUS.
SO BETWEEN MARGARET AND DONNA AND NANCY, OUR COUNTRY CONSCIENTIOUS TRIO, NO, IT'S, IT'S GREAT.
AND JUST, JUST, UH, IF YOU CAN SCREENSHOT, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S THINGS THAT'S GOT ATTACHED TO IT THAT'S A HUNDRED PAGES FOR OR CHART OR BIG CHARTS OR SOMETHING THAT WE CAN'T OPEN, JUST SCREENSHOT THE ONE OR TWO PAGES THAT SAY WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.
SO YEAH, I MEAN IT WOULD SAY A SITE PLAN APPLICATION FOR BLOODY BLOCK, RIGHT? AND RIGHT IN THE, YEAH.
UH, UH, TERRY, DO WE HAVE THE ACTUAL APPLICATION? 1802? I HAVE SEEN, I THOUGHT I SPOKE E THE F OH, LET'S, MAYBE IT'S, YEAH, MAYBE IT'S CITED IN THE FBIS.
DOES IT, DOES ANYBODY? I, I, BUT I CAN'T WAIT NOW, JUST I'M NOT, LEMME THROW HERE.
CAN SOMEONE TRY TO FIND THAT AND SEND THAT AROUND THE ACTUAL APPLICATION, MATT? WELL YOU THINK IT'S, IT'S GOTTA BE CITED IN THE FBI.
I S DON'T YOU THINK MATT? SEE IF WE CAN ASK MATT.
MATT, IS THE APPLICATION ITSELF ON THE WEBSITE? IT SHOULD BE.
CAN YOU FLIP AND AND FLIP OPEN AND SEE? YEAH, 1802 OR 1803, SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS WHAT THIS IS.
SO I'M, I'M LOOKING THROUGH, UM, S C I S VOLUME ONE OF TWO AND THE DRAWING SET IS ENTITLED PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL DRAWINGS.
UH, THIS IS IN THE FIRST VOLUME? YES.
PAGE NINE IS, IS IT TWO DASH NINE OR ONE DASH NINE? YEAH.
UM, APPROVAL REVIEW, SITE PLAN APPROVAL IS, IS INCLUDED ON ONE SIX.
WHERE ARE YOU READING PAGE ONE SIX REVIEW REVIEWS AND APPROVALS REQUIRED.
RIGHT, BUT, BUT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THAT YES, AT SOME POINT IN TIME IT HAS TO BE OKAY, BUT THEY'RE DOING IT NOW.
OKAY, SO, SO MIKE, I'M, I'M SORRY, LIKE I'M LOOKING AT THE, AT IT ON THE SCREEN.
SO ACTUAL PAGE NINE, WHICH DOESN'T HAVE A PAGE NUMBER, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE TABLE OF CONTENT.
SO IT'S THE LITTLE ROMAN NUMERAL 5, 6, 8, 8 HOLD ON.
WHICH, UH, WHICH, WHICH DRAWING NUMBER? SO THE TITLE AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE SAYS PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL DRAWINGS, WHICH INCLUDE, AND THEN IT LISTS 'EM.
WHERE, WHERE DOES IT SAY AT THE BEGINNING? ISN'T THE APPLICANT HERE ON THE CALL, MATT? I THINK, I THINK WE WORE HIM DOWN AND HE LEFT
THERE IS A, THERE IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE REVIEW PROCEDURES AND PROCESS BACKGROUND CONTAINED IN ROMAN NUMERAL ONE DASH THREE ITEM B ONE DASH WHAT? THREE EIGHT.
[02:00:01]
IT SAYS A SUBMITTED THE TOWN BOARD A PETITION TO SEEK A ZONING MAP AMENDMENT TO REZONED THE ENTIRE PROPERTY TOTHAT'S WHAT THE COUNTY JUST SAID.
UM, OKAY, THEN IT SAID, UH, THE TALENT BOARD, LEAD AGENCY THEN IT SAID THE APPLICANT PREPARED TO D A S A FULL D A S PUBLIC HEARING IS, UH, PURSUANT TO C CORP, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN ONE D AS IN DELTA THAT SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT, WAIT A MINUTE.
THE F E I IS FULLY ALL PERMITTING REQUIRED, SO MUCH REQUIRED FOR THE PROPERTY, POTENTIALLY INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO ZONING MAP SITE PLAN.
WHERE IS THE IMPLICATION FOR ZONING APPROVAL? UM, UH, MATT OR, OR IT DOESN'T, I MEAN TO FULLY ANTICIPATE COULD ALSO BE BY THE, BY THE BUYER.
WHERE IS THE APPLICANT'S? MATT? IS THE, CAN YOU KNOW IF THE APPLICANT HAS MADE AN APPLICATION FOR SITE PLAN? I, EXCUSE ME.
THE, THE PROCESS BEGAN WITH A ZONING PETITION FOR THE P U D A REZONING OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH THEN IN TURN RECEIVED WAS CONSIDERED BY THE TOWN BOARD AND RECEIVED A POSITIVE DECLARATION, WHICH INITIATED THE, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT PROCESS, WHICH WE'RE CURRENTLY IN NOW.
SO, SO THE, SO AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO APPLICATION APPROVAL, SO AN APPLICATION FOR SITE PLAN APPROVAL WOULD FOLLOW THE TOWN ADOPTING FINDING STATEMENT BY WHOM? THE APPLICATION WOULD BE BY THE A, THE A ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT, RIGHT.
IS THE APPLICANT THE PRESENT OWNER OF THE HOUSTON OWNER? THE APPLICANT HAS OWNED THE PROPERTY SINCE 2017 AND AS OPPOSED, THAT'S RIGHT.
I UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY, BUT WHO'S GOING TO MAKE THE SITE PLAN APPROVAL? THE PRESENT OWNER OR FUTURE PRESENT OWNER.
WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT THAT'S THE INTENTION TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS APPLICATION? THE APPLICATION ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY, THEY, THEY'RE THE CONTROLLING OWNER OF THE PROPERTY AND THEY INTEND TO PROCEED WITH SITE PLAN APPROVAL AFTER A FINDING STATEMENT IS, IS ISSUED.
BUT, BUT, BUT ISN'T THE ISSUE THE FINDING THAT WE'RE HAVING, THAT THE FINDING STATEMENT AND THE DECISION SHOULDN'T BE MADE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE HAVE A SITE PLAN BECAUSE WE'RE MAKING A DECISION ON A SITE PLAN THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT SHOULD BE INCORPORATING MANY OF THESE FEATURES THAT PROBABLY ARE, WOULD BE INFLUENCING THE DECISION? WELL, I BELIEVE THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THE FINDING STATEMENT TO CONTAIN THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WOULD THEN TAKE THE SHAPE OF THE SITE PLAN APPLICATION.
BUT IF THE ZONING HAPPENS AND SOMEONE SAYS, NO, WE, WE, YOU KNOW, WE WANNA BUILD SOMETHING, UH, WITHIN THE ZONING, I THINK THERE'S THE SPECULATIVE TERRITORY THAT WE DON'T HAVE CONCRETE ANSWERS FOR IT THIS TIME.
WE CAN'T SPECULATE AS TO WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNER'S GONNA DO IN THE FUTURE.
YOU CANNOT WHAT? SPECULATE, WHAT CAN'T, YOU CAN'T SPECULATE AS TO WHAT THE PROPERTY OWNER'S GONNA DO IN THE FUTURE.
WE CAN'T, WE DON'T, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
SO THAT'S WHY IT'S DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE THAT ANSWER.
WE CAN'T SPECULATE WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
THERE'S NOTHING IN, THERE'S NOTHING IN FRONT OF, AND THERE'S NOTHING IF, IF, IF, IF THIS THING WAS APPROVED, IF THE APPLICATION WERE APPROVED TO DOWN ZONE TO PUT A PUT ON IT, INCREASE THE ZONING OF THE POD WAS APPROVED AT THE WHAT, WHEN'S THE NEXT THING'S? APRIL 9TH OR SOMETHING AROUND THERE.
IF IT WAS APPROVED ON APRIL 9TH, THERE'S NOTHING IN THE WORLD PREVENTS THE PRESENT OWNER TO SELL IT ON APRIL 10TH TO, UH, TO, UH, TO BRITAIN REALTY COMPANIES AND BRITAIN REALTY COMPANIES CAN DO WHATEVER WRITTEN REALTY WANTS NEW ZONING.
WE AGREE THAT IT'S ALL SPECIALTY.
EXCUSE ME, BUT WHOEVER, WHOEVER, WHOEVER PROCEEDS WITH SITE PLAN APPROVAL WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME PROCESS WITH THE TOWN.
YEAH, THEY'D HAVE TO SEEK AIP PLAN APPROVAL, BUT NOW THEY HAVE A
[02:05:01]
APPROVALS SAW WOULD HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT WITH TOWN'S ADOPTED FINDING STATEMENT, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD'VE TO START THE PROCESS ALL OVER AGAIN WITH A DIFFERENT APPLICATION.WELL THAT THE FINDING STATEMENT ONLY SITE TO DOWN ZONING AND, AND LOCATING A POD, THAT'S ALL THAT'S BEING ASKED IS DOWN ZONING AND LOCATING A POD.
AND IF THAT'S YES, I LOOKED UP IT'S APRIL 9TH ON APRIL 9TH, THAT'S IMPROVED ON APRIL 10TH.
THE BRI REALTY COMPANY AND BRI REALTY COMPANY CAN PUT IN WHATEVER SITE PLANNING YOU SAID, CAN'T SPECULATE ABOUT WHAT BRI REALTY COMPANY WILL DO.
BRITAIN CAN PUT IN WHATEVER SITE PLANNING WANTS CONSISTENT WITH THE NEW DOWN ZONING AND INCREASED DENSITY.
BUT I WOULD JUST SUBMIT THAT THE, THE BASIS OF THE FINDINGS IS PREDICATED ON THE PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN APPROVAL DRAWINGS THAT ARE PART OF THIS ANALYSIS AND THE ALTERNATIVES THAT GO HAND IN HAND WITH THAT.
WELL, I GUESS THAT'S FOR THE TOWN BOARD TO DECIDE, BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
I ALSO, RIGHT, FIRST TIME IT'S PURELY SPECULATIVE AS TO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.
I I, I DON'T SEE HOW FINDINGS ON A DOWN, DOWN ZONING HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH SITE PLAN.
PEOPLE CAN DEVELOP SITE PLAN BASED ON WHATEVER THE ZONING LAWS ARE.
THE ANY FUTURE, A FUTURE SITE PLAN FOR A PROPERTY THAT LARGE, ALL LIKELIHOOD IF IT WAS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT, UH, IS POTENTIALLY APPROVED BY THE TOWN BOARD IN ITS FINDING STATEMENT WOULD MOST LIKELY TRIGGER ANOTHER, UH, POSITIVE DECLARATION AND E I S UH, PROCESS.
IN WHICH CASE THE FINDING STATEMENT FOR THAT PROCESS COULD, YOU KNOW, IN THEORY REFERENCE PREVIOUS FINDING STATEMENT AND FOR THE APPLICANT TO BE IN LINE WITH THAT? IT COULD.
AND THE KEY WORD AND EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY 100% AGREE WITH IS THE VERB COULD ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU.
IT COULD, IT COULD HAVE AND PROBABLY, AND I WOULD SAY SHOULD HAVE A NEW ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STATEMENT PROCESS AND IT COULD, UM, UH, RELATE BACK TO THIS.
IT COULD GOOD DOESN'T MEAN IT, IT NECESSARILY WOULD, DOESN'T NO, IT'S THE SAME ISSUE WITH REALLY ANY KIND OF APPROVAL.
LIKE JUST BECAUSE AN APPLICANT IS GIVEN AN APPROVAL, DOES NOT IN ANY WAY GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL CONSTRUCT WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR OR CONSTRUCT ANYTHING AT ALL.
LIKE WE RECENTLY HAD, AND FOR AS AN EASY EXAMPLE, THERE WAS A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, YOU GUYS SAW IT, 25 BAYBERRY, UH, ROAD, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE APPROVED FOR A MINOR ADDITION AND THEN THEY WENT TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT FOR A KNOCK DOWN AND REBUILD.
YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE YOU APPROVED THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, MINOR ADDITION DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY WENT FOR.
AND BECAUSE THEY CHANGED IT, THEY HAD TO GO BACK AND GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AGAIN.
BECAUSE THERE, BECAUSE WHAT WOULD, BUT THIS IS DIFFERENT, MATT.
WHAT THERE WAS APPROVED, WHAT THERE WAS APPROVED WAS A PERMIT TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY CHANGED THE
I, I THINK BECAUSE NOTHING'S BEING APPROVED HERE, OTHER, THE NAKED DOWN ZONE AND THEN, AND THEN THE FIELD IS WIDE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO WITHIN THE NAKEDS, ARIZONA.
SO I THINK WE'VE GONE OVER AN AWFUL LOT.
DO WE HAVE, UM, DO WE WANNA GO OVER THE DOC, THE APPENDIX DOCUMENTS OR? I, I THINK THE, EVERYBODY HAS COMMENTS ON AND THE APPENDIX.
UM, UH, I THINK GO AHEAD MIKE.
UM, YOU KNOW, APPENDIX IS A TECHNICAL LEGAL OPINION, SO I DON'T KNOW THERE'S ANYONE, ANY COMMENTS ON THAT.
IF NOT, MAYBE WHAT WE SHOULD BE MOVING TO IS A MOTION.
'CAUSE THE NIGHT'S GETTING LONG AND I KNOW DONNA AND MARGARET HAVE PUT IN A FULL DAY'S WORK AND SO HAS MATT AND JAMES.
SO
[02:10:01]
WILL BE DISTRIBUTED TO EVERYONE TO APPROVE AS, UM, THE, UH, THAT THEY'VE APPROVED WHAT WE'VE DONE.AND, YOU KNOW, ANY EDIT CHANGES THAT ARE MADE WOULD BE COMPLETELY DISTRIBUTED AND REVIEWED BY EVERYONE BEFORE THE DOCUMENT WAS SENT.
BUT IT'S BASICALLY AN AUTHORIZATION FOR THE DOCUMENT TO BE, UM, SENT ONCE WE'VE GONE THROUGH THAT PROCESS THAT WE ALWAYS USE, UM, FOR COMMENTING ON THE FINAL DRAFT BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME PIECES MISSING IN THIS.
AND WE ALWAYS DO A LITTLE BIT OF WORDSMITHING AT THE END WHEN WE SUDDENLY THAT SAYS WE'VE BEEN READING FOR, FOR TWO WEEKS, WE SUDDENLY REALIZE DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE
SO CAN I HAVE A MOTION FOR THAT FROM SOMEONE? SO MOVE MARGARET.
DO WE HAVE A SECOND? I SECOND.
YOU, YOU VOTE BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A FULL VOTE TONIGHT.
IF YOU WANT TO ALFRED? YEAH, YOU CAN VOTE IF YOU WANT.
HEY,
I, I'M, UM, UH, I'M GONNA, UM, UH, MARGARET, IF YOU'LL PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO GEORGE AND TERRY AND ME.
WHAT TO WELL, LET'S, LET'S SAY TENTATIVE THREE O'CLOCK BECAUSE CERTAINLY THREE O'CLOCK.
AND IF SOMETHING GOES I'LL, I'LL BE OKAY.
DOES THAT WORK FOR EVERYBODY? YES.
WITH ME, AND I'M VERY FLEXIBLE.
SO IF IT CHANGES, JUST LET ME KNOW.
AND ALFRED, I DO LIKE YOUR BACKGROUND.
JAMES, DID YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING? YES.
I JUST WANNA THANK THE C A C FOR THEIR DISCUSSION TONIGHT.
AND, UH, I WOULD HOPE THAT, UH, WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO SHARE A, A DRAFT OF THOSE, UH, FINDINGS THAT YOU DISCUSSED? UH, WE MAY BE ABLE TO FILL IN SOME OF THE BLANKS OF SOME OF THE QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE IN THERE.
SO, UM, WOULD YOU BE, UH, WILLING TO CIRCULATE THE DRAFT? WELL, UH, LET'S, WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT.
WE'VE NEVER REALLY DONE THAT BEFORE.
UM, WE'D NORMALLY, UM, I MEAN, WE PREPARED A DRAFT FOR THIS MEETING, SO IT'S, UH, WELL WHAT WE DID IS, YOU KNOW, WE HAD AN EXTRA MEETING SO THAT THIS MEETING WE COULD
UM, WE, UM, UM, I IF WE, IT DEPENDS.
I WAS GONNA SAY, I GUESS MY GUT FEELING, JAMES, IS NOT TO CLOSE YOU OUT OF IT, BUT THIS IS REALLY A CAC TYPE OF THING, AND I THINK SINCE IT WOULD BE GOING OUT FAIRLY SHORTLY, AND I CERTAINLY THINK WHEN WE SEND IT, WE COULD PROVIDE IT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU WOULD'VE A RIGHT TO IT AT THAT POINT.
I'M A LITTLE BIT UNCOMFORTABLE.
I, I DUNNO HOW OTHERS FEEL, BUT MY, MY GUT FEELING IS I PREFER NOT TO.
UH, JAMES, YOU'VE HEARD THE DISCUSSION NOW, IF YOU WANT TO, UM, UH, UH, WE'VE GONE THROUGH EVERY ONE OF THE FINDINGS, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEND US ANY LETTER, WE INTEND TO SEND THIS OUT A WEEK FROM A, I'M SORRY, A WEEK FROM TODAY, WHICH I THINK IS THE, UH, THIRD.
SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO SEND US A LETTER, UM, YOU KNOW, MONDAY, TUESDAY WEEK, THAT WE COULD CONSIDER, UM, BEFORE WE GO, BEFORE THE FINAL, THAT'S FINE.
I DON'T YOU, AND YOU'RE NOT REQUIRED TO REPORT, BUT IF YOU'D LIKE TO, UH, SUBMIT SOMETHING BASED ON YOUR NOTES OF THE ISSUES WE DISCUSSED, UM, UM, THE, THE LIKE YOU DID BEFORE AND YOUR ANSWER VERY CLEAR, UM, WE, WE CAN PUT THAT INTO THE WORK BEFORE WE FINALIZE IT.
I WAS GONNA SAY, AND, AND, AND MATT WILL HAVE THIS UP ON THE WEBSITE, SHOULD YOU WANNA GO BACK AND CHECK WHAT WAS SAID.
IT, IT GOES UP PRETTY MUCH THE NEXT DAY, RIGHT? MIKE? MATT? UH, IT FOR THE WEBSITE, I'M NOT SURE, BECAUSE THIS IS, ISN'T LIKE LIVE STREAM, LIVE LIKE THE PLANNING BOARD OR TOWN BOARD MEETINGS ARE.
UM, BUT I CAN SEND, UH, THE LINK TO THE RECORDING TO YOU JAMES, UH, REWATCH IF YOU LIKE IT.
[02:15:01]
THAT OPPORTUNITY.UH, LET ME REGROUP WITH, UH, MY TEAM AND, UH, WELL WE MADE, THANK YOU.
ARE YOU WITH THE DEVELOPMENT JAMES, OR WHO WITH THE, UM, A CONSULTANT.
WE'RE THE SITE DEVELOPMENT CONSULTANTS.
WE TOOK THE LEAD ON PREPARING, UH, THE D E I S AND F B I S AND UH, WE WORKED WITH DOZENS OF SUB CONSULTANTS TO DO THOSE SPECIALIZED STUDIES THAT WERE IN THE, THE D E I SS PROCESS.
SO WE'VE BEEN INVOLVED SINCE THE SCOPING, UM, FOR THE, THE D I S WAS PERFORMED? NO, NO, I I JUST, I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU WERE WITH THE, BUT, BUT THEN IT'S REALLY HARD FOR YOU TO OKAY.
YOU, YOU'RE WITH THE CONSULTANT OF THE APP.
BUT WE'LL BE DELIGHTED IF YOU SEND US SOMETHING MONDAY OR TUESDAY, WHAT I CAN DO.
ANYTHING ELSE THEN? I THINK WE'RE FINISHED FOR TONIGHT.
IT'S BEEN A LOT OF WORK AND PARTICIPATION BY EVERYONE AND, UM, BE LOOKING FOR, YOU'LL BE SEEING THE DOCUMENT COMING AROUND AGAIN FOR READING AND EDITING.
SO, UH, WITH THAT I THINK WE'LL CLOSE THE MEETING.
AND MATT, YOU CAN, I GUESS STOP RECORDING AND SOMETHING HOLD, HOLD ON.
MARGARET, MIKE, ARE WE ZOOMING TOMORROW? WE'RE GONNA BE ON THE PHONE.
HOW IS THAT WORKING? I THINK WE'LL JUST BE ON THE PHONE IF THERE'S DOCUMENTS TO FOLLOW UP, I CAN SHOOT 'EM OUT TO EVERYBODY.
WHY DON'T YOU, WHY DON'T YOU PUT A THREE O'CLOCK ZOOM? YEAH, I CAN DO THAT.
AND THEN WHAT YOU DO IS YOU JUST LOG, LOG OFF AND LOG RIGHT BACK ONTO ZOOM IF YOU RUN OUT OF TIME.
WE WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT ONE, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT ONE SENTENCE.
I'M SURE WE CAN DO IT IN 45 MINUTES.
YEAH, I, I REALLY THINK I HAVE AN ANSWER, BUT WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT TOMORROW.
I'LL PUT ZOOM OUT FOR THREE O'CLOCK TOMORROW AFTERNOON AND WE CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT.