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NOW.[ TOWN OF GREENBURGH PLANNING BOARD AGENDA WEDNESDAY, January 3, 2024 – 7:00 P.M. Meetings of the Planning Board will be adjourned at 10:00 p.m. ]
EVENING LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AND HAPPY NEW YEAR.WELCOME TO OUR FIRST MEETING OF 2024.
WE THOUGHT WE'D NEVER GET HERE.
UM, COULD YOU CALL THE ROLE MATT, PLEASE? SURE THING.
UH, NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT MR. TOM HAY, MR. SAI AND MS. LESLIE DAVIS ARE ABSENT THIS EVENING.
AND THEN THEREFORE, UH, MS. SPARKS WILL BE A FULL VOTING MEMBER.
FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO WELCOME MS. SPARKS OFFICIALLY TO THE TOWN, TO THE PLANNING BOARD.
THIS IS THE FIRST OF 40 YEARS YOU WILL SPEND ON THIS
AT LEAST IT'LL FEEL LIKE THAT.
I JUST WANT TO JUST READ YOU, PATTY.
WE HAD SENT A GIFT TO PATTY, UH, AND SHE SENT BACK, DEAR PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE, FOR THE VERY, UH, GENEROUS CHRISTMAS GIFT.
YOUR KINDNESS IS GREATLY APPRECIATED.
WISHING EVERYONE A HAPPY, HEALTHY, PEACEFUL, AND SAFE.
WHAT DID, UH, WE SEND HER, UH, WE GOT HER A HOUSE IN FLORIDA,
IS THAT ALL RIGHT? GIFT CERTIFICATE.
UM, PATTY DOES AN INCREDIBLE JOB FOR US AND KEEPING US ORGANIZED, SO, UH, SHE'S REALLY GREAT AND OBVIOUSLY, UH, SHE'S KEEPING THESE GUYS ORGANIZED TOO.
SHE DOES A VERY WONDERFUL JOB WHAT SHE DOES, AND WE'RE VERY LUCKY ABSOLUTELY.
SO, UM, VERY HAPPY ABOUT THAT.
DID ANYBODY HAVE ANY COMMENTS IN THE MINUTES? I HAVE ONE ON, UH, ON PAGE FIVE.
UM, RIGHT AFTER THE FIRST, UH, SENTENCE MM-HMM.
THE COMMISSIONER CONFIRMED THAT THERE WILL BE NO DIRECT ACCESS, UH, FROM THE DEVELOPMENT TO THE EAST BRUERY PARK.
WELL, THERE, AND, AND THAT WAS CLARIFIED THAT THERE'S NOT A DIRECT RIGHT, RIGHT.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE CONED YEAH.
THAT'S ALL THE PROPERTY IN THE MIDDLE.
UM, ANYBODY ELSE? I'LL TAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES AS AMENDED.
UH, WALTER AND JOHANN, ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
UM, CAN I, CAN I ASK, I DON'T KNOW WHO THIS QUESTION IS DIRECTED AT, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ELMWOOD AND BROOK PARK, ABOUT REALIGNING THE SOUTHBOUND EXIT FROM, FROM THE SPRAIN WITH THE SOUTHBOUND ENTRANCE TO THE SPRING.
SO THE MAIN RATIONALE BEHIND LINING UP THOSE RAMPS IS WHEN YOU PROJECT THE PROSPECT FOR A TRAFFIC SIGNAL THERE, IF YOU LEAVE IT AS IS, YOU HAVE STAGGERED SIGNAL.
I HAVE THE ANSWER THE QUESTION.
YOU DON'T WANT TWO TRAFFIC SIGNALS.
BINGO, YOU KNOW, 50 FEET APART, RIGHT? YEAH.
AND THAT LEFT AND THAT, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY THINKING OF PUTTING A TRAFFIC SIGNAL.
YOU ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT LEFT.
SOMETIMES, MICHAEL, I MEAN, WHEN THERE'S TRAFFIC COULD BE A LITTLE HAIRY COMING UP.
I NEVER TAKE THAT EXIT, SO I WOULDN'T KNOW.
THE OTHER, THE OTHER THING RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS GONNA BE REALLY IMPROVED AS A RESULT OF ALL OF THIS IS RIGHT SIDE BY SIDE WITH THAT IS THE ENTRANCE TO RUM BROOK PARK.
AND I THINK IT'S HAPPENED MORE THAN ONCE.
PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY GONE THE, GONE DOWN THE EXIT RAMP RATHER THAN INTO RUM BROOK PARK.
I THINK IT'S HAPPENED A COUPLE OF TIMES.
SO, UM, IT, IT'S A CLEARLY AN IMPROVEMENT.
AND I'M VERY HAPPY THIS GENTLEMAN DID A LOT OF WORK.
GARY DID A LOT OF WORK TO, TO, TO, WITH THE DOT TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
I DON'T WANT TO, UH, BUT WE'RE THE RIGHT, IT'S DONE DEAL, BUT WE'RE ON TRACK TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.
AND WHAT JERRY IS DOING, OR NOT JERRY ANYMORE, THE BRONX DEPARTMENT, JERRY, JERRY IS RETIRED AS OF
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DECEMBER 31ST.UM, IS DO, IS BUILDING A ROAD A LITTLE BIT FURTHER AWAY FROM THAT, THAT ENTRANCE AND THE EXIT, I MEAN, AND DOING IT IN A WAY THAT CIRCUMVENTS THE WHOLE FIELD.
THEY DON'T LOSE IN MUCH GREEN SPACE.
THEY CAN BUILD A REAL BALL FIELD IN THERE.
SO THE WHOLE PLAN, I THINK MAKES A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT OF SENSE, YOU KNOW, SO I'M, I THINK IT'S GONNA WORK OUT VERY NICELY FOR US.
THAT WAS A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
CARS, IS IT, THIS IS LIKE, UH, WHAT'S, YOU KNOW WHOSE LINE IS, ANYWAY, EVERYBODY GETS POINTS, BUT THE POINTS DON'T MATTER.
WE'VE GOT, IN CORRESPONDENCE, WE HAD THREE THINGS.
ONE WAS JUST A POSTPONEMENT FROM REGENERON.
UM, SO THEY'RE STILL WORKING ON THEIR TRAFFIC STUDY, AND I ASSUME THEY'LL BE, HOPEFULLY BE IN ON THE SIXTH WITH US ON THE SIXTH, UH, THE, I'M SORRY, THE FEBRUARY 7TH.
NO, THEY REQUESTED FEBRUARY 7TH.
SO WE'LL SEE THEM ON FEBRUARY.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE WORKING ON SOME THINGS, SO THAT'S GOOD.
THERE ARE TWO THINGS IN CORRESPONDENCE.
THE FIRST ONE, AS YOU KNOW, GARRETT IS OUR SIDEWALK MAVEN AND HAS BEEN ABLE TO GET A LITTLE HUGE AMOUNT OF GRANT MONEY FOR THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
AND WE'VE BEEN BUILDING SIDEWALKS WHEREVER WE CAN.
AND THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY, AGAIN, TO BUILD ADDITIONAL SIDEWALKS IN A PLACE WE'VE BEEN WANTING TO BUILD THEM FOR A WHILE.
WE HAVE A FULL BOARD NOW, SO IT'S HARDER.
UH, I'LL LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT L LESLIE DAVIS HAS JOINED THE MEETING.
SO, UM, THERE, GARRETT, WHY DON'T YOU EXPLAIN WHERE, WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND, AND WHAT WHAT YOU NEED FROM US.
UH, PLANNING BOARD HAS GIVEN SEVERAL, UM, LETTERS OF SUPPORT FOR VARIOUS GRANTS AND LETTERS OF SUPPORT ARE A BIG PART OF GRANTS.
SO WE REALLY APPRECIATE THE SUPPORT YOU'VE GIVEN.
AT PRESENT, THERE'S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY THROUGH, UM, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FUNDING, FEDERAL FUNDING ADMINISTERED BY NEW YORK STATE, DOT.
IT'S CALLED THE TAP GRANT TRANSPORTATION ALTERNATIVES PROGRAM.
UM, THE TOWN OF GREENBURG HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL ACQUIRING THREE SUCH GRANTS, CENTRAL AVENUE SIDEWALK, WHICH IS NOW COMPLETE, UM, HILLSIDE AVENUE, WHICH IS PRESENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION ON PACE TO BE COMPLETE MAY THIS YEAR.
AND LASTLY, UM, THE EAST WEST HARTSDALE IMPROVEMENTS, WHICH ARE SIDEWALK AND VARIOUS IMPROVEMENTS ON EAST HARTSDALE AVENUE.
SO MULTIMILLION DOLLAR GRANTS IN EACH INSTANCE, AND, UM, THEY'VE BEEN EXCELLENT.
THE LATEST ROUND OF THE TAP GRANT IS PRESENTLY OPEN.
THE TOWN OF GREENBURG INTENDS TO FILE TWO APPLICATIONS THIS ROUND, AND IT'S LITERALLY GONNA BE FILED, UM, MUST BE FILED BY TUESDAY OF NEXT WEEK.
THE TWO CANDIDATES THAT WE ARE GOING TO APPLY FOR ONE IS A LOCAL ROAD, OLD ARMY ROAD IN THE EDGEMONT SECTION OF THE TOWN.
IT'S A LOCAL ROAD, UM, A SIDEWALK FROM CENTRAL AVENUE TO ALEY ROAD.
IT'S, IT'S A LONG SPAN, UH, TO ALEY ROAD.
YOU SAID IT'S ONE LEY, UH, ROUGHLY FROM CENTRAL, A LITTLE BIT UP FROM CENTRAL WHERE THE SIDEWALK ENDS ON OLD ARMY DOWN SOUTH TO THE, UH, INTERSECTION OF, UH, THE BROAD RIVER ROAD LEY ROAD.
I'M SORRY, IS THIS OLD ARMY ROAD OLD OLD ARMY ROAD SIDEWALK IS OLD ARMY ROAD WHERE CENTRAL I GOT.
SO IT'S ABOUT A MILE SPAN, MAIN ARTERY IN EDGEMONT.
A LOT OF SCHOOL KIDS WALK IT TOO.
UM, SO, UH, WE'RE SEEKING A LETTER OF SUPPORT FROM THE PLANNING BOARD FOR THAT PROJECT.
AND THE OTHER PROJECT'S, THE KNOLLWOOD ROAD SIDEWALK.
THIS WOULD SPAN, IT'S ABOUT 1600 LINEAR FEET FROM THE ACME SHOPPING, SHOPPING PLAZA.
IT'S KNOWN AS THE KNOLLWOOD SHOPPING PLAZA.
AND IT WOULD THEN, UM, TRAVEL NORTH ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE ROAD AS THE SHOPPING PLAZA TO, UH, THE PRESERVE AT GREENBURG, WHICH IS TOWNHOUSE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, THE GREENBURG HEALTH CENTER IS ANOTHER GOOD REFERENCE POINT.
THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT GAP THERE.
AND WE'RE LOOKING TO FILL THAT GAP.
SO THAT'S A NEW YORK STATE ROAD.
BOTH PROJECTS ARE ELIGIBLE, ELIGIBLE, AND, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO FILING THESE GRANTS.
SO YOU SEEK, UH, YOUR, YOUR SUPPORT AND, UM, DO WE NEED TWO VOTES AND ONE, UM, I THINK ONE VOTE MAYBE FOR EACH? WELL, I, I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.
UM, I DROVE DOWN OLD ARMY ROAD.
IT HAS A SIDEWALK THE ENTIRE LENGTH.
IT'S NOT A DA COMPLIANT, IT'S ONE OF THESE TYPICAL ASPHALT SIDEWALKS.
THEN IT NARROWS AROUND THE TELEPHONE POLE, THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER THING.
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A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS.LET ME JUST SPIT 'EM OUT AND THEN YOU CAN ANSWER IT.
YOU KNOW, WHY ARE WE SPENDING MONEY ON THAT WHEN THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHICH HAVE NO SIDEWALK? OKAY.
LIKE FORT HILL ROAD ROAD, AND I LIVE OFF OF FORT HILL ROAD, SO IT'S MY PET PEEVE.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE CURRENT SIDEWALK ON OLD ARMY? I MEAN, DON'T TELL ME A FEW PORTIONS.
WHY AREN'T WE SPENDING MONEY SOMEWHERE ELSE? IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
UM, FORT HILL ROAD, UH, IS ABSOLUTELY, UH, AN IMPORTANT GAP AS WELL.
UM, ARLEY ROAD HAS MULTIPLE SCHOOLS ON IT.
YOU MEAN OLD ARMY WHILE OLD ARMY ROAD, I'M SORRY.
OLD ARMY HA HAS MULTIPLE SCHOOL CONNECTION POSSIBILITIES.
AND YES, THERE'S A FOOTPATH THERE.
UM, BUT WHY, I MEAN, LOOK, YOU DON'T REALLY WANT TO WALK A BABY CARRIAGE DOWN IT.
BUT SCHOOL KIDS, I MEAN, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY INJURIES NEAR ACCIDENTS? YOU KNOW, TELL ME, I MEAN, HAS IT, HAS IT OBVIOUSLY PROVEN TO BE INADEQUATE? AND JUST DON'T JUST TELL ME IT'S NARROW.
THE, THE, THE PROJECT IS INTENDED TO MAKE OLD ARMY ROAD MORE OF A COMPLETE STREET.
SO IT'S NOT SOLELY THE SIDEWALK WIDTH, IT'S A COMBINATION OF THINGS.
UM, A A CURB WILL BE BROUGHT IN FOR THE SIDEWALK.
THERE WILL BE A FIVE FOOT WIDE SIDEWALK.
THERE WILL BE CROSSWALKS, A DA COMPONENTS AT EACH INTERSECTION.
UM, THERE'S THE POTENTIAL FOR A SPEED TABLE AT CERTAIN JUNCTURE OF THE AVENUE WHERE IT'S, UM, CAR SPEED QUITE A BIT.
WHAT'S A SPEED TABLE? SPEED TABLE IS A RAISED PLATEAU THAT, UM, WE DON'T CALL IT SPEED BUMPS ANYMORE.
IT'S, IT'S NOT JUST A LITTLE BUMP, IT'S A WIRE SPEED BUMP.
IT'S JUST ONE OF SEVERAL TREATMENTS THAT MIGHT BE APPLICABLE OUT THERE.
UH, RRFB, RAPID REPEATING, FLASHING BEACON, THAT'S GONNA BE A COMPONENT OF THE PROJECT.
SO WHEN YOU PUT TOGETHER ALL THESE COMPONENTS, IT TAKES WHAT WE THINK MIGHT BE DECENT FOR WALKING, AND IT REALLY TRANSFORMS IT INTO A TRULY PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY EXPERIENCE.
IF, IF YOU, IF YOU WIND, THERE'S ALSO A TRAFFIC CALMING ELEMENT THAT'S ENVISIONED WITH THE PRESENCE OF A CURB AND ALL THESE OTHER ELEMENTS.
IF YOU, IF YOU WIND THE CURRENT SIDEWALK TO FIVE FEET, WHICH I GUESS I GATHER, IS A DA COMPLIANT YES.
HOW MANY TREES ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO CUT DOWN? HOW MANY FENCES ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO TEAR DOWN? HOW MUCH, HOW MANY SHRUBS ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO CUT OUT? HOW MANY NEIGHBORS ARE YOU GONNA, YOU KNOW, TICK OFF BECAUSE YOU'RE CUTTING OUT THERE? HA.
HAS THAT BEEN INVESTIGATED? UH, IT ABSOLUTELY HAS.
WE, UM, THE TOWN UTILIZED A PROFESSIONAL, UM, ENGINEERING CONSULTANT, AND WE WALKED IT WITH, WITH, UH, A RESIDENT OF THE, OF THE COMMUNITY.
UM, AND WE ABSOLUTELY IDENTIFIED THERE ARE TREES THAT WILL HAVE TO COME DOWN.
UM, I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT NUMBER RIGHT NOW.
UM, IT'S PROBABLY ON THE ORDER OF, UH, FIVE TO 10.
UM, AND NOT MUCH MORE THAN THAT.
UM, WE HAVE IDENTIFIED NUMEROUS IMPEDIMENTS, UM, RELOCATIONS OF UTILITY POLES, UH, FIRE HYDRANTS, UM, SOME SHRUBS AND BUSHES IN GENERAL, THOUGH IT, THE CONDITIONS ARE FAVORABLE.
UM, THERE'S SOME BEAUTIFUL RETAINING WALLS OUT THERE.
UM, WE FEEL THAT THEY'RE SET BACK FAR ENOUGH WHERE WE WON'T HAVE TO IMPACT THEM.
UM, THERE'S NO CURB CURRENTLY ON, UM, OLD ARMY IN, IN PORTIONS THERE.
THERE'S A BIT OF A, UM, BELGIAN BLOCK CURB.
IT'S, IT'S JUST, BUT IT'S DISCONTINUOUS.
THERE'S SOME INTERSECTIONS THAT, UM, THE MAIN BEND AS YOU COME UP, UM, WHERE, WHERE OLD ARMY ROAD TAKES A DECIDED BEND IS A VERY WIDE, UM, GAP.
THERE'S GONNA BE, UM, A SIGNIFICANT ROAD DIET THERE AT THAT PORTION, UM, THAT IS ALSO GONNA FURTHER TRAFFIC COLUMN.
SO THERE'S JUST SO MANY ELEMENTS THAT WHEN IT'S, IF WE GET THE GRANT AND THE PROJECT'S IMPLEMENTED, UM, IT'S NOT MAKING ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU MAY THINK MIGHT BE A SMALL INCREMENTAL IMPROVEMENT.
IT'S REALLY A MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT IN, IN MY MIND.
AND, AND WOULD GREENBERG BE CONTRIBUTING MONEY, OR WOULD, WOULD IT ALL COME FROM THE FEDERAL? YES.
THE, THE, THE FUNCTION OF ALL TAP GRANTS ARE MINIMUM 20%, UM, LOCAL MATCH.
THIS PROJECT, UM, PROJECTS, UH, CONSTRUCTION COSTS PROBABLY NORTH OF $3 MILLION.
SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, UH, SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENT FROM THE TOWN.
UM, THAT COULD BE ANYWHERE FROM SIX TO $800,000.
AND IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THE OTHER ROADS
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THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE NOT WORTHY.UM, JUST KNOWING THE TAP GRANT AND THE POINTS THAT ARE SCORED FOR THINGS LIKE CONNECTIVITY, UM, SAFE ROUTES TO SCHOOLS, UM, THIS, THIS REALLY DOES PRESENT ITSELF AS A VERY GOOD CANDIDATE, WASN'T ALSO AN ISSUE IN PORT HILL WITH THE NEIGHBORS.
THERE'S A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORS IN GENERAL.
UM, RESIDENTS IN THE EDGEMONT PORTION OF THE TOWN ARE SUPER SUPPORTIVE OF SIDEWALKS.
I KNOW THERE WAS ONE PROPERTY LINE, THERE'S SPOT PROPERTY BOUNDARY ISSUE THAT, UM, PRESENTS DIFFICULTIES, WHICH WE'LL HAVE TO BE FIGURED OUT AT SOME POINT.
THEY HAVE AN ATTORNEY AS I RECALL.
YEAH, MAYBE SO, BUT IN GENERAL, VERY SUPPORTIVE, UM, FROM THE RESIDENT PERSPECTIVE AND, UH, JUST SEEMS LIKE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.
DID, DID, DID YOU WALK IT WITH DI WE DID, WE DID WALK IT WITH DYLAN, FORT HILL ROAD COMPLICATION.
THERE IS, UM, THAT MAY TO FIT A SIDEWALK BECAUSE IT'S SO NARROW.
UM, OLD ARMY ROAD HAS A RIGHT OF WAY SPACE OF 40 FEET.
UM, AND THE ROAD BED IS WITHIN THAT, OF COURSE.
UM, MUCH OF FORT HILL ROAD GETS DOWN TO LIKE 28 FEET, 31 FEET, RIGHT OF WAY, RIGHT OF WAY.
AND THEN NOW YOU HAVE TO, SO THERE, IT COULD BE THAT THERE'S, IT NEEDS A ONE WAY, UM, CONVERSION TO ACTUALLY FIT A SIDEWALK IN.
YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT ROAD.
AND FOR A TAP GRANT, YOU CAN'T APPLY TO SAY, HEY, WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO GET THIS GRANT.
WE'RE NOT SURE IF IT NEEDS A ONE WAY OR NOT.
TO GET A TAP GRANT, DOES IT HAVE TO BE A DA COMPLIANT? I DON'T THINK SO.
WHEN ONE BUILDS A SIDEWALK, IT DOES.
BUT WHY GET THE FEDERAL DOLLARS? NO, I THINK IT'S TRUE.
ANY SIDEWALK YOU BUILD NEEDS TO BE ADA A COMPLIANT WHO SAYS THE GOVERNMENT, UM, AMERICAN DISABILITIES ACT.
I MEAN, A, IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
AND B, IF YOU DON'T, YOU ARE HIGHLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO LAWSUIT.
IT'S, IT'S TRUE OF IN ANY PUBLIC FACILITY.
FOR INSTANCE, IF THEY REDID THE POOL.
NOW ONE OF THE REASONS THEY BELINE THE POOL OKAY'S.
ONE OF REASON TO SAY WE LINE THE POOL.
I HAVE BOTH LETTERS AND I HAVE A PEN.
OH, MY HAND IS JUST NOT WORKING TONIGHT.
UM, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I, UH, I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION TO EITHER ACCEPT OR REJECT, UH, THE RECOMMENDATION.
MAKE A MOTION THAT WE ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION.
YOU SUPPORT, UH, SIGNING THE LETTER.
I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT DISCUSSION.
UM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEW OLD ARMY SIDEWALK IS GONNA LOOK LIKE.
I'LL JUST ACCEPT THAT FACE VALUE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA BE A BETTER SITUATION.
BUT I ALSO BELIEVE, AND SINCE I LOVE OFF FORT HILL, THIS IS THE PLACE I KNOW BEST.
I'M GONNA VOTE IN FAVOR OF THIS, BUT I THINK THE PRIORITIES OF THE TOWN ARE MISPLACED.
THERE'S A SCHOOL OFF FORT HILL TOO.
JJ 'CAUSE I DON'T WANT TO LOSE SIGHT OF IT.
THE, THE MAIN COMPLICATION WITH, UM, FORT HILL IS FOR THIS PARTICULAR GRANT, YOU CAN'T APPLY FOR THE FUNDING SAYING WE MAY OR MAY NOT NEED TO DO IT ONE WAY.
THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT, BUT THE TOWN'S GOTTA, AND SO WE ARE WORKING THE BULLET AND MAKE A DECISION.
WE ARE WORKING ON THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT GONNA BELABOR THE POINT.
YOU KNOW, WE WALKED THROUGH FORT HILL WITH PAUL ABOUT THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO AFTER SOME KID GOT KILLED AT THE CORON OR INJURED, WHATEVER IT WAS.
I I IT'S A PRIORITY, THE TOWN BOARD AND, UM, WE ARE DOING WHAT'S NECESSARY.
ARE YOU SIGNED IT ON BEHALF OF THE BOARD? YEAH.
I THINK WE NEED TO FINISH THE VOTE, RIGHT? YES, VOTE EXACTLY.
THIS IS FOR WIDENING MY STREET, BY THE WAY.
YOU HAVE TO MOVE ALL THE HOUSES ON YOUR BLOCK WITH ME BACK.
GET RID OF NO, I ACTUALLY LIKE MY NEIGHBORS.
THE SECOND ONE SHOULD BE A LITTLE BIT SIMPLER.
BACK IN 1994, UM, BOSTON MARKET CAME IN FOR A, UH, SPECIAL PERMIT TO BUILD ON CENTRAL, UH, TO GO IN ON CENTRAL AVENUE NEXT TO WHERE THE CHASE BANK IS ON CENTRAL.
UH, IT HAS RECENTLY GONE OUT OF BUSINESS AND, UM, WITH, AS LUCK WOULD HAVE IT, THE UH, LANDLORD HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO PUT ANOTHER, UH, FAST CASUAL RESTAURANT IN THERE.
THE ONLY, UH, FLY IN THE OINTMENT IS BACK IN 94 FOR SOME REASON.
AND NONE OF US WERE ON THE BOARD, NOT EVEN ME BACK THEN.
UM, THERE WAS A PROVISION IN THERE THAT REQUIRED A WAIT
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WAITER OR A WAITRESS TO BE, UH, SERVICE TO BE BE, UH, PRESENT FOR, FOR THE PERMIT TO BE VALID.NOW, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, BUS MARKET NEVER HAD A WAITER OR A WAITRESS, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
UM, IT SEEMS TO ME WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT FAST CASUAL, MOST FAST CASUAL DON'T HAVE WAIT WAITER OR WAITRESSES.
AND WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO DO NOW, IF, IF EVERYBODY'S INCLINED IS TO MODIFY THAT SPECIAL PERMIT, 'CAUSE SPECIAL PERMIT GOES WITH THE LAND, NOT WITH THE, THE, THE USER.
MY QUESTION, UM, DO WE KNOW WHY? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE? SO WE, WE, WE DID LOOK INTO THE TRANSCRIPTS AT THAT TIME, AND THE BEST SENSE WE HAD IS THAT THERE WAS CONCERN THAT, THAT WHATEVER RESTAURANT WERE TO COME IN WOULD EVOLVE INTO A FAST FOOD, EVEN THOUGH THAT ITSELF WOULD REQUIRE A DIFFERENT SPECIAL PERMIT.
SO IT JUST SEEMED THAT THERE WAS, UM, CONCERN THAT, UH, A NON-TRADITIONAL RESTAURANT WOULD, WOULD OPEN THERE.
SO, UM, CERTAINLY NOT SOMETHING THAT PLANNING BOARD CONDITIONS NOW.
AND IT'S DEFINITELY WOULD HAMPER, UH, RIGHT.
SO I JUST WANNA TO NOTE THAT THIS IS FOR CASE NUMBER PB 94 DASH ONE, AND THE CONDITIONING QUESTION IS CONDITION 10 OF THE APPROVAL.
DO YOU WANNA TAKE A REVOTE SINCE QUESTION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
PB 2207, WHICH IS CHICK-FIL-A AND I NEED TO STEP OUT AND RECUSE MYSELF.
IS JOE ON ZOOM? YES, YES IS MR. CAN? YES.
IS JOHN ON JOHNNY? HI, HOW ARE YOU? HAPPY NEW YEAR, JOE.
JOHN, YOU, YOU ON AS WELL? MR. CANNING? HE'S HERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S LISTENING YET.
SO THIS CAN, I WOULD LIKE HIM ON FOR, FOR THE RESPONSE TO OKAY.
THIS PLACEMENTS CAME IN TODAY, SO YOU'RE NOT EXPECTING TO DO IT.
CHARLES GOTTLIEB FROM WHITEMAN, OMAN, HANNAH IN ALBANY, NEW YORK HERE ON BEHALF OF CHICK-FIL-A HERE WITH TIM FRY.
TAG, THE PROJECT ENGINEER FROM BOWLER ENGINEERING AND PHIL GREELEY FROM COLLIER'S ENGINEERING, OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER.
UM, WE RESUBMITTED TO THE BOARD IN DECEMBER.
WE RESPONDED TO ALL PUBLIC COMMENTS, UH, SOME COMMENTS WE RECEIVED FROM THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
UH, SOME COMMENTS WE RECEIVED FROM MR. CANNING FROM KIMLEY HORN.
UH, AND WE PROVIDED A, UH, ADDITIONAL CHICK-FIL-A FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE REGION SO THAT THIS BOARD COULD USE IT AS A COMPARISON.
UM, A FEW POINTS I JUST WANT TO KIND OF KEEP US FOCUSED ON, SINCE THIS IS OUR ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY SINCE APPLYING, UM, FOR THE PROPERTY, UH, WOULD LIKE TO, UH, START THE DISCUSSION ABOUT THE ZBA REFERRAL ONCE THIS BOARD FEELS THAT IT'S COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO DO SO.
UM, AND ALSO, UH, AS FAR AS PROCEDURE GOES, UH, GAUGE WHEN THE BOARD MIGHT START TO EVALUATE, UH, CCRA AND DO PART TWO OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT FORM, WE DO STILL HAVE TO GO TO THE CITY OF WHITE PLAINS AND THE ZBA IN THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
UM, FOR THOSE AGENCIES TO ACT ON THE PROJECT, UM, WE NEED A SECRET DETERMINATION IN PLACE.
UM, SO WE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T LOSE SIGHT OF THE TREES IN THE FOREST OR HOWEVER THAT SAYING GOES AND KIND OF, UH, KEEP THOSE STEPS IN MIND AS WE PROGRESS.
UH, SO WITH THAT SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT US TO TALK ABOUT OUR SUBMISSION, GO THROUGH SOME OF THE TRAFFIC RESPONSES.
WE CAN DO DO IT WITH QUESTIONS, BUT LET ME, I DO WANNA RESPOND TO YOUR PROCEDURE, JUST SO YOU UNDERSTAND OURS.
UM, GENERALLY WHEN WE REFER SOMETHING TO THE ZONING BOARD, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE THE, WE ALREADY DECLARED OURSELF LEAD AGENCY LONG AGO ON THIS.
UM, WE, WHEN WE REFER TO, TO THE ZONING BOARD, WE REFER IT WITH A RECOMMENDATION.
WE COULDN'T DO, DO THAT WITHOUT, WELL, WE COULD MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION, BUT WE CAN'T REFER IT TO THE ZONING BOARD WITHOUT SEEKER.
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WHAT WE DO IS WE DO SEE AT THE SAME TIME WE DO THE RECOMMENDATION MM-HMM.SO WHAT THE, WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW WITH THE WORK IN THE WORK SESSION IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT OUR RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD WOULD BE.
AND THEN IT GOES TO THEM FOR THE VARIANCES AND THEN COMES BACK TO US FOR FINAL APPROVAL OR FINAL DECISION ON, ON THE SPECIAL PERMIT ITSELF.
THAT'S VERY HELPFUL THAT, THAT'S THE PROCEDURE.
IT NOT EV NOT EVERY TOWN HAS THIS RECOMMENDATION PROCEDURE.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WORKED OUT WITH THE ZONING BOARD, I DUNNO, FIVE YEARS AGO NOW.
WE'VE BEEN DOING ABOUT, ABOUT FIVE, SIX YEARS AGO WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT, SO, OKAY, GREAT.
WE'RE WE'RE PRETTY UP TO DATE AND, UM, WE, WE DON'T KNOW WHERE WE ARE.
SO THAT WOULD BE SIMULTANEOUS.
I'D JUST LIKE TO START OFF WITH A FEW COMMENTS.
FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK.
I I SAW ALL THE STUFF STUFFY DID.
UM, I HAVE TO ADMIT, I HATE GIVING ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, BUT I HAPPENED TO DRIVE BY A CHICK-FIL-A ON MY WAY HOME FROM DC UH, LAST FRIDAY.
IT WAS ON, ON THE ISLAND AS YOU GO ACROSS THE CHESAPEAKE BAY BRIDGE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT ISLAND IS.
I LOOKED LIKE A DOUBLE DRIVE-THROUGH, I'M NOT SURE, BUT BOY, IT WAS BACKED UP.
IT WAS ABOUT ONE ONE O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON ON FRIDAYS.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE ISLAND.
I CAN LOOK IT UP ON THE MAP, BUT IT'S, IT'S RIGHT AFTER YOU C IF YOU'RE GOING NORTH ON THE CHESAPEAKE BAY BRIDGE TOWARDS DELAWARE, IT'S AFTER YOU GET OVER THE BRIDGE ON THAT, THERE'S AN ISLAND AND IT'S ON THAT, IT'S, IT'S RIGHT OFF THREE, I GUESS THAT'S THREE MARYLAND 3 0 1 RIGHT OFF OF MARYLAND 3 0 1.
SO THAT WAS WHEN WE SAW, UM, THANK YOU.
I KNOW YOU DID A LOT OF HARD WORK AND TRIED TO RESPOND TO EVERYTHING THE PUBLIC SAID.
I'M GONNA GIVE YOU MY OPINION AND IF OTHER PEOPLE WANNA JUMP IN AFTERWARDS FIRST, JUST AS MY THOUGHTS AS TO WHERE WE'RE AT AND WHAT WE NEED TO DEAL WITH.
I THINK THERE ARE THREE THINGS.
FIRST OF ALL, I, I STILL, I DIDN'T SEE, AND MAYBE I MISSED IT, I DIDN'T SEE ANY ADDITIONAL QUEUING DATA IN THERE.
I SAW LOTS OF NICE MAPS, LOTS OF LAYOUTS, A LOT OF INFORMATION ABOUT A WHOLE BUNCH OF DIFFERENT, OF YOUR DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS.
I DIDN'T SEE ANY DIFFERENT ADDITIONAL, UH, DATA ON, ON THE ACTUAL QUEUING.
WHICH IS WHAT I WAS HOPING TO SEE.
JUST CAN YOU CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT OF
YOU, THE FIRST, WHEN YOU GAVE US THE FIRST STUFF, WHEN YOU GAVE US THE FOUR, YOU GAVE US FOUR, FOUR LOCATIONS, I THINK TWO IN CONNECTICUT, TWO IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.
I THINK THEY WERE, THAT WAS GREAT.
DATA JUST WASN'T ENOUGH, WHICH IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU FOR, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF MEETINGS NOW.
AND I WAS HOPING THAT YOU WOULD'VE GONE BACK TO CORPORATE IF YOU HAD TO.
I KNOW YOU GUYS DON'T REPRESENT OKAY.
AND SAY, OKAY, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S IN ALASKA, CALIFORNIA, WHEREVER IT IS, THERE'S A CHICK-FIL-A I JUST WANTED TO SEE MORE THAT, THAT CONFIRMED WHAT I SAW IN THE FOUR, IN THE FOUR THAT I SAW.
THE FOUR THAT I SAW, THE NUMBERS WERE, I WAS COMFORTABLE.
NOTHING WAS REALLY ABOVE THE CAPACITY YOU HAD PUT IN.
RIGHT? I THINK MAYBE ONE DAY WE GOT TO 36, I THINK IT WAS, IT WAS NO BIG DEAL.
OKAY? SO IT LOOKED LIKE WE ACT, YOU DID WHAT YOU HAD TO DO IN TERMS OF CAPACITY.
BUT MY ONLY CONCERN WAS IT WAS FOR FOUR UNITS AND THAT WAS IT.
I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM, AND WHEN I READ THIS, WHAT I SAW WAS WHEN I READ YOUR NARRATIVE, WHAT I SAW YOU DOING, I SAID, WELL, YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE EVERYTHING OUT OF THE NORTHEAST, THEN YOU HAVE TO ELIMINATE ALL THE ONES THAT AREN'T, AREN'T A DOUBLE, DOUBLE DRIVE THROUGH.
AND SO WE ALL COME BACK DOWN TO THIS.
IF THERE ARE ONLY FOUR OF THESE GO GOING IN THE UNITED STATES, AND WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION IN PARTICULARLY IN THAT LOCATION, OKAY, ON FOUR ON, ON FORD DRIVE, ON FORD DRIVE, IT MAY HAVE PASSED YONKERS, BUT I, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT PERSONALLY, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE REST OF THE BOARD FEELS ABOUT THAT.
SECOND THING, THE IDLING ISSUE, OKAY? MM-HMM.
AND ACTUALLY THE COUNTY ITSELF DOESN'T REALLY ENFORCE THE I LAW WHEN IT COMES TO DRIVE THROUGHS.
UM, IT'S BASICALLY A C THE ARGUMENT CIRCULAR.
WELL, IT'S BECAUSE YOU CAUGHT IN TRAFFIC, LIKE YOU'RE CAUGHT IN TRAFFIC ON A HIGHWAY.
WELL, EXCEPT GETTING CAUGHT IN TRAFFIC IS THERE WAS A CREATED THING BECAUSE YOU'RE BUILDING THE DRIVE THROUGH.
SO IT'S KIND OF CIRCULAR BOTTOM LINE.
WHETHER OR NOT IT VIOLATES ANY LAW OF, OF WESTCHESTER, OF WEST CHESTER COUNTY, YOU'RE STILL GONNA BE IDLING FOR FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME.
OKAY? WHY ARE YOU GOING THROUGH THE DRIVE THROUGH IF THERE ARE 20 CARS STACKED, THEY'RE UP IN THERE.
OKAY? ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION YOU MAY HAVE, OKAY? I DIDN'T KNOW HOW FAST CARS MOVE ALONG.
[00:30:01]
OF THE THINGS YOU SAID, YOU, YOU SAID IN THAT ANALYSIS OF THE IDLING WAS THAT, WELL, THE CAR NEVER SIT FOR THREE MINUTES.WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE, WHERE THAT INFORMATION IS IN THE THING.
IT SAYS THEY DON'T SIT FOR THREE MINUTES BEFORE THEY MOVE UP ONE.
MAYBE IT'S ONE AND A HALF MINUTES.
CLARK, YOU MUST HAVE THAT DATA.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER TO THAT IS.
OKAY, HERE'S MY THIRD ONE, AND THIS IS GONNA BE A CURVE BALL TO YOU, AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS, BUT I REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT AFTER LISTENING TO THE PUBLIC AND ACTUALLY LISTENING TO OUR TRAFFIC CONSULTANT.
AND JOHN, I'M GONNA WANT YOU LATER TO OPINE ON THIS IN PARTICULAR, OKAY? I HAVE BEEN THE ADVOCATE OF A LEFT TURN OUT ONTO OLD CONSECO ROAD SAYING, WITHOUT THAT, I THINK THIS PROJECT WON'T FLY.
THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, IF THE LOCATION ACROSS THE STREET OKAY, IS OPEN AT THE SAME TIME WITH ANYTHING, WITH ANY TRAFFIC, AND YOU'RE ALLOWING A LEFT TURN INTO THEIR FACILITY, YOU GOT A, YOU GOT PEOPLE STACKED UP AT THE LIGHT, YOU THEN HAVE THESE PEOPLE COMING DOWN THIS WAY TRYING TO DO THIS INTO THAT LOT, AND YOU GET SOMEBODY COMING OUTTA YOUR LOT TRYING TO DO THIS.
TO ME, IT LOOKS LIKE AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.
NOW, I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S A REASON TO KILL THE PROJECT.
I'M SAYING WHAT I NEED TO KNOW IS FROM YOU GUYS AS WELL AS FROM OUR, OUR CONSULTANT, CAN WE ANY OTHER WAY YOU HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO PUSH THE TRAFFIC THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THE QUESTION I HAVE, IF WE RESTRICT THE LEFT TURNOUT, WHICH I'M NOW, AND IT WAS ACTUALLY I THINK JOHN CANNING WHO BROUGHT THAT UP THE LAST TIME, SAYING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY WANT THAT LEFT TURNOUT, I GO, WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT? AND I STARTED THINKING ABOUT IT.
UM, IF WE RESTRICT THAT LEFT TURNOUT AND FORCE PEOPLE TO THE CIRCLE, EITHER BY MAKING THEM GO OUT THE COUNTY CENTER ROAD OR GOING OUT ON A, UH, ARNOLD CONSECO TAKING A RIGHT, GOING AROUND AND BACK, MY QUESTION IS, HOW CAN WE, WHAT CAN WE DO OKAY CREATIVELY TO KEEP HIM THE HECK OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD? OKAY? TO ME, THAT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.
DOES ANYBODY WANT TO ADD ANYTHING? GO AHEAD, WALTER.
UH, ALL ALONG I REFERENCED ANECDOTAL INFORMATION FROM NORTH CAROLINA YOU JUST ADDED TO, AND THE ONLY WAY I SEE OF GETTING A FAIR, UH, DATA ON THIS IS, NUMBER ONE, YOU LOOK AT SITES OF SIMILAR DESIGN.
NO, IT MATTERS NOT WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED, IT'S THE DESIGN.
LOOK AT SITES OF SIMILAR DESIGN AND TAKE A TRAFFIC STUDY ON THE PEAK HOURS IN THE MORNING, IN THE AFTERNOON AND IN THE EVENING, AND THEN DETERMINE IF YOU HAVE SPILLOVER.
TO ME, I DON'T SEE ANY OTHER WAY.
YOU, YOU CAN DETERMINE IF YOU HAVE SPILLOVER, IF YOU DON'T TAKE A SIMILAR DESIGN AND TAKE THE TRAFFIC STUDIES DURING NOT PEAK TIME AND THEY'LL TELL YOU WHETHER OR NOT THAT DESIGN CAN ACCOMMODATE, UH, UH, THE TRAFFIC THAT YOU GET.
THE OTHER THING IS THAT, AND JOHN, YOU KNOW, PLEASE CHIME IN IF YOU THINK I'M INACCURATE.
THAT THE DATA FROM WHAT THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF TRAFFIC ENGINEERS IS BASED UPON AVERAGES, RIGHT? SO IF YOU TAKE, UH, THE MCDONALD'S AND THE KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN AND THE, AND THE STANDARD TYPE OF FOOD, UH, UH, UM, UH, INDUSTRIES, AND WHICH I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT THE DATA IS BASED UPON, THAT'S NOT REFLECTIVE OF CHICK-FIL-A BECAUSE YOU DON'T FIT INTO THAT MOLD.
YOU DON'T SEE THE AMOUNT OF CARS COMING INTO A MCDONALD'S OR ROY ROGERS THAT YOU DO ON CHICK-FIL-A MAYBE THAT'S BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BETTER PRODUCT AND YOU DO MORE MARKETING, BUT YOU DO NOT FIT THAT MOLD.
YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF THAT AVERAGE.
SO THE DATA THAT'S GENERATED IN TERMS OF, OF THE TRAFFIC FOR DRIVING IS GOOD INFORMATION TO HAVE.
BUT YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO CHICK-FIL-A BECAUSE YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF THE NORM, SO YOU'RE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMY.
YOU HAVE A GREAT BUSINESS, A LOT OF CUSTOMERS, SO THAT DATA DOESN'T FIT.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE POINT I DON'T WANT TO MAKE.
UH, AND, AND THEN THE OTHER ISSUE IS, UH, UH, THE ONE OF EMISSIONS LAST WEEK OR TWO WEEKS AGO, THE WORLD
[00:35:01]
ENVIRONMENTAL MEETING, THE WORLD MISSED EVERY ONE OF ITS MAJOR, UH, ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS.THE WHOLE WORLD MISSED ALL OF THEIR ENVIRONMENTAL GOALS.
YOU SEE? SO WE ARE STARTING OUT ON A VERY POOR POSITION.
THE WHOLE WORLD IS, AND YOU HAVE, I COUNTED THAT.
THAT'S HERE AGAIN, THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO DO THIS, THE, THE STUDY.
BECAUSE IN NORTH CAROLINA, I COUNTED 30 CARS IN THE QUEUE AND ANOTHER 70 WRAPPED AROUND AND OUT TO THE PARKING LOT.
I SAW A HUNDRED CARS IN THE QUEUE IDLING.
I MEAN, THAT DOESN'T, YOU KNOW, THAT DOESN'T SIT WELL WITH, WITH, UH, WITH THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE WITH GLOBAL WARMING.
SO THOSE ARE MY THREE CONCERNS.
ANY, ANYBODY ELSE HAVE COMMENTS? MICHAEL? OKAY.
LEMME JUST, LEMME JUST GET MY THOUGHTS TOGETHER.
I, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DISCUSSION ABOUT IDLING.
I KNOW NOBODY LIKES THE FUMES THAT ARE SPEWED OUT WHILE THE CAR'S IDLE, SO ON AND SO FORTH.
BUT DRIVE-THROUGHS ARE PERMITTED IN GREENBURG.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IDLING, THEN BAND DRIVE-THROUGHS IN GREENBURG.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHICK-FIL-A COULD DO WITH THE IDLING SITUATION.
I CAN'T, THAT'S PART OF THEIR BUSINESS PLAN.
THEY'VE GOT A NON DRIVE-THROUGH GOING IN MIDWAY.
BUT IF YOU DON'T LIKE IDLING, DON'T ALLOW SPECIAL PERMITS FOR DRIVE-THROUGHS.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY WE'RE BRINGING THIS UP TO THIS CANDIDATE.
THE SECOND ONE AFTER, IF I CAN ANSWER IT IF YOU WANT ME TO, WELL, LET ME FINISH, THEN YOU CAN, THEN YOU CAN ANSWER.
UM, NOW YOU, YOU SUBMITTED DATA ON FOUR CHICK-FIL-A LOCATIONS WITH THE DOUBLE DRIVE-THROUGH.
YEAH, I, WE SUBMITTED DATA ON THE MOST RECENT SUBMISSION.
YOU DIDN'T SUBMIT ANY QUEUING DATA THOUGH, JUST CUING.
IT WAS FOR THE ORIGINAL FOUR, RIGHT? I MEAN, CAN YOU PROVIDE QUEUING DATA FOR THOSE 12? SO TO GO BACK TO THE, THE CHAIRMAN'S POINT, SORRY, IF YOU WANNA SPEAK, LET'S JUST, JUST TO JUMP BACK TO THE, THE QUEUING CONCERN AND, AND WHY WE'RE NOT, UM, SUBMITTING THE DATA, AND THIS SEEMS LIKE A COMMUNICATION ISSUE AND, AND I APOLOGIZE, IT'S NOT THE INFORMATION YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, BUT WE HAD MULTIPLE CALLS MAKING SURE WE WERE PROVIDING THE INFORMATION THAT WAS ASKED FOR AND, AND THAT'S WHAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE DOING.
SO WHAT WE DID ON THOSE FOUR SITES IS WE ACTUALLY SAT IN THE PARKING LOT COLLECTED 120 HOURS OF DATA TO CHICK-FIL-A TWO SIMILAR FACILITIES TO MAKE SURE IT'S CHICK-FIL-A SPECIFIC DATA THAT WE'RE COMPARING OUR SITE TO, TO YOUR EXACT REASONING OF YOU CAN'T COMPARE IT TO A MCDONALD'S BURGER KING.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE DID ON THOSE FOUR SITES.
OUR UNDERSTANDING AT, AT THE LAST MEETING AND SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE GOT WAS, OKAY, THOSE, THOSE FOUR WERE GOOD, BUT WE WANT TO SEE MORE, UM, COMPARABLE SITES OUT OF 3000 LOCATIONS.
THERE'S GOTTA BE MORE COMPARABLE SITES.
SO OUR FIRST EFFORT TO FIND COMPARABLE SITES WAS TO GO THROUGH THAT PROCESS THAT WE OUTLINED IN OUR REPORT OF ANALYZING, OKAY? WE FIRST STARTED IN THE NORTHEAST REGION.
WE GOT WITH ALL THE CORPORATE CHICK-FIL-A FOLKS IN THE NORTHEAST REGION.
OKAY? EVERYBODY SEND US YOUR PROJECTS THAT YOU'VE DONE IN THE PAST THREE YEARS.
AND I SAY THREE YEARS BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN THIS NEW PROGRAM WITH THE DUAL DRIVE THROUGH LAYOUT CAME OUT.
WE'VE GOT A FEW DOZEN OF SITES THAT CAME TO US.
WE THEN ASSESSED THEM, OKAY, IF THEY'RE IN A SHOPPING CENTER, HAVE OVERFLOW PARKING, UM, CAPACITY, THROW THOSE OUT.
THAT'S HOW WE NARROWED IT DOWN TO THESE 12 SITES.
SO THESE 12 SITES ARE MOST REFLECTIVE OF THE SITE DESIGN AND THE LAYOUT WE HAVE.
THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED TO PROVIDE YOU WAS, OKAY, WHAT ARE THE SITES THAT ARE MOST SIMILAR TO HERE? AND THOSE ARE THE SITE PLANS AND THE DATA THAT WE PROVIDED.
LET'S AGREE ON THOSE SITES BEING COMPARABLE TO THIS SITE.
AND IF NOW THE REQUEST IS, OKAY, NOW LET'S NARROW IT DOWN AND GET SOME MORE ADDITIONAL QUEUING DATA ON THOSE SITES TO SUPPLEMENT AND CONFIRM THE QUEUING DATA THAT WE HAVE FOR THE OTHER FOUR.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADING NEXT.
BUT I APOLOGIZE THAT WASN'T INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL DATA FOR THE RECORD.
WHETHER YOU UNDERSTOOD IT OR NOT.
I'VE CLEAR WE'VE BEEN CRYSTAL CLEAR ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WHEN WALTER AND, AND SOMEBODY ELSE BROUGHT UP THE ANECDOTAL, HAD SEEN SOMETHING SOMEWHERE ELSE.
I SAID, I WON'T ACCEPT ANECDOTAL DATA.
[00:40:01]
OKAY.I SAID THAT AND I SAID ALL ALONG, I REALLY LIKE THE DATA.
THE WAY YOU DID THIS WORK WAS GREAT 'CAUSE OH, THAT'S REALLY UNDERSTANDABLE.
I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THOSE FOUR.
NOW, IF I COULD HAVE THAT FOR A BROADER THING AND I, IT'S CLEAR.
GO LOOK AT THE RECORD WHETHER YOU'VE UNDERSTOOD IT OR NOT.
I JUST DON'T WANT THE RECORD TO STATE THAT THIS IS NEW 'CAUSE IT'S NOT.
I WON'T LET THE RECORD STATE THAT.
THE, YOU'VE GOTTEN HALFWAY THERE.
I'D WANT JOHN TO LOOK OVER THOSE, JOHN CANNING TO LOOK OVER THOSE TOO, TO MAKE SURE THOSE ARE, HE BELIEVES THEY'RE COMPARABLE SITES.
IF HE THINKS THEY'RE COMPARABLE SITES AND IF HE THINKS HE'S COMFORTABLE OUT HAVE HIM A PINE LATER WITH 12 SITES TO DO THIS, THEN WE MAY, WE MAY HAVE A SOLUTION TO THIS.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE PROBLEM I HAVE.
EVERYBODY'S FOCUSED ON THE GRAND OPENING AND ALL THAT STUFF.
I'M NOT FOCUSED ON THE GRAND OPENING.
SOMETHING'S SOMETHING UGLY IS GONNA HAPPEN.
OKAY, WE'RE GONNA TRY, YOU GOTTA TRY TO AVOID IT HERE.
I'M WORRIED ABOUT WHAT, WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD HAS TO LIVE WITH ONGOING.
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.
AND THIS IS A VERY STRANGE LOCATION.
IT'S NOT A SQUARE LOT, IT'S A TRIANGULAR LOT.
THERE'S NO DIRECT ACCESS ONTO A MAIN ROAD.
THAT SIDE ROAD HAPPENS TO BE THE, THE PRIMARY FEEDER ROAD INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND YOU'VE GOT EVENTS HAPPENING AGAIN, BY THE WAY, I'M LESS CONCERNED ABOUT THE EVENTS.
IF CRAP HAPPENS A DAY OF THE WHITE PLANES AT GRADUATION, WHICH YOU PROBABLY WILL BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL GONNA COME OVER OVER THERE RIGHT AFTERWARDS AND PEOPLE ARE GONNA GO ON LIKE THIS.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE DAYS LIKE THAT.
I DON'T, THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME.
THAT I WANT TO BE COMFORTABLE AND IF I KNEW THAT THAT DATA WAS REPRESENTATIVE, IF I, IF I KNEW THAT WAS FOR REPRESENTATIVE, WHICH I, I DON'T OF WHAT THIS IS GOING TO BE.
IF I WAS, IF I WAS COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, WE, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT TRYING TO ARGUE THAT AT ALL.
JUST WHAT IS THE NUMBER OF COMPARABLE SITES? 'CAUSE ASKING FOR THAT QUEUING DATA COLLECTION ON 12 ADDITIONAL SITES.
THAT IS A BIG EFFORT FOR SITTING OUT IN PARKING LOTS.
THAT, THAT SEEMS UNREASONABLE.
I, I THINK, I THINK, I THINK THE MAIN THING, AND YOU KNOW, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT THE BOARD IS CONCERNED ABOUT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT DURING THE BUSIEST PARTS OF THE DAY, THE CARS DON'T BACK OUT ON LUNCH.
IT'S LUNCH, IT'S REALLY LUNCH.
I MEAN, THAT'S ALL THEY CARE ABOUT.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU CONTACTED EACH OF THESE 12 SITES, YOU KNOW, LIKE DURING THE BUSIEST PARTS OF THE DAY, WHAT ARE THE BUSIEST PARTS OF YOUR DAY, GEORGE? 12 O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON AT FIVE O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.
CALL 'EM UP AT 12 O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON.
IS ANYTHING QUEUING ADD ON TO THE STREET? NO.
WE GOT, YEAH, TAKE A, TAKE A PICTURE.
WE GOT, WE GOT ROOM FOR 20 CARS.
THERE ARE ONLY 10 IN THE QUEUE.
RIGHT? CALL 'EM UP AT FIVE O'CLOCK.
WHAT'S THE SITUATION? TAKE A PICTURE.
THAT'S ALL YOU CARE ABOUT, JOHN.
JOHN'S GONNA, I, I'D LIKE JOHN JOHN'S GOT HIS HAND UP.
JOHN, WHY DON'T YOU, I, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY HERE, SO I WHY DON'T YOU JUMP IN, PLEASE.
JOHN, UNMUTE IF YOU BE, BE BETTER IF YOU, THERE YOU GO.
UM, THE APPLICANT DID PROVIDE OBVIOUSLY INFORMATION ON LOOKING AT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S ABOUT 10 WHAT THEY SAID WERE COMPARABLE FACILITIES IN THIS REGION.
SIZE WISE, THEY, THEY ALL HAVE THE TWO DRIVE THROUGH, UH, THING.
UM, BUT IT, AND IT PROVIDED GOOD INFORMATION ON THE SIZE, THE NUMBER OF SEATS, THE SIZE OF THE LOT, THE, THE DRIVE THROUGH STACK AREA AND THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPACES.
BUT THE BOARD OBVIOUSLY HAS EXPRESSED A DESIRE TO HAVE ACTUAL COUNTS OF QUEUES.
AND I WOULD SUGGEST IF YOU'RE OUT THERE COUNTING THE QUEUES, YOU MIGHT AS WELL COUNT HOW MANY CARS ARE GOING IN AND OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY.
UM, THE QUESTION REALLY IS, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY MORE DATA POINTS DO YOU NEED? UH, THE ORIGINAL DATA WAS BASED ON FOUR SURVEYS OF FOUR FACILITIES.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REASONABLE NUMBER.
AND, AND LOOKING AT THE FACILITIES, THERE ARE FOUR THAT ARE IN OUR GENERAL AREA.
UH, THERE'S EDISON, TOWN SQUARE, HACKENSACK, WOODBRIDGE, AND LEVITTOWN.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY HAVE TO BE THOSE FOUR, BUT I THINK THE BOARD MIGHT BE FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE THAT THERE WAS A CHICK-FIL-A THAT WAS, UH,
[00:45:01]
SOMEWHERE THAT THEY WERE SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH.UM, SO MY THOUGHT IS FOUR WOULD REPLICATE WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY DONE AND THESE FOUR MIGHT BE A GOOD CANDIDATE FOR THAT.
IS THE TOWN, JUST A CLARIFICATION, JOHN TOWN SQUARE'S IN A SHOPPING CENTER THOUGH, ISN'T IT? THE ONE IN 87? I, SO I I I TRIED TO FIND IT.
IT LOOKS LIKE IT COULD BE IN A SHOPPING CENTER.
WOULD THAT BE AN ISSUE? BUT THAT DOESN'T, THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF Q.
I BELIEVE THAT'S SUPPLY DATA FOR, UM, JOHN, I I, I WOULD THINK THAT, I WOULD THINK WHETHER IT'S IN THE SHOPPING CENTER OR UH, OR NOT, COULD BE AN ISSUE BECAUSE THE FIFTH IN A SHOPPER CENTER IS GENERALLY A LARGER PARKING LOT.
SO YOU COULD STACK UP MORE CARS IN THE SHOPPING CENTER WITHOUT COMING OUT TO THE STREET.
SO I, I WOULD THINK IT'S NOT THE SAME.
WELL, TO ME, TO ME, WALTER AND JOHN, SEE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THIS TO ME IS I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT THE PARKING, THE PARKING CAPACITY YOU GUYS HAVE.
YOU GOT HAVE PLENTY OF OVERFLOW CAPACITY IN THE THERE.
THE ISSUE IS TO ME, THE NUMBER OF CARS DOES THE 33 PLUS WE ALSO HAVE THAT OPTION OF ANOTHER SIX OR WHATEVER IT WAS.
UH, IF WE WANTED BY CHANGING THE LANE, THE JOHANN PLAN 14, 14 MORE, THE, THE PLAN THAT JOHANN CAME UP WITH, JOHANN WILL COME UP BY HE'LL VOLUNTEER TO DO THAT
UM, I DON'T THINK THE ISSUE TO ME IS HOW MANY CARS ARE STACKED UP, WHETHER OR NOT THEY OVERFLOW THE PARKING LOT.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF HOW MUCH IT'S VERSUS CAPACITY.
NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S HOW MANY, AT LEAST FOR NOT FOR ME.
I DON'T CARE HOW MANY CARS YOU HAVE, I JUST DON'T WANT THEM RIGHT.
BUT THE WAY YOU DO THAT, WALTER, IS YOU LET, LET ME, LET'S, LET'S, LET'S LOOK THROUGH THE MAP.
THE WAY I SEE IT IS, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU'VE GOT, FORGET THE OVERFLOW FOR A SECOND.
YOU'VE GOT, YOU HAVE A CAPACITY RIGHT NOW WITHOUT GOING, CHANGING ANYTHING OF 33 CARS.
RIGHT? AS LONG AS WE FOUND OUT IN WHATEVER ADDITIONAL WORK WE DO, THE A THAT, THAT WE DON'T GO OVER THAT 33 CARS EXCEPT MAYBE IN AN EXCEPTIONAL DAY.
WE, WE WON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WHETHER OR NOT THE PARKING LOT HAS A HUNDRED CARS.
IT'S, IT'S THE STACK IN, IN THE DRIVE THROUGH THOUGH IS ALL, WE'RE ALL WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
AND I DON'T THINK THAT CHANGES.
WELL I, JOHN, I WOULD NO, I, NO, I, I HAVE TO STAND BY MY ORIGINAL COMMENT.
I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MANY CARS IS IN THE QUEUE.
I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT HOW MANY CARS ARE BACKED UP INTO THE DRIVE, UH, INTO THE PARKING LOT OF THE FACILITY.
MY CONCERN IS I DON'T WANT ANY CARS RIGHT.
BACKING INTO THE STREET NOW, HOW THE APPLICANT MANAGED THAT.
THAT'S, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT TO DO YOU THAT YOU'VE GOT, YOU'VE GOT, THEY MANAGE IT ANY WAY YOU WANT, WALTER, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT SPACE FOR 33 CARS.
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING ON THIS PARTICULAR LOT.
SO IF, LET'S SAY ONE OF THESE, I DON'T THINK IT'S TRUE.
I MEAN SOME OF ARE A LITTLE BIT SMALL.
I THINK THEY'RE 28 OR SOMETHING, IF I REMEMBER ON THE LIST, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
LET, LET'S SAY ONE OF THEM IS 24.
OKAY? AND THERE ARE 32 CARS IN THE PARKED ON THE STREET.
THE CAPACITY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AT THE PROJECT WE'RE WORKING ON.
IT'S WOULD IT GO OVER OUR CAPACITY? THAT TO ME IS THE QUESTION, DOES IT OVERFILL OUR CAPACITY AND GO ONTO TO O CONSECO ROAD? THAT TO ME IS THE ISSUE.
SO WE'RE SAYING THE SAME THING.
THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I'M CAN SAY, A LITTLE BIT OF AN UNPOPULAR OPINION.
I I THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION BASED ON THE SITES THAT WERE PROVIDED, THE DISCUSSIONS WE'VE HAD ABOUT PARKING ALREADY.
TO ME, THE MAIN CONCERNS, UM, RESPECTFULLY, UH, THE, UM, ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE, I GOOGLE IT WHILE WE WERE HERE TALKING AND CHICK-FIL-A IS NUMBER FOUR.
NUMBER FOUR WHAT IN TERMS OF FASTEST, UH, DRIVE-THROUGH SERVICES.
OKAY, YOU HAD TACO BELL, CARL, JUNIOR, KFC.
WHEN WAS THIS ARTICLE WRITTEN? MM-HMM.
YOU GOT IT WRONG A SECOND THERE.
THIS WAS AS OF OCTOBER 2ND, 2023 K QSR MAGAZINE.
LET ME
QSR MAGAZINE, THEY'RE VERY EFFICIENT.
Q CHICK-FIL-A IS ONE, ONE OF THE MOST EFFICIENT QSRS PER CAR.
BUT IN TERMS OF WAITING TIME, THEY'RE NEAR THE BOTTOM BECAUSE OF THE NUMBER OF CARS IN THEIR STACK VERSUS EVERYBODY ELSE.
THERE ARE 2D THERE'RE TWO DIFFERENT, TWO DIFFERENT, UH,
[00:50:02]
NUMBERS.SO THE AVERAGE WEIGHT IS FIVE MINUTES, 12 SECONDS FOR A CAR.
OKAY? DURING THAT TIMEFRAME, IF WE ASSUME THE AVERAGE WEIGHT, THE AVERAGE ORDER TAKES ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
THE ACTUAL ORDER PLACEMENT FROM THE TIME THE PERSON COMES INTO THE LOT, EVEN IF IT'S BACKED ALL THE WAY UP, COULD BE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES, WHICH IS SEEMS ABOUT AVERAGE.
WE DIDN'T GET, I'M TALKING ABOUT FOR EACH CAR TO GET SERVICE, WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE NEXT CAR MOVES UP, IT'S FIVE MINUTES BEFORE THE NEXT CAR MOVES UP.
GENTLEMEN, GENTLEMEN, WHY? THE, THE POINT I'M MAKING IS, I'M SORRY, THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THE, THE CARS WILL BE IDLING AT THE RATES THAT THE CARS ARE BEING SERVICED, RIGHT? YEAH.
SO AS THE CARS ARE MOVING IN BETWEEN THE MOVES, IT'S GONNA BE ABOUT A FIVE MINUTE WAIT BEFORE IT MOVES UP TO THE NEXT NEXT SPOT, RIGHT? WHICH ISN'T VERY DIFFERENT THAN THE OTHER FAST FOOD OR HOWEVER YOU WANNA PHRASE IT, RESTAURANTS THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
SO, YOU KNOW, RESPECTFULLY, WE DO WANT TO SEE IF AND HOW WE COULD HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT THE ENVIRONMENT IS WHAT IT IS AT THIS POINT.
IN INCLUDING IF WE COULD CLARIFY, BUT WE ARE GOING, MAY I SAY SOMETHING? WHAT QUESTION, WHAT QUESTION DID YOU HAVE ABOUT THE MATH? IF I HAVE ONLY THREE CUSTOMERS AND IT TAKES ME FIVE MINUTES TO SERVE EACH ONE OF THOSE CUSTOMERS MINUTES, THAT'S ONLY THREE CUSTOMERS.
IF I HAVE 50 CUSTOMERS AND IT TAKES FIVE MINUTES AND THERE'S 50 PEOPLE WAITING, THAT'S A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, RIGHT? COMPLETELY AGREE.
I'M NOT, I'M NOT, I'M NOT MAKING THAT POINT THEN I'D LIKE TO HEAR THE POINT I'M MAKING.
LET ME, LET ME JUST FINISH MY POINT.
THE POINT I'M MAKING IS THAT SITUATION IS WHAT IT IS, REGARDLESS OF THE DESIGN, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO IMPACT THAT BECAUSE IT EXISTS.
WE WE NEED TO GO LOOK AT DRIVE-THROUGHS.
THE POINT I'M MAKING IS, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
WHAT, WHAT WE'RE LIMITED TO, UM, EVALUATING IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROJECT MAKES SENSE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND THE ONLY REAL IMPACTS ARE THE TRAFFIC SITUATION.
UM, BEST AS I COULD TELL, THE MAJOR IMPACTS THE TRAFFIC SITUATION IF IT'S GONNA GO THROUGH THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR IF WE'RE GONNA TURN LEFT ON ON, UM, OUT ACROSS THE STREET.
FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, FROM WHAT I'VE READ, THEY'VE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT THAT THAT RESTAURANT, THAT PROPERTY IS GOING TO BE OCCUPIED BY A RESTAURANT THAT HAD THE SAME TRAFFIC VOLUME AS NESTOS PREVIOUSLY DID.
SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, RIGHT? SO THEY DID THEIR HOMEWORK ON THAT END.
WE HAVE, UH, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT ROAD? BEHIND COUNTY CENTER? COUNTY CENTER ROAD.
THEY'VE OFFERED TO STRIPE THE ROAD FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING IN THE EVENT THAT IT GETS TOO CRAZY ON THE LOT ITSELF TO BE ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE.
SO ASIDE FROM THE INEVITABLE TRAFFIC THAT'S GOING TO GO AROUND THAT, UH, ROUNDABOUT, WHICH HAS TO BE APPROPRIATELY SIGNED SO PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT'S NOT AN EXIT THROUGH, THROUGH THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
I, I DON'T, I DON'T SEE WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE FIRST OF ALL.
ONE SECOND, THEN I'LL GO TO YOU AND I WANT, I WANT, I THINK YOU HAD SOMETHING TO SAY AND I WANNA HEAR FROM JOHN AGAIN.
FIRST OF ALL, UNDER SEEKER MM-HMM.
OKAY? WE HAVE ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT AN ENVIRONMENT ABOUT CREATING AN ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE UNDER SEEKER.
I MEAN, IF SOMEBODY STARTED WANTED TO BURN TRASH, OKAY.
SO, SO THAT'S THE, THAT THAT'S TRUE UNDER SEEKER WALTER.
AND IF YOU HAD TOLD ME RIGHT, WALTER, RIGHT NOW WE DOING A LOT OF SPECULATION AND THEN SAY, UH, ABOUT WHAT THE EFFECT WILL BE.
WHAT WHEN WE COULD DO A REAL LIVE EXPERIMENT AND DETERMINE IT BY JUST COUNTING THE NUMBER OF CARS IN THE PEAK HOURS, RIGHT.
THEN WE DON'T HAVE TO SPECULATE.
I THINK WE HAVE IN TERMS OF THE DISCUSSION DOESN'T THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE, BUT YEAH, BUT I'M SAYING SPECULATING WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE ENOUGH PARKING OR WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.
JUST RUN THE EXPERIMENT AND WE'LL GET THE DATA RIGHT.
I'M SORRY, WHAT? SO WITH RESPECT TO THE ENVIRONMENT, THE NUMBER WHERE, WHAT THE, THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CARS IN THE PEAK HOURS WHERE IN, IN THE DRIVE THROUGH OR THE PARKING LOTION? THE TOTAL, YOU WANNA SEE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF WHETHER OR NOT THE KEY POINT, WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE SPILL OUT, THE KEY IS TO SPILL OUT.
WE, WE DON'T WHAT LOCATION ARE WE USING FOR THE GAS? WELL AGAIN, THEY, WE SAID THAT THEY HAVE LOCATIONS THAT ARE DESIGNED SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT THEY PLAN.
SO YOU LOCATE THOSE FACILITIES WITH A SIMILAR DESIGN.
[00:55:01]
THEY ALREADY DID THAT INFORMATION FOR FOUR FACILITIES.YEAH, BUT THEY DIDN'T IDENTIFIED ANOTHER 12.
BUT THEY DID, THEY DID NOT GIVE US PEAK HOUR DATA.
IS THAT ON THE FOURTH? THE FOUR? THEY DID THE FOUR WAS GREAT.
I MEAN IT WAS, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THOSE FOUR FOUR.
BUT HANG ON, LEMME JUST, DID YOU GIVE THE PEAK HOUR DATA ON THE FOUR LOCATIONS? YEAH, WE DID.
YOU DID? THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.
ANOTHER QUESTION JUST QUICKLY, UM, ON THE CURRENT PLAN, THERE ARE TWO DRIVE-THROUGHS.
HOW MANY CARS IN EACH ONE? 16, RIGHT? MAX 16.
OKAY, QUESTION IF I PULL IN AND THERE WERE 16 CARS AHEAD OF ME, HOW MANY MEL MINUTES WILL IT TAKE BETWEEN THE TIME I PULL IN TO THE END OF THAT QUEUE AND GO OUT WITH MY FOOD? THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING PIECES TO THAT ABOUT RIGHT? THE AVERAGE THAT WE GOT IS SIMILAR TO THE ONE, UM, MEMBER'S RESPONSE WAS FOUR TO FIVE MINUTES AVERAGE WAIT TIME FOR A CHICK-FIL-A SO YOU COULD BE ABLE FOR HOUR WAIT, HANG ON, FOUR TO FIVE MINUTES.
THAT'S WHEN YOU ENTER TO WHEN YOU EXIT THE DRIVE-THROUGH.
SEE THAT? BECAUSE KEEP IN MIND THE PEAK HOUR IS ONLY AN HOUR OF THE DAY.
LET'S, LET'S GO BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE JUST SAYING BECAUSE WHAT YOU SAID DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
THERE IS NO WAY YOU'RE SERVICING A CAR EVERY 20 SECONDS.
OKAY? IT DOESN'T NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING.
IS IT FIVE MINUTES PER CAR? NO, NO, NO.
YOU ORDER YOUR FOOD OR YOU WANT TO GO GET A CHICKEN SANDWICH, ON AVERAGE, IT'S GONNA TAKE ABOUT FOUR TO FIVE MINUTES FOR YOU TO GET YOUR SANDWICH.
WELL, HOW MANY CARS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? I'M I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU.
IF YOU WANT TO GO AND GET YOUR SANDWICH, IF YOU HAVE 33, IF YOU HAVE 16 CARS IN THE STACK, OKAY, LET'S TAKE ONE STACK.
OKAY? YOU 16 CARS IN THE STACK.
HOW, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PROCESS PER CAR? THIS IS AN SAT QUESTION.
WE'RE DOING A LOT OF SCENARIOS.
I'LL, I'LL MAKE A, I'LL MAKE IT SIMPLER.
AVERAGE IS OBSERVE OF FOOD IS AROUND FOUR TO FIVE MINUTES DRIVE.
DRIVE THROUGH HOW MANY CARS PICK UP THEIR FOOD AT THE PICKUP WINDOW EVERY MINUTE? DON'T KNOW.
NOBODY KNOWS HOW FAST THE MOVES.
IT'S NOT, I BET YOU IT'S NOT MORE THAN ONE A MINUTE.
IF EVERY CAR, IT TAKES ABOUT FIVE MINUTES AND YOU JOIN AT THE TAIL END OF 15 BILL HOUR, YOU'RE LOOKING AT 80 MINUTES TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.
HE'S SAYING ON AVERAGE, AND HE DOESN'T KNOW THE QUEUE.
ON AVERAGE, IF YOU GO TO A CHICK-FIL-A SOMETIME OF THE DAY, BETWEEN THE TIME YOU DRIVE INTO THE QUEUE AND GO OUT WITH YOUR SANDWICH, IT'S FIVE MINUTES.
DIDN'T I SEND YOU THAT DATA? RIGHT? ROUGHLY.
SO THE WAY THE DRIVE THROUGH IS BUILT IS AROUND THE CAPACITY OF THE KITCHEN.
I THE DATA, HOW LONG IT ACTUALLY TAKES.
THEIR SERVICE, THE, THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE MENU BOARDS TO THE PICKUP WINDOW IS BY DESIGN.
SO THEIR KITCHEN HAS CAPACITY FOR SIX MEALS AT SIX TIMES.
SO THEY CAN ESSENTIALLY MAKE SIX MEALS AT THE SAME TIME.
HERE IS THE ISSUE THOUGH, YOU'RE NOT AT THE MENU BOARD BOARD WHEN YOU'RE IN THE STACK.
HOW MANY, HOW FAR? WE'RE GETTING WAY OFF.
BECAUSE THE QUESTION IS NOT FROM WHEN YOU GET TO ORDER TO WHEN YOU PICK UP.
IT'S FROM WHEN YOU DRIVE IN AND GET INTO THE QUEUE TO WHEN YOU PICK UP.
AND I GUARANTEE IT'S MORE LIKE 20, 25 MINUTES.
IN FACT, I THINK THAT'S THE ACTUAL NUMBER.
DO WE HAVE DATA ON THE QUEUING TIME AT PEAK HOUR QUESTION? I WANNA GO BACK TO JOHN, BUT WITH, WITH REGARDS TO SEEKER AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.
WITH REGARDS TO SEEKER AND THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, EXHAUST FOR THE MOST PART.
HOW ARE WE MEASURING? WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO MEASURE IT.
WHAT I, WHAT I THINK WE, AND, AND JOE, YOU MAY BE, I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO THIS.
I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A SECRET FI FINDING E EVEN IF WE MAKE DECK THIS, OKAY.
THAT WE NEED TO MAKE A SECRET FINDING THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THESE FACILITIES GOING THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT IF THESE KINDS OF FACILITIES PROLIFERATE THEMSELVES AND MAKE SOME KIND OF COMMENT.
THAT'S FAIR, RIGHT? JOE? TO SAY SOMETHING, MAKE SOME KIND OF COMMENT ABOUT OUR CONCERN ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OF DRIVE-THROUGHS AND THAT WE SHOULD BE LOOKING INTO IT AS A, AS A TOWN, UH, GOING FORWARD WITHOUT DOING IMPACT IN THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION.
WAS HE GONNA FINISH JUDGE THE ATTORNEY? I WAS ASKING JOE ATTORNEY.
JOHN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE BEEN HAVING THAT EXPERIENCE AS WELL, BUT I, I THINK THAT DOES MAKE SENSE FROM WHAT I HEARD.
AND I THINK WE DO NEED TO CLARIFY SOMEBODY'S NUMBERS A LITTLE MORE, WHAT IT MEANS TO BE SERVICED WITHIN FIVE MINUTES WHEN THAT FIVE MINUTES BEGINS.
IT'S NOT BECAUSE I JUST, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE
[01:00:01]
A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING RIGHT NOW ABOUT THAT.DON'T, JOHN, JOHN, WHAT? LET'S, LET'S TRY TO BRING THIS TO A HEAD BECAUSE WE'RE GONNA, I DON'T WANNA GO IN CIRCLES.
WE, WE'VE GOT FOUR FACILITIES, WHICH MAY BE REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WE'RE GONNA SEE.
MAY NOT BE BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC WE SEE ON, ON ONE 19.
WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO? DO YOU THINK WE NEED FIRST, DO WE NEED TO ADD SOME TRAFFIC, SOME KIND OF COUNT STUDY JUST AT, ON THE, WE KNOW WHAT THE PEAK PERIOD IS.
IS IT, I MEAN, THAT'S NOT A SECRET.
IT'S LIKE 1130 TO, TO TWO OR WHATEVER.
IT'S, IT'S LUNCHTIME, RIGHT? IT'S LIKE 60 70% OF CHICK-FIL-A'S BUSINESSES I THINK DURING THAT ONE, THAT ONE PERIOD, I THINK.
IT'S VERY HARD TO, TO DO THIS.
JOHN, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO? SO YOU HAVE, AS I HEAR YOU RIGHT NOW, HAVE TWO ISSUES BEFORE YOU.
THE FIRST ONE IS TRAFFIC AND WHETHER OR NOT A WOULD QA OFF THE SCREEN, AND I'M QUALIFIED TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
YOU'VE BEEN PROVIDED DATA FROM FOUR SITES THAT SHOW THAT YOU HAVE ADEQUATE QUEUING, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE AND THE BOARD IS APPARENTLY NOT COMFORTABLE YET WITH THAT INFORMATION.
AND YOU WOULD LIKE, I THINK, MORE INFORMATION TO CONFIRM THAT THE INFORMATION YOU ALREADY HAVE IS CORRECT.
THAT THERE IS ADEQUATE CAPACITY AND IT WILL NOT QUEUE ADD ONTO THE STREET.
SO MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE THAT THE APPLICANT GO BACK AND SELECT A NUMBER OF FACILITIES THAT THEY THINK WILL SATISFY
YOU'RE THIRST FOR INFORMATION AND DO A LUNCHTIME, AT LEAST A LUNCHTIME QUEUE SURVEY OF THOSE FACILITIES.
IF YOU'RE OUT THERE AND THEY COULD DO A A, AN OVERALL COUNT, I THINK IT WOULD HELP BOLSTER THE RECORD.
THEY WILL COME BACK NEXT MONTH HOPEFULLY WITH THAT INFORMATION.
AND IT WOULD BE SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY PROVIDED YOU BEFORE OR NOT.
THE SECOND ISSUE IS, JOHN, BEFORE YOU GO ON, OKAY.
DO, WOULD YOU THINK IF THEY DID ANOTHER FOUR 12 SEEMS A LITTLE EXCESSIVE, RIGHT? IF THEY DID ANOTHER FOUR AND CAME BACK WITH, WITH DATA THAT IS REASONABLY CONSISTENT WITH THE FOUR THAT WE ALREADY GOT, WOULD YOU BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT? I MEAN, YES.
AND THE REASON IS THE, THE INTENT IS NOT TO STUDY THIS THING REPEATEDLY UNTIL WE FIND ONE LOCATION THAT DOESN'T WORK AND THEN SAY, AHA, THIS ONE IS NOT GOING TO WORK.
SO WE, WE'VE ALREADY DONE FOUR.
IF WE DO ANOTHER FOUR AND IT'S CONSISTENT, THE DATA INDICATES THAT IT SHOULD WORK.
THERE'S NO GUARANTEES IN LIFE, BUT THE, THE LAW OF AVERAGES SAYS THERE'S PROBABLY A 95% CHANCE THAT THIS THING WAS GONNA WORK IF WE GET ANOTHER FOUR DATA POINTS BACK.
WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THAT WE JUST DO THE PEAK PERIOD, OR YOU THINK WE NEED TO DO, DO THE WHOLE DAY PART? OR MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER.
ONCE YOU'RE OUT THERE, YOU'RE OUT THERE, I DON'T KNOW, PEAK PERIOD.
I DON'T THINK WE NEED, I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO DO THE WHOLE DAY THE WEEK.
IF IT WORKS IN THE PEAK PERIOD, IT'LL WORK FOR THE REST OF THE DAY.
SO I'M TRYING, I'M TRYING TO GET THIS DOWN FOR YOU GUYS.
SO FOUR LOCATIONS, PP THESE OF THIS LIST DURING PEAK LUNCH, SAY 11 TO ONE, IS THAT PEAK? YEP.
JOHN, DO YOU WANNA GO OVER THE LIST? UM, OFF, NOT TONIGHT, BUT, AND JUST GET BACK, UH, THROUGH MATT, WHICH FOUR YOU'D PICK.
SO IF, IF, UH, I, I, I HAD SUGGESTED THE ONES THAT, THAT ARE IN THE NEW YORK METRO AREA.
UM, WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE, BUT YOU KNOW, NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND OR NEW JERSEY, OR HOW ABOUT PICK AT LEAST ONE OR TWO? IT'S ALL KIND OF THE SAME CIRCLE IF ACCEPTABLE TO THIS.
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY IF ACCEPTABLE TO THIS BOARD, MAYBE WE'LL SHOOT YOU THE LIST OF FOUR AND MAKE SURE YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH IT BEFORE WE COUNT 'EM.
THAT'S ALL, THAT'S ALL I'D ASK THAT.
I, I WILL, WE'LL TRUST WHATEVER JOHN'S JUDGMENT IS HERE ON THAT.
THAT'S THE POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
BECAUSE I, I THOUGHT I READ ALL THIS INFORMATION AND YOU SAID THAT THE PEAK PERIOD DATA IS IN THE, IS IN THE, FOR THE FOUR WE, WE GOT THAT MONTHS AGO.
THAT WAS IN OUR INITIAL APPLICATION.
THAT WAS A PREVIOUS, YEAH, I WAS ON THE PREVIOUS ONE.
YEAH, THERE WAS, THEY DID, BUT THIS TIME WAS IDENTIFIED 12 FACILITIES THAT WERE SIMILAR BUT DIDN'T DO THE COUNT YET.
THAT'S ALL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
YOU DON'T NEED TO DO 12, YOU DON'T NEED TO DO 20, 24, 7.
YOU CAN DO A PEAK PERIOD, AND THESE ARE MOST COMPARABLE TO OURS.
JOHN, HOW MANY DAYS DO YOU NEED TO DO, DO TWO OR THREE DAYS? WHAT DO YOU NEED? UH, ONE DO DO
[01:05:01]
DO A, DO A WEEKDAY AND A SATURDAY AND LUNCHTIME, LET'S CALL IT, UH, QUITS AT ABOUT A FOUR LOCATIONS.WEEKDAY AND SATURDAY AT EACH LOCATION.
SO SATURDAY LUNCHTIME, DAY LUNCHTIME.
NOW WHAT WAS YOUR, YOUR SECOND POINT, JOHN, GO AHEAD.
THE SECOND POINT WAS THAT THE, THAT THE IDLING, AND THERE WAS A LOT RELATED TO IT, HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET THROUGH THE CHICK-FIL-A BUT I THINK THE KEY POINT WAS THE IDLING, UH, CONTRIBUTES TO AIR POLLUTION.
AND THAT'S A CONCERN FROM THE BOARD.
SO LI LISTENING TO THE BOARD, IF IT HELPS YOU, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET YOUR SANDWICH.
WHAT MATTERS IS HOW LONG YOU ARE IDLING AND IN THE QUEUE ADMITTING QUEUES.
IT IS NOT, IT IS NOT MY AREA OF EXPERTISE TO SAY HOW BIG AN ISSUE THAT IS OR IS NOT.
UM, WHAT I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THERE ARE TRAFFIC SIGNALS ALL OVER THE COUNTY WHERE YOU CAN SPEND FIVE MINUTES WAITING THROUGH.
I'M, I'M THINKING OF THE SALT RIVER PARKWAY AT LAWRENCE STREET IS JUST ONE THAT POPS INTO MY HEAD.
HOW ABOUT ONE 19 AT RUSH HOUR, RIGHT IN FRONT OF, FRONT OF THE SITE?
IF IT IS, IF IT IS THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM, THEN WE NEED TO TAKE A HARDER LOOK.
I GO THROUGH THAT INTERSECTION TWICE A DAY, BUT USUALLY IT'S NOT IN RUSH HOUR.
JOHN, I'M SORRY, I JUST WANTED TO REPLY FOR ME ON THE THIRD, UH, THE, THE THIRD ISSUE, UM, YOU REALLY WERE THAT TURN.
SO, UM, THE APPLICANT IS MOVING THE LEFT TURN AWAY FROM METOS.
IT'S PROBABLY MOVING, BUT I'M GONNA SAY 70 FEET.
MAYBE THE APPLICANT CAN CONFIRM THAT FURTHER AWAY, FURTHER AWAY FROM THE SIGNAL THEY'VE LOOKED AT THE QUEUES.
IT SHOULD BE IT, IT SHOULD BE OKAY.
THEY'VE AGREED TO A POST OPENING STUDY JUST TO CONFIRM THAT THE LEFT TURN IS NOT AN ISSUE.
THEY'VE AGREED TO PROHIBIT THE LEFT TURN IF IT IS AN ISSUE.
SO IT DID NOT LINE UP ANYMORE.
UM, WE ALSO RECENTLY BROUGHT UP THE ISSUE THAT RIGHT NOW THE NORTHBOUND LANE, THAT'S THE LANE THAT GOES INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND IF I'M TURNING OFF A FOUR 19 AND I GO TO NESTOS, RIGHT.
AND IF I WANTED TO GO TO NESTOS AND I HAD TO WAIT BECAUSE THERE WAS A QUEUE OR WHATEVER, PEOPLE CAN GET AROUND ME.
SO THE LATEST PLAN, AND, AND MR. GREENY, DR.
GREENY IS SITTING THERE, HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO NOD AND CONFIRM THIS.
THE LATEST PLAN THEY SENT OVER SHOWED THAT THEY WERE GOING TO WIDEN THE, UH, OLD KENGO ROAD TO MAINTAIN THAT 18 FOOT WIDTH.
UM, I FEEL BETTER WITH THE LEFT NOW.
THAT WAS ONE OF JOHN'S COMMENTS.
SO YOU'D LEAVE THE LEFT IN AND, AND WHAT WE PROBABLY SHOULD DO IS REVIEW THE TRA IF, ASSUMING WE GO AHEAD WITH THIS, WE LEAVE THE LEFT IN, UNLESS IT'S PROBLEMATIC, WE LEAVE IT THERE.
IF WE FIND AN ISSUE, WE CAN ALWAYS RESTRICT IT LATER.
IS THAT WHAT YOU YES, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT DOESN'T AGREED TO.
ANYTHING ELSE GUYS, UH, THAT YOU WANT THAT YOU WANNA SAY ON THIS? I MEAN, I THINK WE NOW HAVE A DESIGN, AISHA, AISHA, YOU HAVE SOMETHING? YEAH, IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS ANSWERED, BUT I THINK THAT THE FOCUS OF THE BOARD SHOULD BE ON, AND FORGIVE ME FOR SAYING THIS, ASSUMING THAT THERE WILL BE SPILLOVER IN THE PEAK HOURS, AND THEN IS THE PLAN THAT THEY HAVE TO MITIGATE THAT SUFFICIENT FOR US? IT SHOULDN'T REALLY BE FOCUSED ON THE DATA BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY GONNA SHOW THAT IT IS POSSIBLE AND HIGHLY LIKELY THAT IT WILL BE SPILLOVER DURING THOSE PEAK HOURS.
SO IS THE PLAN TO MITIGATE THAT SUFFICIENT? THERE ACTUALLY ARE TWO, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO MITIGATE IT.
AND ONE OF THEM WAS WHAT JOHAN DID THAT THE, YOU WANNA SHOW WHAT THE, THE, THE FLEXIBLE LANE CAN I USE? YEAH, YOU CAN USE THAT MIC, SURE.
AGAIN, PHILIP GREELEY FROM COLLIERS.
SO, UH, THE JOHANN HAD BROUGHT UP THE IDEA OF PROVIDING MORE STACKING THAN THE 33 SPACES.
AND WE HAD THAT CONCEPT JUST FOR THE GRAND OPENING.
HOWEVER, THE, THE LAYOUT THAT WE HAVE NOW, UH, CAN BE IMPLEMENTED ANY DAY AND, AND WE PUT TOGETHER A TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT PLAN, WHICH WE'LL FINE TUNE TOGETHER WITH JOHN, BUT THE PLAN IS WHERE THE TEAM MEMBERS WOULD ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT THIS.
AND NOT ONLY DO WE PICK UP THIS WHOLE AREA FOR STACKING, WHICH GIVES US ANOTHER 14 VEHICLES, BUT THE WAY THAT WE NOW HAVE THESE SPACES
[01:10:01]
ANGLED, WE CAN PICK UP ANOTHER SIX SPACES HERE.SO WE GO FROM 33 TO 47 ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, AND THEN WE CAN GET ANOTHER SIX IN HERE.
AND THEN IF WE HAD TO, WE COULD STACK OVER IN THIS AREA.
AGAIN, THAT'S WHERE THE, THE CHANGE TO THE DRIVEWAY ON A TEMPORARY BASIS COULD BE IMPLEMENTED.
SO WE'RE GETTING UP NEAR 60 CARS STACKING HERE, YOU KNOW, ON A DAILY BASIS IF WE HAD TO IMPLEMENT THAT TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT, WE HAVEN'T OUT OUTSIDE OF THE GRAND OPENINGS, I DON'T THINK WE'VE SEEN NUMBERS CLOSE TO THAT IN THE FOUR THAT WE'VE LOOKED AT YET, I THINK.
I THINK WE SAW A COUPLE OVER 40 THAT WAS LIKE 42 MAYBE AROUND, YEAH, THERE WERE 37 AND I THINK IT WAS ONE DAY THAT WAS A 40.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE, AND, AND NOT TO QUESTION WHAT YOU SAW MM-HMM.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, DURING COVID I SAW LOCATIONS, BUT THAT WAS IN COVID AND, AND I HAD SEEN CLOSE TO 40 VEHICLES STACKED AT, AT THESE FACILITIES.
BUT AGAIN, THAT WAS DURING COVID.
NOW WE ARE NOT SEEING THOSE AT THE NORWALK FACILITY, WHICH IS ONE I GO BY ALL THE TIME.
ARE YOU REDESIGNING THAT? YES.
WAS THAT A TWO FOR ONE AT ONE POINT? IS THAT WHAT IT CORRECT, THAT WAS THE PROBLEM ENTRANCE.
SO IT WAS TWO ENTRANCE, TWO AISLES GOING INTO 1 1 1 DRIVE WINDOW.
AND THE ENTRANCE TO THAT DRIVE THROUGH WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE ENTRANCE TO THE HIGHWAY.
SO THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT BUFFERS ZONE THAT WE HAVE WHERE SOMEBODY CAN DECIDE IF THEY WANT TO PARK OR GO TO THE DRIVE.
THEY HAD TO MAKE THAT DECISION IMMEDIATELY.
IN FACT, WHAT YOU COULD DO AS PART OF YOUR PLAN, I GUESS IS IF YOU'RE HAVING ONE OF THOSE DAYS WHERE YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT 47 PEOPLE IN, IN THERE, YOU SEND THEM TO YOUR QUOTE, YOUR EMPLOYEE LOT FOR PICKUP.
AND DO YOU AND HAVE A RUNNER, RUNNER COME OUT WITH THEIR STUFF IN THERE TO TRY TO CUT DOWN ON THE, CUT THAT DOWN.
OUR DISCUSSIONS ON THE FLEXIBILITY THIS LAYOUT OFFERS.
BECAUSE WE DO HAVE ALL THAT EXTRA PARKING BEHIND.
WE DID, WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT AS KIND OF THE FAIL SAFE IN OUR TRAFFIC MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT WE COULD THEN DIRECT THEM INTO THE LOT HERE.
AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE WANTED TO MAINTAIN THE TWO POINTS OF ACCESS THERE.
SO FOR FLEXIBILITY, UH, COULD YOU JUST CONFIRM MM-HMM,
THAT, UH, THAT THAT SITE IN CHARLOTTE IS NOT THE SAME DESIGN AS THIS ONE.
DID YOU GET THE ADDRESS? YOU GAVE ME ADDRESS, RIGHT? YEAH, WE DID.
IT'S NOT THE SAME DESIGN BECAUSE CORRECT.
LIKE I SAID IN THAT IT HAD TWO LANES, BUT IT WENT TO ONE, IT'S TWO FOR ONE.
SO ONE, JUST CONFIRM THE DIFFERENCES.
LESLIE, WHY I SAW A HUNDRED AND WHY YOU ARE SAYING THE MAXIMUM IS 60 OR SO.
SO I JUST WANNA UNDERSTAND WHY THE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN DESIGN THAT I SEE THOSE DIFFERENCE.
I BELIEVE THAT WAS UNDER THE NOVEMBER SUBMISSION, BUT IT STATED THAT WE DID LOOK AT THAT FACILITY, THE ADDRESS AND IT WAS A TWO TO ONE AS OPPOSED TO THE CONTINUOUS TWO PROCESSES.
LESLIE? LESLIE, YOU'VE BEEN PATIENT.
SO JUST A GENERAL QUESTION THAT HAD TO DO WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THE COUNTY CENTER EVENTS, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE, SO THE COUNTY CENTER EVENTS OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAPPEN EVERY DAY, BUT WE DO KNOW WHAT JUNE, MAY AND JUNE TEND TO LOOK LIKE.
THE GRADUATIONS ARE THERE ALL THE TIME.
SO HOW DO, HOW DO WE WORK THAT? AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS HAVING AS WELL AS I'M STARTING TO SEE COUNTY CENTERS ARE HAVING MORE EVENTS THAT ARE BRINGING MORE PEOPLE.
WELL, A LOT OF THEIR EVENTS ARE DURING MAY AND JUNE.
TO ME, THE BIGGEST CONFLICT IS WHEN IT'S DURING THE DAY DAY AND THEIR, THEIR PEAK IS DURING THE DAY.
I KNOW, I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE TRYING TO DO BREAKFAST NOW, BUT MAJORITY OF YOUR BUSINESSES STILL STILL LUNCH TIME, BUT ALSO ALSO SO WE DON'T, WHEN THERE'S AN EVENT AT THE COUNTY CENTER, IT'S VERY UNLIKELY THEY'RE GONNA GO TO THE PARKING LOT, GET THEIR CAR AND GO TO THE DRIVE-IN CHANCES ARE THEY'LL JUST WALK, WALK TO CHICK-FIL-A REALLY, YOU KNOW, GET IT OVER THE COUNTER.
WELL, LISTEN FROM THE MEETING FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT PARKING OVER THERE.
IT WAS REALLY, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CHICK-FIL-A CHICK-FIL-A I AGREE.
IF IT'S BAD NOW IT'LL BE WORSE.
I'M SHOULDN SAYING CHICK-FIL-A IT SHOULDN'T BE.
IF THEY'RE STAYING WITHIN THEIR PROPERTY, IT WON'T BE WORSE IF THEY OVERFLOW OUT OF THE PROPERTY, THAT'S WHEN IT GETS WORSE.
HOW, HOW WOULD THE TRAFFIC NOT WORSE? THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS THAT YOU WEREN'T, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WERE AWARE OF THAT.
SO IN TERMS OF PARKING, WE'VE AGREED TO RETRIP THIS TO MAXIMIZE THE PARKING ON COUNTY CENTER ROAD REGARDLESS OF OUR PROJECT.
[01:15:01]
IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'RE MAKING.WE'RE WIDENING ALL KENCO ROAD SO THAT THERE WILL BE THREE LANES AND WE'VE ACTUALLY EXTENDED THE WIDENING ALL THE WAY BACK TOWARDS THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE.
SO YOU'LL HAVE THREE LANES OF STACKING APPROACHING THE LIGHT TO NOT ONLY SERVE OUR TRAFFIC, BUT TRAFFIC FOR THE COUNTY CENTER EVENT.
SO WHEN THERE IS AN OVERFLOW HERE FROM THE COUNTY CENTER, THESE IMPROVEMENTS WILL ACCOMMODATE VEHICLES, WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO CHICK-FIL-A OR COUNTY CENTER.
SO OUR FEELING IS THAT WITH THIS IMPROVEMENT, WE'RE NOT GONNA MAKE IT ANY WORSE.
AND IN THE EVENING IT'S PROBABLY GONNA MAKE IT BETTER BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUR PEAK TIME IS MIDDAY.
WELL, PLUS IF YOU FIX THE LIGHT, YOU'RE GONNA FIX THE LIGHT HOPEFULLY TOO.
AND, AND, AND THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SIGNAL, WHICH AT THIS POINT YEAH.
SO, BUT, BUT THE, THE ADDED LANE BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ADDED LANE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH TIME YOU GET, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO GET EVERYONE THROUGH EFFICIENTLY HAVING THE ADDED LANE.
UH, MR. CANNING HAD RECOMMENDED THAT WE DO ADDITIONAL WIDENING OF ALONG OUR PROPERTY FRONTAGE, SO THAT IF AND WHEN NESTOS GETS REOCCUPIED AT THE TYPE OF USE THAT IT WAS, THAT TRAFFIC CAN BYPASS, THAT WE DON'T CREATE ANOTHER CONFLICT OF, OF PEOPLE STOPPING.
THE OTHER MODIFICATIONS, UH, AND AND THIS IS ANECDOTAL FROM MY OBSERVATIONS WHEN I'VE BEEN AT GRADUATIONS AND DIFFERENT EVENTS AT COUNTY CENTER, IF YOU'RE IN THIS AREA, YOU HAVE PEOPLE GOING THE WRONG WAY AROUND THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE.
AND EVEN DURING THE DAY, YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL SEE THAT.
SO THE OTHER PART OF OUR IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR, AND AGAIN, WE CAN FINE TUNE THESE WITH, WITH ADDITIONAL INPUT FROM JOHN, BUT YOU KNOW, IS TO, AND, AND WE'VE ALREADY WORKED INTO SOME OF HIS ADDITIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS TO REALLY DEFINE THAT.
THE PART, THE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S, THERE'S SO MUCH PAVEMENT THERE.
SO WE'RE RECOMMENDING THESE STRIPING IMPROVEMENTS.
SO NOW YOU'VE DEFINED THE, THE DRIVER'S EYE AS TO WHERE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE AND IT WILL HELP BRING ORDER TO WHAT GOES ON THERE TODAY.
UM, THERE'S ADDITIONAL SIGNING THAT GOES WITH THAT ALSO.
AND THAT SOMEWHAT LEADS INTO THE, THE CONCERN ABOUT, WELL, IF WE ALLOW LEFT TURNS HERE, WELL WE'RE GONNA AGREE TO MONITOR THAT.
IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH THE LEFT TURN, THEN WE'VE ALREADY ADDED SIGNING FOR A TRAFFIC COMING OUT OF THE DRIVE-THROUGH ONE OF THE PREFERRED ROUTES IS TO HEAD RIGHT BACK TO GO WEST.
AND, AND IF AND IF YOU WANT TO, IF YOU'RE GONNA GO WEST, YOU COME DOWN HERE RIGHT.
AND IT'S ALL RIGHT TURNS AND YOU'RE, YOU'RE OUT INTO THE FLOW.
AND WHEN THE SIGNAL TURNS OVER AT, UH, COUNTY, UH, CENTRAL AVENUE, YOU HAVE THAT ABILITY TO GET INTO THE, THE MOVEMENT.
AND THEN IT ALSO IS DIRECTING PEOPLE.
AN ALTERNATE IS TO COME AROUND AND GET IN THE QUEUE HERE.
THE THING WE COULD DO THAT WOULD BE IF THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH ANY LEFTERS THING, I'M LOOKING, WHAT I'M LOOKING AT, AT THIS DESIGN, WHAT YOU COULD DO IS DO SOME NICE SIGNAGE ON THAT LITTLE ISLAND.
MM-HMM,
THAT WOULD BE A GOOD PLACE TO PUT SOME SIGNAGE, LIKE LOCAL TRAFFIC ONLY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO TRY TO KEEP NICE.
RIGHT, RIGHT HERE, THERE, HERE AND HERE.
AND ALSO MAYBE THAT OTHER ONTO, UH, COUNTY CENTER ROAD ON THE OTHER SIDE THERE TOO.
THAT'D BE SIMPLE IF YOU DO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT I THINK THAT THERE'S PEOPLE FROM OUTTA THE AREA, IF THEY SEE THAT SIGN, THEY, UNLESS THEY KNOW, IF THEY KNOW IT'S A SHORTCUT, WHICH IT ACTUALLY IS.
JOE
THROUGH TRAFFIC, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WOULD REQUIRE TOWN BOARD CONSENT? 'CAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE COULD BE CONSIDERED A RESTRICTION ON, UM, ROAD ACCESS.
YEAH, WE SHOULD HAVE THE POLICE TAKE A LOOK AT THAT AS WELL.
IF THEY, I CAN'T BELIEVE I'LL SAY NO, I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'D SAY NO TO IT INSTEAD OF NO THROUGH TRAFFIC.
YOU MAY HAVE TO LIMIT IT TO LANGUAGE LIKE LOCAL TRAFFIC.
I MEAN THERE'S NO, WE USE NO THROUGH TRAFFIC.
'CAUSE THERE'S ONE AT THE END OF MY STREET.
NOBODY, NOBODY, NOBODY, NOBODY, UH, STOPS AT IT, UNFORTUNATELY AND THINKS MY STREET'S NOT A
[01:20:01]
DEAD END.IT DOES SAY NO THROUGH TRAFFIC AT THE END OF MY STREET.
BUT I, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM.
WE CAN TALK, WE CAN TALK WITH TR THE TRAFFIC, GREENBERG POLICE NOW AND IF WE HAVE REALLY TIME YEAH.
I THINK WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SEEKER NOW.
AND THEN I THINK WE CAN MOVE ON.
I THINK WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS TONIGHT.
THANK YOU GUYS, BY THE WAY, FOR UNDERSTANDING.
AND ONE THING I'VE JUST BEEN HOLDING ON ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN YEAH.
IS KEEP, KEEP IN MIND THEY'RE CLOSED 52 DAYS OF THE YEAR, ALMOST A MONTH AND A HALF.
WE DON'T KNOW THAT YET, DO WE? WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THE LEGISLATURE.
ON SUNDAYS, THEY'RE STAYING CLOSED ON SUNDAYS AND THEN THEIR HOURS ARE SIX 30 TO 10.
SO IT'S NOT A 24 HOUR OPERATION THAT SOME OTHER DRIVE-THROUGHS MIGHT BE.
THAT WOULD BE EVEN BUSIER OR MORE.
AND A LOT OF THE DRIVE-THROUGHS ARE ACTUALLY BUSIER LATE AT NIGHT.
THE ONES THAT ARE OPEN LIKE REALLY LATE LIKE BURGER KING OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT CAN STACK UP AT NIGHT.
BUT UM, AND ALSO NEWER CARS LIKE MINE, THE START STOP THAT WAS, THEY STU THEY STOP ANY, THEY STOP.
ANYWAY THAT WAS DESCRIBED IN OUR RESPONSE LETTER.
SO, YOU KNOW, UM, IT'S STILL, I, FROM AN ENVIRONMENTAL POINT OF VIEW, IT IS COUNTERINTUITIVE TO WHAT, WHAT YOU'D LIKE.
BUT SO IS DRIVING
SO I MEAN, THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.
BEFORE WE GET INTO THAT, COULD WE RECAP EXACTLY WHAT THE BOARD WOULD LIKE FROM US AS FAR AS THE NEXT COMMISSION? SURE.
DO YOU WANNA DO THAT AT THE END? LET'S DO IT AT THE END BECAUSE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SEEKER.
'CAUSE JOE, I WANT GET YOUR OPINION ON, ON THE SEEKER THING FOR A SECOND HERE.
I THINK WE CAN DO THIS WITHOUT GOING INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UM, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GOING TO THE, THE SETBACKS THEMSELVES AND, AND I'LL SPEAK FOR THE BOARD, ARE NOT THE CON THE CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE IN REGARDS TO THE SPECIAL PERMIT.
WOULD EVERYBODY IN OUR BOARD AGREE THAT WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE THE CONTROLLING ISSUE HERE? THE SETBACKS THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE VARIANCES THAT ARE REQUIRED ARE ALL SETBACK VARIANCES.
THE ISSUE HAS TO DO WITH TRAFFIC.
THERE, THERE IS ALSO A PARKING SPOT VARIANCE THAT THEY NEED.
BUT IT'S MINOR, RIGHT? UH, IT'S NOT, WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE.
LET, BUT HERE'S A, HERE'S A QUESTION.
I I I'M ALWAYS HESITANT WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION.
COULD WE, AND I'M, I'M JUST WONDERING IF THIS IS A BAD, IF IT'S A BAD IDEA, IT'S A BAD IDEA.
COULD WE MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE ZONING BOARD TO GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY WHILE WE'RE STILL DOING THIS? BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT STILL COMES DOWN TO US APPROVING THE SPECIAL PERMIT, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE, THOSE VARIANCES.
AND THE ZONING BOARD ONLY MEETS ONCE A MONTH.
SO I'M JUST WONDERING, JOE, IS IS THAT A PROBLEM? IF WE NEG DECKED IT NOW WITH THE, WITH THE, THAT ONE THING IN THERE AND SENT IT, SENT THOSE, THOSE ZONINGS TO THE ZONING BOARD WHILE WE, WE STILL DELIBERATE ON THE, ON THE ISSUES ON THE SPECIAL PERMIT.
I ACTUALLY THINK THAT'S SOMETHING I'D FEEL BETTER ANSWERING IN, IN EXECUTIVE SESSION TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
SO IS IS THE QUESTION WHETHER OR NOT THE BOARD CAN REFER TO THE ZBA WITHOUT THE NEG DECK? WELL, I COULD REFER IT TO THEM, BUT THEY, WE COULD REFER IT TO 'EM.
THEY JUST COULDN'T MAKE A DECISION.
THEY COULDN'T MAKE ANY DECISION.
BUT THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
DO THE NEC YOU SAID YOU NEED, WE NEED, YOU REALLY NEED TO DO SEEKER BEFORE WE REFER TO THE THEM.
I JUST, IT WAS A MISUNDERSTOOD.
THEY ONLY, WE MEET TWICE A MONTH.
THE QUESTION IS WHEN CAN, I MEAN, I'D RATHER DO DO IT ALL AT ONCE.
UM, HOW, HOW FAST DO YOU THINK YOU GUYS COULD GET BE BACK WITH WHAT WE DESCRIBED TONIGHT? THAT'S A TIM QUESTION.
TIM, WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE NE WHAT ARE YOU, WHERE ARE PHIL? QUESTION
YOU'RE DOING NEXT FOUR SATURDAYS
AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T, WE DON'T GET THE SNOW ON SATURDAY.
SO, BUT FOUR DIFFERENT SITES, FOUR DIFFERENT, YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN GET, YOU KNOW, THAT DATA COLLECTED PROBABLY OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT TWO WEEKENDS.
WE'RE PROBABLY TALKING SECOND FEBRUARY MEETING.
WHY, WHY WOULDN'T WE, IF WE CAN, WHY WOULDN'T WE JUST DO CCRA AND OUR ZONING RECOMMENDATION TODAY? THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING.
JOE DOES NOT RECOMMEND DOING SEEKER TONIGHT IF THERE ARE STILL TRAFFIC ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE RESOLVED, WHICH, UH, HOPEFULLY THE DATA WILL, UH, ENLIGHTEN THE BOARD ON.
SO TRAFFIC IS A MAJOR COMPONENT OF, UH, SEEKER.
I I THINK THERE'S A DISCOMFORT I YEAH, I SENSE IN DOING THAT.
THAT WAS WHAT I WAS ASKING AARON.
[01:25:01]
AARON, WELCOME.I, I JUST WANTED TO ADD, AND I AGREE WITH MATT AND JOE AND I'VE BEEN, UH, FOLLOWING VERY CLOSELY THAT ISSUANCE OF A NEGATIVE DECLARATION WOULD NEED TO INVOLVE THAT TRAFFIC INFORMATION AND FIND IT.
THERE WOULDN'T BE, SO YOU SHOULD HOLD OFF THAT IS SCOTT'S RECOMMENDATION.
BECAUSE IT IT'S A EG IT'S A, IT'S A SECRET FOR THE ENTIRE THING, NOT JUST FOR THE VARIANCES.
I I UNDERSTAND THAT RATIONAL THERE IS APPRECIATED.
THANK YOU FOR EVEN CONSIDERING.
I I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF THERE'S A WAY OF DOING IT FOR TIMELINE AND I APPRECIATE IT AND I I DO AGREE WITH YOUR COUNSEL AND YOUR PLANNING TO ESTABLISH, SO YEAH, IT MAKES, IT MAKES SENSE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THEY COULD DO THOUGH IS IF WE'RE GONNA COLLECT THE DATA AND COME BACK FOR THE SECOND FEBRUARY MEETING, YOU CAN TRY TO GET ON THEIR LATE FEBRUARY SCHEDULE NOW THAT AND ALSO, UM, THIS BOARD COULD, UM, HAVE STAFF IN THE MEANTIME PREPARE THE NEGATIVE DECLARATION DOCUMENTS SO THAT WHEN WE DO COME BACK IN FEBRUARY AND THE DATA SHOWS WHAT WE HOPE IT'S GOING TO SHOW AND THE BOARD IS SATISFIED, THE DOCUMENTATION IS THERE.
OR YOU KNOW WHAT? I COULD HAVE HIM DO A POSITIVE DECK AT THE SAME TIME.
IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO, I WOULD AMEND THAT
NO, I IT WILL NOT IF WE MAKE A DECISION ON NEG DECK.
IT WON'T, IT WILL GET DONE VERY QUICKLY AFTER THAT DECISION.
WHAT I SUGGEST YOU TRY TO DO AND, AND IT COULD BE A RISK, BUT TRY TO GET ON THE ZONING BOARD SCHEDULE FOR THE END OF FEBRUARY.
I CAN'T GUARANTEE IT 'CAUSE I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DATA YET.
HOPEFULLY WE CAN MAKE A DECISION ON THAT, THAT MEETING.
BUT EVEN IF WE MAKE A DECISION THE SECOND MEETING IN FEBRUARY, STILL BEFORE THE ZONING BOARD, THE ZONING BOARD MEETING IN FEBRUARY, I THINK THAT'S GOOD.
I, MY OFFICE HAS THE APPLICATION READY TO GO TO THE ZBA.
OKAY, WELL YOU MAY WANT TO DO THAT AND, AND SEE IF YOU CAN GET ON THE SCHEDULE.
YOU CAN TALK TO MATT ABOUT HOW BEST TO DO THAT.
AND UM, THAT WAY IT GIVES US TWO MEETINGS, RIGHT? TWO MEETINGS IF WE NEED IT TO FINISH OUR WORK TO, TO FINISH SEEKER AND A AND A RECOMMENDATION TO THE ZONING BOARD BEFORE THEY MEET AGAIN.
'CAUSE THEIR MEETING IS THE THIRD THURSDAY I THINK IN YEAH, IN THE MONTH.
IT'S NORMALLY I THINK THE DAY AFTER, THE DAY AFTER OUR, OUR THE SECOND MEETING.
SO EVEN IF WE MADE A DECISION THE NIGHT BEFORE, THEY'D HAVE IT FOR THAT MEETING.
OKAY GUYS, WE WORKED THROUGH A LOT TONIGHT.
THIS IS A TOUGH TOUGH'S, A TOUGH, TOUGH PLACE.
SO I REALLY APPRECIATE THE COOPERATION.
CAN I MENTION JUST ONE FINAL QUICK THING? YES.
JOE, GO AHEAD WITH, WITH THAT, WITH THAT TRAFFIC LIGHT, WHAT IS THE NEXT STEP WITH THE STATE AND THE CITY? LIKE DO YOU HAVE A FOLLOW UP MEETING? IS THERE ANY, SO BEFORE COORDINATION AS TO HOW TO BE ADDRESSED BEFORE PHIL TAKES OVER.
ONE OF THE THINGS, UM, I WAS GONNA BRING UP NEXT IS I THINK WE'VE GONE THROUGH THE EXERCISE OF PUTTING IN FLEXIBILITY AND SITE DESIGN WHERE WE CAN MM-HMM.
SO I DON'T, AND AND LET CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES BEING TO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA MOVE THE DRIVE THROUGH THE OTHER SIDE OR WE'RE GONNA SHIFT THE BUILDING.
UM, SO WITH THAT SAID, WE'VE BEEN WAITING TO SUBMIT TO THE CITY UNTIL WE ARE CONFIDENT, NO SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES TO THE SITE PLAN.
UH, SINCE WE'VE VETTED THINGS SO THOROUGHLY BECAUSE MY COUNCIL WOULD PROBABLY SHOOT ME TO SAY I CAN COMMIT TO THAT.
NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT, BUT UM, I CAN SAY THAT I THINK AS A BOARD WE ARE REASONABLY COMFORTABLE WITH THE SITE PLAN AS IS IT EITHER THE WORKER, IT DOESN'T.
AND, AND SO WITH THAT SAID, I, I THINK WE WILL SUBMIT TO THE CITY IN THE COMING WEEKS.
I THINK I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU DO THAT JUST IN CASE THEY HAVE SOMETHING, SOMETHING THEY COULD MUCK UP.
AND THEN WITH THAT, I'LL HAND IT OVER TO PHIL.
UM, WE'LL, UM, WE'LL BE WORKING IN CONSULTATION WITH THE DOT.
I WOULD THINK THAT THEIR ISSUE IS MORE ONE 19 THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
IT THEY COULD, I DON'T THINK THEY, THEY COULD CARE ABOUT THE PARKING LOT MUCH.
SO JUST, JUST TO BRING YOU UP TO DATE, WE RESPONDED TO THE COMMENTS WE RECEIVED FROM NEW YORK STATE DOT BACK IN NOVEMBER.
UH, WE WERE HOPING TO HAVE SOME FEEDBACK, ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK FROM THEM PRIOR TO THIS MEETING.
UH, NOTHING REALLY GOT DONE THE LAST TWO WEEKS OF THE YEAR IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, MOVING THINGS ALONG.
SO WE WILL TOUCH BASE WITH THEM AGAIN.
UH, AND MAYBE I'LL, I'LL SPEAK WITH JOHN CANNING TO SEE IF, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A JOINT CONVERSATION WITH DOD.
UH, AND THEN WHITE PLAINS IS IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF THE, THE, UH, TOM SOIC WHO WE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH EARLY ON IS GONNA WEIGH IN ON THE SIGNAL TOGETHER WITH DOT.
SO I THINK WE'RE AT THAT STAGE WHERE WE CAN NOW PUSH.
[01:30:01]
WANNA SUMMARIZE WHO WE'RE AT TO SEE, KNOW FOR SURE.AND UM, YOU KNOW, PREVIOUS TO SUBMITTING THE LAST TIME WE HAD A VERY PRODUCTIVE CONFERENCE CALL WITH THE PLANNING STAFF.
SO I THINK IT'S GOOD IF WE JUST SUMMARIZE HERE EXACTLY WHAT THIS BOARD EXPECTS ON OUR NE OUR NEXT SUBMISSION.
UM, THAT WAY THERE'S NO GRAY AREAS ON OUR END.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S VERY SIMPLE.
IT, THE FORMAT THAT YOU HAD FOR THE ORIGINAL FOUR WAS VERY, VERY GOOD.
NOW WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THAT MUCH BREATH BECAUSE WE'RE ONLY DOING ONE DAY PART.
UH, IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR DAY OF THE WEEK THAT IS MORE PEAK THAN THE OTHER? WEDNESDAY OR THURSDAY? PROBABLY LATER IN THE WEEK IS BETTER THAN PROBABLY THURSDAY WHEN EVERYONE'S ITCHING FOR THE WEEKEND.
SO THURSDAY AND SATURDAY THEN JOHN, IS THAT ALL RIGHT WITH YOU? YES.
I WOULD ASK IF WE, PHIL, DO YOU THINK THAT MAKES A DIFFERENT OF THE WEEKDAY OR COULD WE KEEP THE FLEXIBILITY THERE? 'CAUSE WE JUST HAVE TO NOTIFY THE OPERATOR THAT WE'RE GONNA BE ON SITE.
IT'S, I WOULD THINK EARLY IN THE WEEK IS NOT AS GOOD AS LATER IN THE WEEK.
THURSDAY OR FRIDAY IS THURSDAY IS THE TYPICAL DAY.
THAT WOULD BE OUR TARGET IS THURSDAY, FRIDAY? YEAH.
SO THURSDAY AND SATURDAY PEAK PERIOD, WHICH IS WHATEVER THAT IS, IT'S WHAT, 1130 TO TWO OR WHATEVER THAT IS THAT YOU GUYS USE? 1130 TO ONE 30.
ISN'T THAT YOUR PEAK PERIOD? YEAH, 1130 TO ONE 30 IS WHAT SHOWED UP AT OKAY.
THEN USE THE SAME USE THAT SAME DAY PART.
AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FOR IS, IS THE COUNT FOR, UH, THE STACKING AND IF THEY COULD GET AN OVERALL COUNT FOR, FOR THE WHOLE LOT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'D BE GREAT TOO.
WELL, IS IS LUNCHTIME YOUR HEAVIEST? IS THIS STRONGEST BY FAR PEAK? YEAH.
BASED ON THE, THE OTHER DATA
I I ACTUALLY HAVE THE DATA SOMEWHERE.
MATT, YOU'VE GOT THE DATA SOMEWHERE TOO.
IT IT IS, IT'S IT IS VERY HEAVILY ORIENTED TOWARDS LUNCH.
AND THE, THE SECOND DAY PART WOULD BE PROBABLY FIVE O'CLOCK, BUT THE, YOU WON'T STUDY SUNDAY, BUT THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO START.
SEE, WE CAN, WE DID 12, WE DID ALL 12 OF THESE ON SUNDAY.
CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION TONIGHT.
ACTUALLY, ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE PRO GIVEN HOW PE PEOPLE LOVE CHICK-FIL-A, THEY'RE PROBABLY 12 CARS STACKED UP WAITING FOR MONDAY MORNING
AND WE'LL SEND THE LIST FOR THE FACILITIES OFF THE LIST.
WE PREVIOUSLY TRIED TO JOHN AND JOHN, JOHN WILL BLESS IT.
COME BACK WITH A DATA, PRESENT US A DATA, TRY TO GET IT TO US A WEEK BEFORE, AT LEAST A WEEK BEFORE THE MEETING PLEASE.
SO WE CAN DIGEST IT BEFORE THE MEETING.
AND HOPEFULLY BASED ON THAT, WE CAN MAKE A DECISION ON TWO THINGS.
SEEKER AND ON THE, UH, RECOMMENDATION TO, TO THE ZONING BOARD, UH, IT'S DECLARED OR, UM, THE DATA WILL BE IN THE FORM OF THE DATA.
EXACT SAME FORM THEY USED THE FIRST TIME, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.
I THINK IT WAS 15 MINUTE INTERVALS OR SOMETHING THAT OKAY.
WE'LL JUST CONTINUE THAT SPREADSHEET THAT WE PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED AND ADD.
SO YOU, YOUR QUESTION TWO AND THREE HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED BY OUR, OUR WORKING SESSION.
I THINK, WELL TWO, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU ADDRESS IT.
IT LOOK, IT, IT'S NOT THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE ENVIRONMENT.
I JUST SAY THAT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S ANYTHING WORSE THAN, THAN, YOU KNOW, OTHER THINGS.
IT'S, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GETTING OUTTA YOUR CAR.
YOU'VE, ALTHOUGH I KNOW CHICK-FIL-A IS SUPPOSED TO BE HEALTH HEALTHY, HEALTHIER THAN OTHER FAST FOOD, YOU'RE STILL NOT MAKING THAT WALK.
SO, I MEAN, BUT I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANYTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT HERE.
I, I FRANKLY BELIEVE THAT TO WHAT MICHAEL SAID BEFORE, THAT AS A TOWN AND MAYBE EVEN AS A COUNTRY, WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING THESE THINGS WHERE, WHERE PEOPLE ARE STAYING IN THEIR CARS.
AND WHEN I SEE, I MEAN, NOT JUST YOU GUYS, I MEAN I WON'T NAME OTHER PEOPLE THAT THERE'S A CERTAIN FAST FOOD RESTAURANT THAT BACKS UP ON A CENTRAL AVENUE AND I, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE ARE WAITING ON LINE THAT LONG.
SO THEY DO, I THINK IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT THEY DO THAT.
THAT'S, THAT'S MY, MY PERSONAL PRE PREFERENCE.
AND IT DOES HAVE AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT.
WE NEED TO TALK TO OUR COUNCIL OF HOW WE ADDRESS THAT IN THE NA DECK AS A LOW IMPACT POTENTIAL.
WE'RE NOT GONNA SIT THERE WITH, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WITH A BREATHALYZER OR WHATEVER AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH EXTRA CARBON OR MONOXIDE WE'RE GETTING OR, YOU KNOW, DEPENDS ON THE WIND THAT DAY TOO.
[01:35:01]
AND THEN WE'RE SATISFIED WITH THE APPROACH OF THE LEFT TURN.THAT WAS YOUR NUMBER THREE? THAT WAS, YEAH, NO, YOU, I FORGOT YOU HAD MOVED IT DOWN AND YEAH.
WE, BUT WE WILL, IF AND WHEN WE APPROVE THIS, UH, WE WILL PUT A PROVI A CAVEAT IN THERE THAT WE WILL BE MONITORING THIS.
IF THERE'S AN ISSUE, WE WILL BE CLOSING THE LEFT TURN DOWN AT THE SAME TIME.
EVEN THE, EVEN EVEN IF WE HAVE THE LEFT TURN IN THERE, I WANT TO SEE HOW MUCH WE CAN DO TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS.
I THINK THAT'LL MAKE THE NEIGHBORS A LOT HAPPIER ANYWAY.
AND IT ACTUALLY HELPS 'EM FROM TWO SPEC, NOT JUST YOU.
IT KEEPS THE COUNTY CENTER PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD TOO.
SO IT WOULD HELP BOTH, YOU KNOW, AND, AND I'LL JUST SAY AS FAR AS THE, UH, THE, THE DRIVE-THROUGHS AND THE EMISSION THINGS GO, IF YOU GO BACK THROUGH OUR SUBMISSIONS, WE DO HIGHLIGHT WAYS WHERE, UM, THE PROJECT HERE IS INCREASING PEDESTRIAN ACCESS TO THIS SITE.
IT'S MORE OF A PEDESTRIAN USE.
IT'S BY THE WESTCHESTER COUNTY BUILDING WHERE PEOPLE CAN WALK, NEIGHBORHOODS CAN WALK.
UH, THERE'S A BUS STOP RIGHT THERE.
SO THE, THE, THE MORE THESE PROJECTS ARE DEVELOPED IN AREAS THAT CAN FACILITATE A WALKABLE COMMUNITY AND WALKABLE ACCESS OVER TIME, THAT DOES REDUCE VEHICLE DEPENDENCY.
AND YOU DESIGN AND YOU DESIGN THE SITE PLAN IN A WAY THAT IT IS WALKABLE INTO THERE, WHICH LOTS OF DRIVE-THROUGHS, I'VE SEEN YOU HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THE DRIVE THROUGH TO GET INTO THE FACILITY.
AND I, I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS BIZARRE.
YOU CAN TELL AMANDA WHEREVER SHE IS TO COME BACK.
UM, I THINK OUR GENTLEMAN IS WAITING BACK THERE.
UH, WE HAVE, UH, MS. JAHIRA, UM, OH, SHE SHE'S ON THERE.
THIS IS A PRE-SUBMISSION CONFERENCE FOR A TWO, TWO LOT SUBDIVISION I BELIEVE.
CAN THE APPLICANT JUST BRIEFLY 'CAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY GETTING FAIRLY LATE AND WE STILL HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TONIGHT.
UM, BRIEF BRIEFLY, UH, GO OVER THE PROJECT FOR US PLEASE AND WE CAN GO OVER WHATEVER ISSUES THERE ARE, UH, JAHI.
ARE YOU, UH, YOU ON ZOOM? YES.
UH, DO YOU WANT TO SHARE THE, UH, PRESENT THE PLANS OR DO YOU, WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO? UM, I, I HAVE IT ON MY, MY SHARE SCREEN.
LET ME SEE IF I CAN DO THAT NOW.
SO, UM, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING TO DO HERE IS TO HAVE, UM, ADDRESS NUMBER 11 LETTERS STOCKING LANE SUBDIVIDED INTO, UM, TWO PROPOSED LOTS.
UH, HERE IS, UH, THE CURRENT DIMENSIONS OF THE LOT.
IT'S 175, UH, 0.44, UH, FEET WIDE BY 155.
UH, THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED WITHIN OUR R 10 DISTRICT AND UM, THERE IS AN EXISTING ONE FAMILY DWELLING, WHICH WE ARE PROPOSING TO REMAIN UNTOUCHED.
AND THE OWNER IS LOOKING TO THEN SUBDIVIDE A LOT INTO AND BUILDING AN ADDITIONAL, UM, ONE FAMILY DWELLING.
UM, AS WE KNOW, OUR 10 DISTRICTS REQUIRE, UH, 100 FEET, UM, UP FRONT.
SO, UH, WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING HERE IS, UH, TO SUBDIVIDE AT 100 FROM THE UH, NORTHERLY POINT, UH, MAKING THE NEW LOT COMPLIANT WITH THAT PROVISION.
UH, THE EXISTING HOUSE IS QUITE MODEST IN SIZE IS, UM, LESS THAN 1000 SQUARE FEET ONE STORY.
UM, SO WE WOULD LEAVE THAT WITH THE FRONT OF, UH, AROUND 75 UH FEET.
UH, WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WITHIN THIS ZONING DISTRICT AREA, UM, LET ME GO TO MY BIGGER MAP HERE.
IT'S UM, WE HAVE UH, DONE AN ANALYSIS OF ALL THE LOGS WITHIN THIS R 10 DISTRICT ONLY RES YOU KNOW, THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS.
AND UH, THERE ARE ABOUT 137 LOTS WITHIN THIS BOUNDARY.
UH, LOTS USED, OF COURSE NOT THIS ONE BUT LOTS USED AS ONE, AS ONE FAMILY RESIDENCES
[01:40:01]
AND ONLY NINE OF THE 137 LOTS COMPLY WITH THE REQUIRED MINIMUM OF UM, 100 FEET OF LOT WIDTH.AND TWO OF THESE LOTS ARE THE ONE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO SUBDIVIDE.
AND THE OTHER, THE OTHER SIX ARE RIGHT HERE ON ALTER TOWN ROAD.
SO THERE IS NO DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN THE ONE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO SUBDIVIDE WITH THE OTHERS THAT ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE, WITH THE, WITH THE OTHERS THAT ARE COMPLIANT WITH THE MINIMUM, UM, WIDTH REQUIREMENT.
AND, UM, MAKING THEN A UM, A CLOSE UP ON LEATHER STOCKING LANE.
THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 23 LOTS, UH, BETWEEN THE WEST, UM, THE WEST AND THE EAST SIDE OF LEATHER STOCKING LANE.
AND ONLY TWO LOTS, WHICH ONE OF THEM IS THE ONE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO SUBDIVIDE COMPLY WITH THE MINIMUM 100 FEET WIDE REQUIREMENT AND 93% OF THESE LOTS ALONG THESE TWO LINES OF LEATHER TALKING LANE DO NOT COMPLY.
THERE ARE ABOUT UM, 13, WHICH IS ABOUT 56% OF THE LOTS THAT EXIST HERE THAT HAVE LESS THAN THE REQUIREMENT OF THE 100 FEET.
SO BY THIS MEAN WE WANT TO EXPRESS THAT EVEN THOUGH WE ARE SELF-CREATING, UM, ON AN NONCOMPLIANT CONDITION, UH, THE CONDITION THAT WE ARE PROPOSING DOES NOT IMPEDE, UH, OR COMPETE OR BREAKS WITH THE SURROUND SURROUNDING CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND UM, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE ARTS AND ZONE DISTRICT, UH, THESE LOTS ARE QUITE, YOU KNOW, WIDE COMPARED TO OTHERS.
'CAUSE WE SEE IN OTHER AREAS LIKE AROUND THE OTHER STREETS WITHIN THE ART AND SOME DISTRICTS WE SEE LOTS AS NARROW AS 50 SOMETHING SQUARE FEET.
AND OUR LAST SHEET, UM, THIS IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING FOR THE UM, NEW SUBDIVIDED LOT AT 100.
UM, WE BELIEVE THAT CREATING A COMPLIANT LOT, IT'S BETTER THAN SUBDIVIDING THIS WIDTH INTO TWO.
SO WE DO NOT CREATE TWO NON-COMPLIANT CONDITIONS AS THE EXISTING ONE STORY FRAME DWELLING.
IT'S, UM, SMALL IN SIZE RELATIVELY, UM, TO THE SIZE OF THE LOT.
AND, AND, AND, AND THAT WAY WE MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T DO TWO 80, UM, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 80 SOMETHING, UH, FEET WIDE LOTS.
AND THEN YOU BUILD UP TO YOUR MAXIMUM FAR AND THEN YOU HAVE DENSITY AND UH, YOU KNOW, SITE ISSUES MORE, UM, COMPROMISED.
SO THIS IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE'RE STANDING.
WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPINION AND OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
AND UM, LASTLY I WANNA SAY THAT BACK IN UM, 1989 THERE WAS A PROPOSITION BECAUSE THIS LOT WAS QUITE, UH, BIGGER BELONGING TO THE SAME, UM, FAMILY.
SO, UM, BACK IN 1989 THIS WAS A SINGLE LOT WHICH WAS UH, QUITE BIT AND THERE WAS AN APPLICATION WHO WAS DENIED BECAUSE THEY WERE PROPOSING FIVE SUB DIVIDE OR LIKE KEEP THE TWO TO THE TWO HOUSES THAT WE SEE HERE AND DIVIDE THESE COMPLETE PARCELS INTO FIVE LOTS.
AND READING THROUGH THE COMMENTS, I SEE THAT IT WAS DENIED BECAUSE THEY KEPT WITH, UM, WITH THE PROPOSAL OF SUBDIVIDED AND INTO FIVE BLOCKS, MAKING THEM AROUND 60 SOMETHING FEET WIDE.
UH, INSTEAD OF, UH, PROPOSING SOMETHING SIMILAR WHAT THE BOARD HAD SUGGESTED, WHICH WAS SUBDIVIDED INTO FOUR.
SO WHAT UM, MY CLIENT IS PROPOSING TODAY IS SIMILAR TO WHAT THE BOARD RECOMMENDED BACK THEN, WHICH IS TO HAVE IT, UM, YOU KNOW, AS IF WE'RE DIVIDED INTO FOUR, BUT IN THIS CASE WOULD BE ONLY TWO.
IT'S, IT'S TWO LOT SUBDIVISION, RIGHT? IT'S NOT A FOUR.
WHERE DOES A FOUR COME FROM? SO THERE'S A LOT WAS THAT APPLICATION, THERE'S A LARGE RACK IN, THERE'S TWO LARGE LOTS ON LEATHER STOCKING LANE.
THIS LOT AND THEN A LOT DIRECTLY TO THE NORTH.
THAT'S, THAT LOT IS NOT PART OF THIS APPLICATION.
ONE OTHER QUESTION, BUT BEYOND THE FRONTAGE VARIANCE, ARE THERE ANY OTHER VARIANCES THAT WOULD BE NEEDED FOR THE EXISTING HOUSE? UM, FOR CREATING A NON-CONFORMING YEAH, THAT, THAT, I KNOW THAT'S IT.
SO THOSE TWO EXPERIENCES, IS THAT YES, THAT'S IT.
DID I IT WHY IS IT NON-CONFORMING? 'CAUSE IT'LL BE 20 FRONTAGE.
THE FRONTAGE HAS TO BE 100 FEET, IT HAS TO BE A HUNDRED IN THE FRONT.
[01:45:03]
ALRIGHT.BECAUSE IF I GET THIS RIGHT, SO IT'S ABOUT 27,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO, AND IT'S, AND THEY CAN HAVE 10.
NOW I, I UNDERSTAND THE RATIONALE FOR HAVING A HUNDRED FEET FRONTAGE ON ONE LOT.
NON-CONFORMING LOT, BUT THAT'S CORRECT.
BUT LOOKING AT THAT MAP OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, I MEAN ALL THE LOTS WERE DIVIDED, YOU KNOW, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE.
UM, DOES IT MAKE ANY SENSE TO JUST DIVIDE IT RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE? BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH YOU'LL END UP WITH TWO NON-CONFORMING LOTS, THAT SEEMS TO BE PERFECTLY CONSISTENT WITH THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD.
I MEAN THAT'S THE ARGUMENT TO MAKE FOR THE Z THEN, AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT LINE THAT'S CROOKED.
WE DON'T LIKE CROOKED LOT LINES.
WHAT THAT'S THE ARGUMENT TO MAKE FOR THE ZBA.
SO INSTEAD OF TWO VARIANCES, YOU WOULD NEED AT LEAST THREE FROM THE ZONING BOARD, YOU NEED THREE.
THE PROBLEM, THE CREATING AND NONCONFORMITY, THE ADVANTAGE, THE ADVANTAGE OF THIS, AND I CAN UNDERSTAND THE RATIONAL, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE, YOU GUYS ARE SAYING IS THE HOUSE IS SO SMALL ON THE OTHER LOT, THE NOT CREATING ANY OTHER VARIANCES BY MAKING THAT LOT SMALLER, IT GIVES YOU MORE FLEXIBILITY TO BUILD A LARGER HOUSE ON ON THE OTHER SIDE.
WELL MY QUESTION IS THIS, IS THAT, UH, UM, WHAT IS, UH, THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE MAJORITY OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS, IS ILLEGALLY NOT CONFORMING, IT'S NOT, DOESN'T MEET THE MINIMUM OF 100 SQUARE FEET.
COULD YOU GIVE ME SOME DATA ON THAT? WHAT IS THE AVERAGE WIDTH OF THE LOTS IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND WHAT IS THE SMALLEST WIDTH? AND I'LL GIVE US SOME PERSPECTIVE OF HOW THIS PARTICULAR LOT FITS INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
DO YOU HAVE THAT DATA? UM, YES.
WE PRETTY MUCH, UM, UH, CRE UH, CREATED THIS CALCULATION.
UM, NOT FOR THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT ALONG LEATHER STOCKING LANE.
THE, THE LOT, THE, THE AVERAGE LOT WITH IS AROUND 74 FEET.
AND SO WE WILL BE, YEAH, WE WILL BE SLIGHTLY OVER THAT.
UM, BECAUSE WE'RE PROPOSING 75 AND, UM, OBJECTION NOT PROPOSING 74 ALSO 75.
AM I LOOKING AT THE WRONG, THE, OKAY.
YEAH, NO, THAT'S SOMETHING I ALSO WANTED TO DISCUSS BECAUSE, UM, BASED ON THIS OLDER SURVEY, THERE'S A LITTLE DISCREPANCY IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FULL LOT PARCEL WAS WHEN IT WAS A HUGE LOT AND BEFORE IT WAS SUBDIVIDED INTO TWO VERSUS WHAT THE UM, GIS HAS ON THEIR RECORDS.
BECAUSE BASED ON GIS THIS LOT IS 175.44.
BUT THIS IS SOMETHING I CAN DISCUSS FURTHER WITH.
UM, YOU NEED TO STATE THAT, YOU NEED TO STATE THAT OUT WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
THAT THAT'D BE STRAIGHTENED OUT WITH, UM, A SURVEY.
BECAUSE THERE'S A DISCREPANCY OF WHAT THE GIS SHOW VERSUS WHAT THE SURVEY SHOWS, SO, OKAY.
UH, BUT IT, THE, THE, THE AVERAGE OF THIS UM, UM, AREA HERE ON NOT IN STOCKING LANE IS 75 FEET.
SO WE WOULD BY NO MEANS CREATE A NON, UH, SOMETHING THAT BREAKS IT'S NON-CONFORMING, BUT UM, BUT IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AGAIN, 6% OF THE, OF THE LOTS ARE NON-CONFORMING.
LIKE, UM, THIS IS A HUGE MAP, BUT IF WE GO, LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE HERE, UM, ACROSS THE STREET, UH, THERE ARE LOTS, THERE ARE 61 70 FEET.
UH, WHAT I COULD DO IS CREATE LIKE A TABLE AND TELLS YOU WITHIN THIS R 10 DISTRICT, BECAUSE UM, THE CALCULATIONS WE DID WAS FOR THE OVERALL, UH, TO KNOW THAT 93% OF THE LOTS WITHIN THIS, UH, DISTRICT AREA ARE NONCOMPLIANT.
AND THEN I DID LIKE A BREAKDOWN HERE, BUT I COULD GLADLY DO, UM, UH, SUMMARIZE EVERY SINGLE LOT WITHIN THIS R 10 DISTRICT AND, AND PRORATE AND TELL YOU MY AVERAGE WIDTH IS 70 FEET IS 75 OR 80 FEET IF YOU WANT US TO DO THAT JUST ON HOW BLOCK WOULD I I I THINK IF YOU JUST DO IT ON YOUR BLOCK AND IT, IT'D BE AS MUCH FOR THE ZONING BOARD AS IT IS FOR US ANYWAY.
THEY, THEY AVERAGE ON, ON MY, ON OUR BLOCK IT'S 75 FEET.
I DON'T, I'M I'M CURIOUS, OBVIOUSLY MOST OF THEIR PROPERTIES ARE NON-COMPLIANCE.
[01:50:01]
MM-HMM.SO IT LOOKS LIKE SOME OF 'EM WERE BUILT MOSTLY IN THE FIFTIES.
SO THAT JUST MEANS THEY PREDATE THE REQUIREMENTS.
SO I MEAN AS LONG AS IT'S, IT'S WITHIN THE, THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, WHICH THIS IS, I DON'T SEE THIS BEING AN ISSUE.
AND SO I WOULD, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, YOU SHOULD GET THE DATA THAT YOU, WE TALKED ABOUT, GET THE PLANS DONE, TRY, TRY TO GIVE US A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THE NEW HOUSE IS.
IF YOU COULD GIVE US A LITTLE IDEA OF WHAT THE NEW HOUSE IS GONNA LOOK LIKE RELATIVE TO THE OTHER HOUSES.
BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS, IF THE LOT'S BIGGER, YOU DON'T WANT THE HOUSE TO OVERWHELM EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE STREET.
THAT'S WHY I THINK JUST CREATING, LEAVING THE EXISTING HOUSE AS IT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, AVOIDS THE SITUATION.
SOMEBODY ELSE BUYING THE, THE, THE SMALLER LOT WITH THE HOUSE THAT'S IN AND DEVELOPING THE LOT TO ITS FULLY POTENTIAL THEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A A A A, A BIGGER HOUSE AND A SMALLER LOT, UM, AND THAT WOULD BE A CONDITION CREATED ASSET.
WELL WHAT I'M SAYING IS ON, ON THE 75, WHAT I'M SAYING, ON THE LARGER LOT THOUGH, YOU DON'T WANT THE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE SPACE.
YOU STILL DON'T WANT TO BE OUT OF CHARACTER WITH THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN YOU BUILDING HOUSE.
WE CAN PREPARE SOME SCHEMATIC DRAWINGS AND AND THAT WOULD BE GOOD AND SHOW YES.
LIKE WE LOOK, ONE OF THE THINGS WE LOOK AT AND, AND SO THIS, THE ZONING BOARD IS LIKE WE, IF YOU, EVEN IF IT'S, I KNOW IT'S NOT GONNA BE THE FINAL DRAWING OF THE HOUSE, BUT IF YOU HAVE AN IDEA OF THE HEIGHT, ROUGHLY WHAT THE HEIGHT OF THE HOUSE IS GONNA BE, A TWO STORY HOUSE, HOW DOES THAT COMPARE WITH WHAT'S SURROUND SURROUNDING IT AND THINGS LIKE THAT TO MAKE SURE THERE'S A FIT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD? 'CAUSE THIS IS THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT AND, AND THE ZONING BOARD LOOKS AT.
ALRIGHT, WELL ANYTHING ELSE GUYS? SO, NO, THAT'S IT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WAITING TONIGHT.
OKAY, LAST BUT NOT LEAST SHIRLEY.
UM, AND WE'RE PROBABLY GONNA SPEND THE REST OF IT TIL 10 O'CLOCK ON THIS 'CAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF TO GO THROUGH.
UM, IS CASE TB 2309, WHICH IS ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT LOCAL LAW.
UM, MICHAEL'S ESCAPED TILL HE'S BACK IN A SECOND.
I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO IN THE MEANTIME THOUGH, YOU TAKE A BREAK.
WE CAN TAKE A COUPLE MINUTE BREAK.
JUST A COUPLE MINUTES 'CAUSE WE GOT A LOT TO DO WITH YES.
YOU'RE GONNA GET A HALL PASS IN PROGRESS.
UH, CASE, UH, TB 2309, WHICH IS, UH, A REFERRAL FROM THE TOWN BOARD FOR A LAW OF AUTHORIZING ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS IN THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
UM, THE FIRST THING WE NEED TO DO IS THE TOWN BOARD, UH, WOULD LIKE TO DECLARE ITSELF, UH, LEAD AGENCY.
AND COULD I HAVE A MOTION THAT WE AGREE WITH THAT? SO THEY CIRCULATED THEIR NOTICE OF INTENT? YOU HAVE IT RIGHT HERE.
CAN I HAVE A SECOND? MICHAEL AND WALTER? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE.
UM, EXCUSE ME, THE OTHER VOTES ABSTAIN.
YEAH, NO, FOR ME, I THINK WE SHOULD BE LEAD AGENCY ON THIS.
AND DID YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW.
AND YOU WOULD KNOW, I'M SORRY.
NO ABSTENTIONS IS ANY, UM, SO FOUR IN FAVOR AND YOU OPPOSED? FOUR, TWO.
IS THERE ANY, COULD, COULD JUST, YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT YOU'LL UNDERSTAND WHY AS WE GO ALONG TONIGHT I THINK.
JUST, YO, WHY I'M CURIOUS, THERE'S, THERE'S FOUR MEMBERS OF THE BOARD THAT DID A LOT OF WORK ON THIS OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR.
AND I WOULD CONSIDER US THE EXPERTS WHEN IT COMES TO THIS TOPIC OVERALL.
UM, WE, WE'VE HAD EVIDENCE JUST WITH RECENT CONVERSATIONS WITH THE TOM BOARD AND THE WAY THEY'VE DESCRIBED THE LAW, THERE WERE SOME NUANCES THAT WERE MISSED.
I WOULDN'T EVEN CALL IT NUANCES THAT WERE MISSED.
THE VERSION THAT WE GOT FROM THEM WAS ALREADY ALTERED AND IT
[01:55:01]
GUTS THE VERY HEART OF WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.SO I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD, UH, BE LEAD AGENCY.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE LEAD AGENCY.
WE HAVE THE EXPERTISE HERE, AND ULTIMATELY WHATEVER WE RECOMMEND IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO CONSIDER ANYWAY.
SO WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE THE LEAD? THE ONLY REASON WHY I WOULD SAY THAT, 'CAUSE RULE OF THUMB WITH LEAD AGENCY, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT HOW THE THING GETS ADOPTED, NUMBER ONE.
BUT NUMBER TWO, LEAD AGENCY IS GENERALLY THE ONE THAT HAS THE FINAL, THE FINAL SAY ON, ON SOMETHING GENERALLY AND HAS THE MOST INVOLVEMENT.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE AN ADMINISTRATIVE BODY, ALTHOUGH WE GET TO RECOMMEND THEY'RE A LEGISLATIVE BODY.
WHETHER I AGREE WITH 'EM OR NOT, THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.
BUT IN TERMS OF THAT, WE ARE THE ADMINISTRATIVE PARTY.
WELL, LET'S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT.
WHAT, WHAT DOES LEAD AGENCY MEAN? IT MEANS IT, OBVIOUSLY THIS, THIS COULD ONLY BE ADOPTED BY THE TOWN BECAUSE IT'S A CODE PROVISION, RIGHT? I THOUGHT LEAD AGENCY MEANT FOR SEEKER FOR SE PURPOSES.
IT'S, AND GENERALLY WHAT HAPPENS IN SEEKER IS THE AGENCY THAT HAS THE MOST INVOLVEMENT IN A PROJECT IS THE LEAD AGENCY.
THAT'S GENERALLY WHAT HAPPENS.
I VOTED FOR IT, BUT I'M INTERESTED.
WE'RE GONNA GET INTO THAT KNOWING WE'RE GONNA GET INTO ALL OF THAT.
BUT LET US PEEL BACK THE ONION BECAUSE WE GOT A LOT LONG WAY TO GO.
WE MAY NOT GET THROUGH IT TONIGHT ACTUALLY, BECAUSE WE'LL EXPLAIN THAT.
UM, GARY, DO YOU WANNA GO THROUGH THE BACKGROUND? JUST, THERE ARE FOUR OF US HERE.
THERE'S, THERE ARE THREE OF YOU WITH A DISADVANTAGE, RIGHT? WHY DON'T WE, WHY DON'T YOU TELL US WHO THE COMMITTEE IS BESIDES JOHAN AND LESLIE? NOT ME.
AND, AND JOHANN AND I ARE CO-CHAIRS AND KEN JONES.
THAT'S FROM, THAT'S FROM THE PLANNING BOARD AND INE.
AND WE HAVE VIOLA TERRY TERRA FLOW.
RIGHT? THESE ARE ALL ON THE COMMITTEE.
I'M NOT WRITING ALL THIS DOWN.
WE RECOMMENDED THAT COMMITTEE.
WE WERE THE ONE THAT CREATED, I THOUGHT YOU MEANT FOR THE PLANNING BOARD, WHICH MEMBERS ARE PART OF THE COMMITTEE.
BUT ALL TOLD IS FROM A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, YOU FREE.
WE WERE THE ONE THAT PROPOSED THIS, WALTER THIS, BUT IT'S NINE OR 10 PEOPLE ON THE COMMITTEE.
HOW DO THE PEOPLE GET ON THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED BY THE TOWN VOLUNTEER.
THEY VOLUNTEER AND THEN, AND THEN APPOINTED, OFFICIALLY APPOINTED BY TOWN BECAUSE NEED.
BUT MAY I ALSO MAKE A SUGGESTION? THERE IS THE CODE AS IT'S WRITTEN, AND WE ALL HAVE TO GO OVER AND WE HAVE TO REVIEW.
AND THEN THERE'S THE OTHER PROCESSES.
THE SEEKER WHO'S THE LEAD AGENCY AND ALL OF THAT.
SO CAN WE SPLIT THAT INTO TWO PIECES? MEANING WE, WE GO THROUGH THE CODE.
MY HONEST OPINION IS WE WE'RE OVERCOMPLICATING THE THING ON THE, ON THE LEAD AGENCY.
I THINK THERE ARE SOME VERY WEIGHTY ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO GO THROUGH HERE THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE LAW ITSELF.
THAT'S WHAT I WANNA FOCUS ON TONIGHT.
AND I WOULD GO ON AND LET'S MAKE, HAVE THE FRUITFUL DISCUSSION WE NEED TO HAVE ABOUT THE, THE DERIVATION OF THE LAW.
WHAT DIFFERENCES THERE ARE BETWEEN THIS LAW AND THE ONE THAT THE A VL PROPOSED TO, TO THE TOWN BOARD.
AND THEN, UH, THEY CAME AN EXPLANATION OF WHY.
AND ACTUALLY I WANT TO BASE A LOT OF THE DISCUSSION ON MICHAEL.
AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS JUST BECAUSE I LIKE YOU.
WHY ARE YOU SUCKING UP TO ME TODAY?
'CAUSE YOU WERE THE ONE PERSON ON THE BOARD WHO SPENT A HELL OF A LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THIS AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THINGS AND WROTE A VERY COMPREHENSIVE QUESTIONS BEFOREHAND.
AND THEY WERE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
THAT'S WHY I'M SUCKING UP TO YOU.
SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, LESLIE, SO IT IS, IS TWO PARTS.
SO DESIGNATION OF LEAD AGENCY, THEY'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S TOWN BOARD, THEY'RE GONNA EVALUATE THE SEEKER IMPACTS OF THE LOCAL LAW.
BUT I MEAN, THE CONTENT AND DISCUSSION, THAT'S ALSO ANOTHER COMPONENT, RIGHT? AND THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD FOCUS ON.
I HAVE QUESTIONS ALSO, BUT I JUST DIDN'T HAND THEM IN.
GIVE, GIVE THE 30,000 FOOT THING OF HOW THIS STARTED AND BACKGROUND.
UM, WAIT, IS IS IT, DOES THAT VOTE CARRY? YES.
YOU DON'T WANT TO CHANGE YOUR VOTE.
I I WANNA CHANGE MINE BASED ON THE DEFINITION THAT YOU JUST SAID IS THE LEADING, UM, LEAD AGENCY AGENCY.
SO I, I MEAN, IF WE WANT TO GET INTO SEEKER, I, I HAVE A FEW THINGS TO SAY ABOUT SEEKER, PLEASE.
[02:00:01]
DO AGREE.THE MOST, THE MOST OVERARCHING APPROVAL WHEN THERE'S AN ACTION, THE BOARD THAT HAS THAT MOST OVERARCHING APPROVAL IS TYPICALLY THE BOARD THAT ESTABLISHES ITSELF AS LEAD AGENCY.
THAT MAKES THE FINDING OF WHETHER OR NOT THAT ACTION IS GONNA HAVE A SIGNIFICANT NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT OR NOT.
HEY, DEREK, YOU WANNA NEED YOUR MIC? YES.
UM, WHEREAS THE TOWN BOARD IS THE, THE LEGISLATIVE BODY OF THE TOWN, IT IS THE ONLY BOARD AMONGST ALL BOARDS AND COMMITTEES IN THE TOWN THAT CAN CHANGE THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
UM, TO ME, THAT'S THE SUPREME DECISION MAKER, RIGHT? IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS, UM, THE TE THE PLANNING BOARDS HA WILL BE HEAVILY INVOLVED.
AND FOR OUR NEW MEMBER, THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLANNING BOARD AS PART OF THIS PROCESS IS TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THIS LAW.
WHETHER THAT'S POSITIVE, NEGATIVE, OR NEUTRAL.
WELL, IT'S, IT'S POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE.
AND WITH, WITH WHATEVER SUGGESTION CHANGES, WITH WHATEVER SUGGESTIONS YOU THINK FOR CHANGES.
AND THEN ISSUING A REPORT THAT WITHIN THAT REPORT IT ASKS VERY MUCH SEEKER LIKE QUESTIONS.
UM, ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, LIKE QUESTIONS.
SO, UM, YOUR REPORT WILL GIVE YOUR OPINION ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROJECT'S COMPATIBLE WITH THE ENVIRONMENT AND IN THE CONTEXT OF, UH, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND WHATNOT.
RIGHT? SO I DON'T WANT THE BOARD TO THINK THAT IF IT IS NOT THE LEAD AGENCY, THAT WON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT ROLE BECAUSE THE BOARD HAS A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN EVERY LEGISLATIVE ACTION WHERE THERE'S A REFERRAL.
UM, AND I, I DO FEEL HONESTLY, I, YOU KNOW, I IT WOULD BE ATYPICAL FOR A PLANNING BOARD, UM, TO BE LEAD AGENCY FOR A LOCAL LAW.
I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER SEEN THAT IN MY, UM, 16 YEARS WITH THE TOWN.
'CAUSE WE'RE ASKING FOR NOT ILLEGAL.
WE, WE'VE ASKED, WE'VE BEEN ASKED TO COMMENT ON NUMEROUS, WE ALWAYS ARE BY CODE PROVISIONS OVER THE YEARS.
WE ARE BY LAW WE HAVE, WELL, YES.
I MEAN, THEY REFER TO US FOR COMMENTS.
AND WE'VE NEVER BEEN LEAD AGENCY ON NEVER, RIGHT? NEVER.
SO BECAUSE WE, WE WE'RE PROPOSING A CO CHAIN, ONLY THE TOWN CAN DO THAT.
IT'S LIKE THE DIFFERENCE IS CHICK-FIL-A I'M AGREE.
WE'RE THE LEAD AGENCY AT CHICK-FIL-A 'CAUSE WE'RE THE ONES WITH THE ULTIMATE RESPONSIBILITY ON REPROVING YOUR CLIENT.
THERE'S NO LAWS IS BEING CHANGED.
SO JUST BEFORE WE GET INTO IT, SO THAT I'M NOT ASKING QUESTIONS THAT, UM, HAVE NO RELEVANCE OR HAVE NO BUSINESS ASKING WHEN WE'RE LOOKING THROUGH THIS, THIS IS A DONE DEAL, BASICALLY JUST NO, NO, NO.
WHAT'S BEEN ESTABLISHED IS THAT THE TOWN BOARD HAS, UM, PUT THIS LOCAL LAW INTO CIRCULATION.
UH, THE PLANNING BOARD'S GONNA WEIGH IN THE PLANNING BOARD'S GONNA HOLD A PUBLIC DISCUSSION.
YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM RESIDENTS OF THE TOWN AND THAT'S GONNA INFLUENCE YOUR DECISION.
AND IT MAY SPARK QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF.
UM, AND WHICH COULD LEAD TO CHANGES THAT YOU RECOMMEND FOR THIS LAW.
UM, AND OUR RECOMMENDATION, NOTHING'S A DONE DEAL UNTIL ALL THE PROCESSES THAT YOU AND BEYOND THAT, OUR RECOMMENDATION HOLDS WEIGHT.
OUR RECOMMENDATION HOLDS WEIGHT FOR THEM TO OVERTURN OUR RECOMMENDATION.
THEY NEED A SUPER MAJORITY OF THE TOWN BOARD.
IF WE VOTE UNANIMOUSLY, IT'S NOT, IT'S A NEGATIVE RECOMMENDATION.
IT'S NOT ILLEGAL, WHICH MEANS LEGALLY WE COULD STILL BE LEAD AGENCY COULD DO, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE GONNA CREATE, BUT I THINK IT'LL CREATE LEGALLY YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO, UM, POWER WANT TO BE LEAD AGENCY.
ULTIMATELY, THEY GET THE LAST SAY ANYWAY.
THE TOWN BOARD, I, I SUSPECT WOULD OBJECT TO THAT.
AND THEN WE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH A MEDIATION PROCESS OR HAVE A COORDINATED REVIEW STATE DC LAYS OUT OR HAVE AN UNCOORDINATED REVIEW, WHICH WOULD ALSO BE A MESS.
LISTEN, IT'S NOT WORTH, DON'T MAJORITY, MAJORITY RULES.
MY, MY OBJECTION IS ON RECORD AND I GET MY REASONS WHY.
SO ARE YOU STICKING WITH YOUR VOTE? WELL, LET ME JUST FOR THE RECORD SAY THAT, UM, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE, TO ME, ISN'T A REASON TO NOT DO IT.
UM, AND I, I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK MORE INTO FINDING OUT WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE, LIKE, ACTIONABLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHETHER A PLANNING BOARD LEADS IT OR WHETHER THE TOWN BOARD.
BUT I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE'LL DO.
WE'RE GONNA DE FURTHEST DECISION FOR TONIGHT.
SO RIGHT NOW, AND, AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT OFFLINE 'CAUSE I'D REALLY LIKE TO GET INTO THE, TO THE MEAT.
AND WE'LL SEND YOU SOME IN INFORMATION THAT COULD HELP YOU TAKE, TAKE THAT BACK AFTERWARDS.
AND, AND BY THE WAY, FOR THE RECORD, THIS BOARD HAS TRAILBLAZED SEVERAL TIMES, PARTICULARLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
FIRST TIME IN HISTORY, WE CHALLENGED UNDER HIS LEADERSHIP.
THE, UH, BUILDING INSPECTOR OPINION NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE AND WE OVERTURNED.
NO, THEY HAD NE THIS COMMITTEE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN CREATED BY, WAS NEVER, WOULD'VE BEEN CREATED
[02:05:01]
IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS BOARD AT, ON LESLIE'S COMMITTEE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CREATED IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS BOARD.VERY OPEN TOWN BOARD, BUT PLANNING BOARD, WE, WHAT IS THEY STILL START SHOPPING STILL? YEAH, I'M STARTING.
WE ARE AN IN, WE ARE AN INDEPENDENT BOARD AND WE DO HAVE HUGE INPUT PUT ON THIS.
AND WE WILL, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, TWO WAYS.
I MEAN, WE'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO HAVE WORKED ON THIS FOR A YEAR TO HELP.
ALTHOUGH WE WANT TO, THE FOUR OF US WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU GUYS TO, BECAUSE WE MAY, 'CAUSE WE MAY BE A LITTLE TOO CLOSE TO IT AT THIS POINT.
UM, BUT WE WILL, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT STEP FOR THIS TOWN AND OKAY.
AND A NECESSARY THING TO DISCUSS.
GO GO THROUGH THE, YEAH, LET ME, LET ME JUST GIVE A, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC WATCHING, UH, THAT MAY HAVE JUST TUNED IN AND THAT HAS NO CLUE WHAT AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IS.
LEMME GIVE A SUPER HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW, TOUCH ON SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT I'VE HEARD THUS FAR, UH, AS PART OF MY PRESENTATION.
THEN WE'LL JUST REALLY JUST OPEN IT UP FOR YOUR QUESTIONS.
AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IS, UH, A COMPLIMENTING RES RESIDENTIAL UNIT TO AN ESTABLISHED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE.
THAT ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, THEY'RE TYPICALLY SMALLER, UH, UNDER A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING WHEN WE LOOK AT OTHER CODES.
SO SMALL UNITS THAT ARE EITHER EMBEDDED WITHIN THE FOOTPRINT OF AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY HOME.
ALTERNATIVELY, THEY CAN BE, UM, A GARAGE CONVERSION, OR ALTERNATIVELY THEY COULD BE A SEPARATE DETACHED UNIT.
UM, THE IDEA BEHIND AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IS, IS TYPICALLY, UH, THERE'S OWNER OCCUPIED ASPECT TO IT.
UM, BUT THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT COULD BE OCCUPIED BY A PARENT, UM, A RELATIVE.
UM, OR CONVERSELY IT CAN BE JUST FREE MARKET ECONOMY RENTED OUT AS A, AS A RENTAL UNIT TO A NON-RELATIVE.
UM, THE GENERAL PREMISE BEHIND AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT IS, IS I THINK, PRETTY SIMPLE.
IT'S REALLY TO BROADEN THE SPECTRUM OF HOUSING OPTIONS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN A COMMUNITY.
UM, A SMALL STUDIO, UM, CONDO, YOU KNOW, COULD BE $250,000, WHEREAS, UM, AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT APARTMENT STUDIO, YOU KNOW, COULD BE, UH, YOU KNOW, A RENTAL UNIT THAT IS FAR, UM, FAR MORE, UM, ECONOMIC ECONOMICAL FOR SOMEBODY LOOKING FOR AN INEXPENSIVE, INEXPENSIVE RENTAL.
UM, WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS THAT I, TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, FIVE OF THE SIX VILLAGES OF THE TOWN HAVE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT LOCAL LAWS, UM, COUNTYWIDE.
IT APPEARS THAT IF NOT HALF OR MORE THAN HALF HAVE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT LAWS.
AND, UH, IT'S CERTAINLY, UH, A TOPIC WITH THE HOUSING PRICE CRUNCH THAT WE ARE ALL EXPERIENCING, UM, IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES ARE THINKING ABOUT.
UM, THE LOCAL LAW, AS WE TOUCHED ON EARLIER, THE ORIGINS OF IT WERE THE TOWN'S ACCESSIBLE, VIABLE LIVING, UH, COMMITTEE, UM, TOOK IT ON TO EVALUATE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT LAWS, UM, COUNTYWIDE AND REALLY SOUGHT OUT TO CREATE A LOCAL LAW TO PRESENT TO THE TOWN BOARD THAT IT FELT BEST SUITED THE NEEDS OF THE TOWN.
UM, SO WE REALLY DID BORROW QUITE A BIT FROM SOME BEST PRACTICES THAT WE SAW FROM OTHER COMMUNITIES.
AND THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT MANY MONTHS AGO MADE A, A, A POSITIVE RECOMMENDATION TO A LOCAL LAW TO THE TOWN BOARD.
UM, FOR THE MOST PART, THAT LOCAL LAW THAT WAS REFERRED, UM, IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU NOW THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT THE TOWN BOARD WANTED, UH, IN THERE AS A BASELINE.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE UP TO THE PLANNING BOARD TO, AS WE TALKED ABOUT, MAKE A RECOMMENDATION ON THE LOCAL LAW.
AND IF IT FEELS THAT THERE'S ASPECTS OF THE LOCAL LAW THAT CAN BE IMPROVED, UM, YOU'RE WELL WITHIN YOUR RIGHT AS YOU ALWAYS DO TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS IN THAT REGARD.
UM, THE FORMAT OF THE LOCAL LAW IS IT'S A SPECIAL PERMIT.
THE PLANNING BOARD, IF THIS LOCAL LAW IS ADOPTED, WOULD HAVE SPECIAL PERMIT APPROVAL FOR THOSE THAT SEEK TO HAVE APPROVED, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT ON THEIR PROPERTY.
UM, THE LOCAL LAW PROVIDES, UH, HOST, UH, OF CONDITIONS.
WE TALKED ABOUT OWNER OCCUPANCY, UM, NUMBER OF UNITS.
UM, THERE'S SIZE REQUIREMENTS.
UH, ADUS SHOULD NOT BE LESS THAN 400 SQUARE FEET.
THEY SHOULD NOT EXCEED, UH, 800 SQUARE FEET, UM, OR ENTRANCE.
THERE'S, UM, PARKING REQUIREMENTS OF COURSE, UM, AND, AND A WHOLE SERIES OF CONDITIONS THAT ARE DESIGNED TO, UM, REALLY SET FORTH A PATH FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS TO BE BUILT IN CONFORMITY WITH GENERAL, UM, LAYOUT OF THE TOWN AND REALLY TO JUST FIT IN NICELY INTO NEIGHBORHOODS.
UM, HAVING SAID THAT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY A HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW.
THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS I JUST WANT TO ADD TO THAT.
FIRST OF ALL, THE UNDER, IT DOESN'T CHANGE THE UNDERLYING ZONE.
SO THAT IF THE UNDERLYING ZONE IS, UH, R 10, WHATEVER THE SETBACKS
[02:10:01]
AND THE FAR AND THE VILLE SURFACE, UH, REQUIREMENTS ARE IN THAT ZONE, YOU HAVE TO MEET IN THE, EVEN WITH THE A DU, THAT'S IMPORTANT.UM, SECOND, IT HAS ONE OTHER OBJECTIVE.
PEOPLE ARE GETTING PRICED OUT OF THEIR OWN HOMES, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY GO ON A FIXED INCOME.
UH, PRIMARILY, UNFORTUNATELY, BECAUSE OF PROPERTY TAXES IN WESTCHESTER, UH, IS A REASON FOR THAT.
UM, BUT THIS ALLOWS PEOPLE TO STAY IN PLACE BECAUSE IT, IT, THEY CAN EITHER MOVE INTO THE A DU AND RENT OUT THEIR THEIR HOUSE, RIGHT? OR THEY CAN RENT OUT THE A DU TO TAKE TO, TO BRING DOWN THEIR COST, UH, OF, OF OPERATING THE HOUSE TO OFFSET THE COST OF OPERATING THE HOUSE.
SO IT, IT'S GET THAT OBJECTIVE AS WELL.
UM, CAN I, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? SURE.
HAS ANYBODY LOOKED INTO THE NUMBERS? I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT COSTS TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, A GARAGE WITH NO PLUMBING, WHATEVER AND TURN IT INTO A A DU, BUT LET'S SAY IT COSTS $300,000.
WELL, THAT'S AN EXPENSIVE A DU 200 THOUSANDS THE SUCCESS OF, OKAY.
UM, SO YOU TAKE OUT A BANK LOAN FOR THE 200,000, YOU HAVE A MONTHLY PAYMENT.
HAS ANYBODY DONE A STUDY A, WHAT IT WOULD COST TO CONVERT THE A DU? IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT KIND OF LOAN ARE YOU GONNA HAVE TO TAKE OUT AND B, WHAT YOU COULD RENT IT FOR? IT DEPENDS.
WE WE'RE GETTING A REAL ESTATE THING, AND SO THAT MAYBE IT CAN QUELL IT AND, AND WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH IT.
THE THING ABOUT AN A DU IS GOING, IT'S GONNA BE A DECISION OF THE HOMEOWNER, RIGHT? THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE OUT A LOAN TO DO WHAT? THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS AT ALL.
SO THAT PERSON IS GONNA DECIDE ON THEIR PROPERTY WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT, WHETHER IT'S WORTH IT OR NOT.
AND THEN THE OTHER PART WHEN YOU, THE PART THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, ELDERLY STAYING IN PLACE, SO YOU CAN HAVE, YEAH, THAT'S WHAT I WAS COMMENTING, BUT I WANTED US TO TALK ABOUT CONFORMITY BECAUSE THE REALITY IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE NOW RENTING OUT PLACES THAT ARE NONCONFORMING THAT ARE DANGEROUS.
THIS ALSO GIVES A PERSON, UH, A PATHWAY, I WOULD SAY, TO GO TO THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, SAY, I WANT TO DO THIS.
PLACE WHAT MAKES IT LEGAL, WHAT MAKES IT SAFE, AND GIVES IT A PATHWAY TO MAKE THESE APARTMENTS, UM, YOUR HONOR, KATRINA, THESE ILLEGAL APARTMENTS THAT ARE ALL OVER THE TOWN OF GREENBURG SAFE.
YOHAN, DID YOU SOMETHING? YEAH.
I JUST WANNA READ WHAT WE HAVE WRITTEN HERE.
AND THE LAW, THE POINT OF THE A DU IS TO CREATE DIVERSITY IN HOUSING STOCK WITH MINIMAL INCREASE IN BUILDING DENSITY TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL HOUSING OPPORTUNITIES TO PROVIDE ECONOMIC SUPPORT TO EXISTING RESIDENTS, BETTER FACILITATE AGING IN PLACE, AND TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE PROPERTY VALUES.
AND TO YOUR POINT, MICHAEL, OR YOUR QUESTION, RATHER, THE STATE OFFERS GRANTS WITH CERTAIN, UH, QUALIFYING CRITERIA, AND THE AVERAGE AWARD IS SOMEWHERE IN THE BALLPARK OF 90, I BELIEVE, TO 110,000 TO BUILD, TO CONVERT IT TO EXACTLY.
AND THEN DID SOME ORGANIZATIONS THAT ACTUALLY OFFER ALMOST, UH, READY MADE A DU AT, UH, LESSER COST THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY JUST DROPPED ONTO A PROPERTY.
WELL, THE ONLY REASON I RAISED THE QUESTION IS BECAUSE YES, IT'S VERY ATTRACTIVE, OR THAT'S THE WRONG WORD.
IT'S A GOOD THING THAT AN A DU COULD ALLOW SOMEBODY WHO COULD OTHERWISE NOT AFFORD THE PROPERTY TAXES TO STAY IN THIS HOME.
BUT DO THE NUMBERS WORK OUT? THAT'S MY ONLY QUESTION.
I'M, WE'RE NOT GONNA GET A ANSWER OR NO ANSWER HERE, BUT SOMETHING TO LOOK INTO.
BUT IF I ADD AN A DU TO MY HOUSE, INCREASING THE PROPERTY VALUE, MY PROPERTY TAXES ALSO MAY GO UP.
ONE THING, AND THIS IS NOT GONNA ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, BUT I, I DID INTEND, I I DID INTEND TO MENTION THIS DURING MY, UH, PRESENTATION.
UM, WHAT THE TREND THAT WE HAVE SEEN COUNTYWIDE IS THAT FOR THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT, UH, HAVE ADOPTED ADUS, EVEN DECADES BACK, OR THOSE THAT HAVE ADOPTED ADUS IN THE LAST, LET'S SAY TWO TO THREE YEARS, THERE IS CERTAINLY NOT A FLOOD OF, UM, APPLICATIONS.
SO FOR INSTANCE, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE LITERALLY SEEING, UM, AND CALLING UP COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE A DU LAWS ON THE BOOKS FOR SAY, TWO TO THREE YEARS.
AND THEY'RE LITERALLY TELLING US THEY GET TWO APPLICATIONS PER YEAR, UM, ONE APPLICATION PER YEAR.
YOU KNOW, AND LISTEN, EVERY COMMUNITY'S DIFFERENT.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT'S ABSOLUTELY GONNA HAPPEN HERE, RIGHT.
BUT IN GENERAL, UM, IT SEEMS PRETTY SAFE TO SAY, UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, AS WAS INDICATED, IT'S REALLY GOTTA BE RIGHT FOR YOU.
AND PROBABLY YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET WEALTHY OFF OF IT.
BUT, UM, THE NUMBER, THERE'S NOT A, A FLOOD OF THESE APPLICATIONS.
[02:15:01]
SO FOR WHAT? FOR THAT, WHAT THAT'S WORTH.IT DOES SEEM TO BE A CONSISTENT TREND.
AND, AND, AND I HAVE A, I HAVE A COMMENT ON THAT IF I MAY, MAY I, SO I ACTUALLY WATCHED YOUR PRESENTATION TO THE TOWN BOARD ON YOUTUBE, AND I REMEMBER YOU SAID THAT, AND WHAT CAME TO MIND WAS, IF THERE ARE SO FEW APPLICATIONS, THEN WHAT'S THE POINT? I, I'LL, LET ME, I'LL EXPLAIN THAT.
WAIT, I'M, I'M, YOU ASKED A QUESTION.
YOU ASKED A QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, ANSWER, I'M NOT DONE.
WHAT'S THE POINT? QUESTION MARK.
LOOK, I HAVE THIS 15 PAGE DOCUMENT THAT I HAVE TO SUMMARIZE HERE.
UM, THEN WHAT'S THE POINT? AND IT'S INTERESTING, I, I LOOKED AT SEATTLE.
I'M NOT SAYING SEATTLE JUST BECAUSE A FRIEND OF MINE KNOWS SOMEBODY IN SEATTLE AND THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH ADUS.
SEATTLE IS A CITY, GREENBURG IS A TOWN.
I'M NOT SAYING SEATTLE IS COMPARABLE, BUT IT'S INTERESTING.
IN SEATTLE, THEY PASSED ADUS IN 2006 AND THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, 240, 250 APPLICATIONS UP THROUGH 2019.
IN 2022, THAT'S THREE YEARS LATER, THEY HAD ALMOST A THOUSAND APPLICATIONS FOUR TIMES AS MUCH.
YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THE LAW.
THEY ELIMINATED OWNER OCCUPIED HOUSING, THEY ELIMINATED OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
THEY ALLOWED YOU TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE A DU ON THE PROPERTY.
AND THEY, IN, WE SHAKING YOUR HEAD A BIT.
AND, AND THEY INCREASED THE SIZE.
SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT MY POINT IS, BUT I GUESS THE POINT IS, IF, IF, IF, COME ON MICHAEL.
IF YOU ONLY GET TWO OR THREE APPLICATIONS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE POINT? ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU REALLY WANNA GET A LOT OF APPLICATIONS.
GREENER AGAIN, IS DIFFERENT THAN SEATTLE.
BUT YOU MAY HAVE TO REALLY KIND OF, I YOU GONNA GO, I WANT TO ADDRESS IT.
I, I, I WANNA, FIRST, I WANNA ADDRESS, I WANNA ADDRESS IT.
BECAUSE I'LL ADDRESS THIS NOW.
FIRST OF ALL, IF WE DON'T DO IT, GOVERNOR HO'S GONNA DO IT FOR US.
AND THERE IT WON'T BE ANY OF THOSE RESTRICTIONS.
OKAY? BECAUSE THAT'S ALREADY WHAT YOU PROPOSED IN A BUDGET TWICE.
YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE RESTRICTIONS AND YOU, YOU COULD RUN INTO BIG TROUBLE IN MY VIEW.
OKAY? YOU WANT IT CONTROLLED LOCALLY.
NUMBER TWO, I, THIS IS A TOOL THAT CAN BE USED IN SEVERAL WAYS, NOT JUST WITH EXISTING HOUSING.
IT'S BEING USED EXTREMELY EFFECTIVELY WITH NEW, WITH NEW CONSTRUCTION.
IN MOUNT KISCO, WE'RE BUILDING A CONDO COMPLEX IN MOUNT KISCO.
WE WERE BEFORE US NOT ONLY DO THIS, BUT WE ALSO SPENT THREE DAYS AT PACE UNIVERSITY LAND USE INSTITUTE DOING THIS TOO.
SO, UH, WITH EXPERTS IN THIS AREA, WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS ATTACHING ADUS TO NEW CONDO COMPLEXES.
WHAT DOES THAT DO? WELL, IT GIVES YOU THE AFFORDABLE UNIT WITH THE, THE A DU BUYS DOWN THE OUT-OF-POCKET COST FOR THE PERSON BUYING THE CONDO TO MAKE THAT MORE AFFORDABLE FOR THE PERSON'S.
GOT A LITTLE BIT MORE MONEY, RIGHT? SO IT'S A WIN-WIN SITUATION.
IT'S BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL THERE.
CAN IMAGINE IF WE HAD ADUS AND COULD HAVE DONE THAT AT ELMWOOD.
MAY WE COULD HAVE, LET ME FINISH, PLEASE.
WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN 30, 40, 50 AFFORDABLE UNITS AT ELMWOOD THAT WE HAVE ZERO RIGHT NOW.
UM, I KNOW THAT WE SAID THAT, I KNOW MICHAEL HAD QUESTIONS.
I KNOW THAT WE SAID THAT WE WERE GONNA GO OVER THIS.
WHEN WE GO OFF ON THE TANGENT, THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED ARE LIKE TOUCHED UPON.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA JUST HAVE TO REVIEW IT AGAIN WHEN WE GO TO THE QUESTIONS.
SO I WAS JUST HOPING MAYBE WE COULD START GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENT.
I DON'T THINK WE, I WASN'T PLANNING ON GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENT POINT, POINT, POINT.
I DIDN'T THINK I WAS HOPING EVERYBODY READ IT.
WE DID, AND THERE'S, I DID READ IT AND THERE'S QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ON VARIOUS POINTS.
THAT'S WHAT WE, IF YOU WANT, I THINK WE SHOULD GO THROUGH QUESTIONS, NOT PAGE BY PAGE.
CAN I JUST ADDRESS SOMETHING THAT MICHAEL SAID WITHIN THE LAW ITSELF, THERE'S A CAP 25 APPLICATIONS PER YEAR, PER YEAR MAXIMUM.
AND I BELIEVE THERE'S SOMETHING THAT SAYS THE TOWN BOARD CAN VARY THAT 24, RIGHT? IS THAT STILL IN THERE? YEAH, DEPENDING ON THE DEMAND, YEAH.
I DON'T SEE IT'S 24, 25 IS IN, IN THE BOOK.
HOW, HOW'D THE ACTUAL ONE STEP IN? THERE'LL BE AN EFFICIENT PLANNING BOARD CHAIR AT THE TIME.
UH, SECTION 14, UM, WHAT IT SAYS IS THE TOWN BOARD SHALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO INSTITUTE A CAP.
ONE HAS NOT BEEN INSTITUTED YET.
AND THAT, SO THE TOWN BOARD COULD LOWER IT LOWER THAN 25 IF IT SO CHOSE.
BUT, UH, THE AVLS RECOMMENDATION WAS TO START WITH A CAP
[02:20:01]
25.SO I HAVE, THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS FOR 14 AND 15.
IT'S VERY VAGUE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE CAP IS.
IT SAYS THE TOWN BOARD SHALL HAVE THE ABILITY TO INSTITUTE A CAP ON THE NUMBER OF A DU PERMITS ISSUED ANNUALLY PER ZONING DISTRICT OR A TOTAL IN ON THE TOWN BY ADOPTING A RESOLUTION THAT SEEMS VERY ARBITRARY AND VAGUE.
SO HOW DO THEY DECIDE WHERE THESE WILL BE OR HOW MANY THERE'LL BE? THEY'RE NOT JUST DECIDING AND THEN THEY'RE NOT DECIDING ON HOW MANY, WHERE THEY'LL BE NUMBER ONE.
SO BY ZONING DISTRICT, NO DECIDING HOW MANY APPLICATIONS IT SAYS ISSUED ANNUALLY PER PER ZONING DISTRICT OR AS A TOTAL IN THE, IN THE TOWN.
THEY RESERVE, THEY WOULD RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DO EITHER.
SO IN ZONING DISTRICT IS DIFFERENT THAN SAYING, AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAN SAYING, OKAY, WE CAN HAVE 25 IN GREENBURG IS DIFFERENT THAN SAYING THIS YEAR WE CAN HAVE 25 IN THE R SEVEN FIVE.
THE TOWN COULD, BUT, BUT THERE'S, I THINK THE INTENT IS FOR THE, THE TOWN TO, TO, TO LEARN, RIGHT? SO LET'S JUST SAY THAT, UM, 12 APPLICATIONS CAME IN YEAR ONE AND THE PLANNING BOARD SENT A MEMO TO THE TOWN BOARD.
WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO MEET THREE TIMES PER MONTH TO ACTUALLY, THAT WAS, THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL LIVING FACTOR.
THE BOARD WOULD LEARN FROM THAT AND HAVE TO SAY, OH, WELL WE EITHER NEED TO FLEX THE RULES UP SO THAT SOME OF THESE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE OR, UM, MAYBE WE NEED TO INSTITUTE INSTITUTE A CAP OF FIVE.
SO TO PROVIDE, BUT THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT IS THAT WE COULD, WE COULDN'T HANDLE MORE THAN TWO A MONTH AS A PLANNING BOARD.
BUT BY THE WAY, AMANDA WAS, IS ALSO A MEMBER OF THE A PL.
SHE'S AT THE MEETINGS AS WELL.
OH, SO THEY ARE, YOU'RE AT INTERVIEW MEETING.
UM, SO I, SO THAT WAS WHAT I, I'M TRYING TO, I THINK ALSO, NOT THAT WE, WE MAY NOT GET THOUSANDS OF THEM FLOODING IN.
SO THIS MAY BE A NON-ISSUE, BUT MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A FAIR DISTRIBUTION FOR THE APPLICANTS WHO WANT TO, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S ALREADY CAN BE DONE BY THE, THE, THE WAY THAT IT'S STRUCTURED NOW.
AND I THINK MICHAEL ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS TOO ARBITRARY, BUT, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE CAN DISCUSS HOW TO FIX IT.
THE PLANNING BOARD ACTUALLY HAS THE OPTION.
LET'S, LET'S SAY ONE STREET SAYS, GEE, WHY DON'T WE PUT AN A DU IN EVERY HOUSE? THE PLANNING BOARD HAS A DISCRETION NOT TO DO THAT BASED ON NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER AND DENSITY AND CONSIDERATION OF SEVERAL FACTORS.
SEE BASICALLY SECRET FACTORS SO THAT WE, THE PLANNING BOARD CAN ACTUALLY CONTROL THE DISTRIBUTION TO SOME EXTENT FOR THAT REASON.
'CAUSE WE WERE CONCERNED OF THE SAME THING.
YOU HAVE WHAT IF YOU GET ONE AREA, EDGEMONT DOESN'T WANT ANY OF THEM.
'CAUSE NOBODY, NOBODY NEEDS THEM.
BUT THEY ALL END UP IN FAIRVIEW.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TRUTHFULLY, BECAUSE I THINK WE
AND AGAIN, THIS HAS TO BE A LIVING DOCUMENT.
'CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REACTION'S GONNA BE.
I, WHICH IS WHY WOULD, THERE ARE SO MANY GUARDRAILS.
WE HAVE MORE GUARDRAILS AND, AND GARRETT CAN CONFIRM THIS IN THIS LAW THAN ANY LAW IN WESTCHESTER COUNTY.
AND WE WANTED TO START OUT THAT WAY.
WE DIDN'T WANNA START OUT LIKE GOVERNOR HOEL WOULD LET DO, WHY WAS A WILD WEST TO DO WITH, UM, SOMETHING YOU TOUCHED ON BEFORE AND IT HAD TO DO, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BUILDING NEW BUILDINGS THAT ARE BUILDING THE A DU, I SEE THAT LESS AS WELL.
I GUESS IT WOULD BE AFFORDABLE, BUT I, I DON'T SEE THAT NECESSARILY AS THE SPIRIT OF WHAT I THOUGHT THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW WAS.
BECAUSE NOW THAT START SOUNDS LIKE REAL ESTATE DEALS.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING IN AND SAY, OKAY, WELL WE CAN BUILD THESE THIS WAY AND THEN WE CAN HAVE THE ADDITIONAL A DU INSTEAD OF JUST BUILDING LIKE A SINGLE FAMILY OR SINGLE FAMILY CONDO OR CON OR, OR CO-OP.
NOW IT BECOMES WE CAN MAKE MORE MONEY AS OPPOSED TO WE CAN SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, AND WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS, AN A DU PRICE RANGE IN UNINCORPORATED GREENBURG IS PROBABLY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN AN A DU IN DOBBS FERRY IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE GONNA CHARGE.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MAKING IT AFFORDABLE, IF PEOPLE START BUILDING BUILDINGS THAT HAVE A DU CALLING IT A SINGLE FAMILY WITH AN A DU, I JUST KIND OF SEE, I DON'T KNOW.
IF I RECALL
NEW HOMES ARE BEING BUILT WITH ONE OR MORE, RIGHT? ADUS? NO, THAT'S WHAT YOU, YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT.
SO, SO I'M JUST ASKING, IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? NOT REGULATE.
WE, WE, WE HAVE SPECIFICATION NUMBER ONE, IT HAS TO BE OWN OWNER OCCUPANCY, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
SO THE IDEA, UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN AND MORE SO COMMERCIALLY, YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT DEVELOPERS COMING IN AND DOING THAT.
[02:25:01]
RIGHT? THEMSELVES.RIGHT? SO WHEN THEY MOVE IN A FAMILY THAT COULDN'T AFFORD, SAY A HALF A MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE NOW WITH THE POTENTIAL, UH, RENT CAPABILITY FROM THE A DU, THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO THAT ON THAT.
AND I'VE SEEN IT DONE IN HARLEM.
I'VE SEEN IT DONE PLACES WHERE, OH, I CAN'T AFFORD THIS HOUSE, BUT YOU HAVE TO STAY HERE FOR FIVE YEARS AND HAVE A TENANT AND WE'LL LET TENANT AND WE'LL LET YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE.
SO I'M, I'M, THAT'S, THAT'S IN TERMS OF, THAT'S IN THE LAW.
NEW NEW BILLS AND THE SCENARIO THAT YOU BROUGHT UP.
BUT THE, THE HEART OF THIS IS FOCUSING ON THE COMMUNITY AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW AND WHERE WE'RE GOING TO, WHERE WE'RE GROWING TO EVENTUALLY THE, THE DEMOGRAPHICS ARE CHANGING.
YOU KNOW? SO WE WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS FOR THE FUTURE, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AND I, AND I, I UNDERSTAND ALL OF THAT.
MINE DID HAVE TO DO WITH COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND SEEING US AS LIKE A WIDE OPEN OPPORTUNITY TO COME IN AND JUST START DOING THAT.
BUT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, OWNER OCCUPIED, WHICH IS IN HERE YEAH.
AND THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THEN I CAN'T SEE.
THE LAW WAS DESIGNED AND, AND YOU WILL GET TO WHY THESE TWO ARE, AND I AM TOO UPSET ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE BY THE TOWN, BY THE TOWN BOARD.
BUT, UM, THE WHOLE IDEA IS WE, WE'VE ONLY HAD ONE TOOL BESIDES SECTION EIGHT HOUSING.
FEDERAL HOUSING, OUR ONLY TOOL FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN GREENBURG FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS HAS BEEN SET ASIDES, WHICH HAVE TOTALED 70.
WHAT'S THAT WITH 10 PER THE 10% SET ASIDE? WE DO, I THINK IT'S 70 UNITS, MAYBE 75 MAYBE.
AND THAT'S ONLY FOR FEDERAL STUFF, RIGHT? YEAH.
MARKET RATE, UH, AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS INCORPORATED INTO MARKET RATE PROJECTS.
MARKET RATE, THE SET ASIDE HAS NOT CREATED A LOT OF INVENTORY FOR US.
WHAT DO WE FIGURE? EIGHT, 900 UNITS.
SO IT'S ONLY 30 CAME FROM EVERY PLACE ELSE.
ME? YOU'VE MADE THE POINT OF BEEN GREATER.
IT'S ONLY SEVEN SET ASIDES DON'T SET.
ADUS ARE ONE, THE FIRST TOOL, A TOOL AMONG SEVERAL OTHER TOOLS THAT HAVE TO BE IMPLEMENTED TO, TO, TO PROVIDE HOUSING.
SECTION EIGHT HOUSING IS TAKEN CARE OF.
GREENBERG HOUSING AUTHORITIES DOING A WONDERFUL JOB WITH THAT.
WE JUST SAW A GREAT PROJECT THEY, THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE ABOVE THAT.
WE'RE TALKING PROBABLY WHAT, 50% A MI TO TO 80% A MI.
SO THAT'S WHAT I MEANT BY LITECH.
SO PEOPLE WHEN THEY GET, WHEN THEY DO THE SET ASIDE, THEY'RE GETTING A TAX AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THAT
THEIR TAX, THEY'RE GETTING A TAX LEGALLY REQUIRED.
IT'S PART OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
IF, IF YOU BILL, IF YOU BILL, THAT WAS THE WHOLE THING WITH, WITH ELMWOOD WHEN IT WAS GONNA BE CONDOS.
BUT WHEN IT BECAME SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES, ALL LAW DOESN'T APPLY TO IT ONLY APPLIES TO MULTIFAMILY.
LOOK, ONE THING YOU CAN THINK OF, IF THIS LAW PASSED AS IS RIGHT NOW, WAVE MAGIC WAND, SIX LOT SUBDIVISION, AND YOU DO NOTHING ELSE, SIX LOT SUBDIVISION COMES INTO THE TOWN OF GREENBURG SINGLE FAMILY.
UM, THAT APPLICANT COULD SAY, I WOULD ACTUALLY LIKE TO WORK, UH, ONE A DU INTO ONE OF THESE UNITS.
YOU'D HAVE TO GIVE A SPECIAL PERMIT AS PART OF YOUR SUBDIVISION APPROVAL.
CAN TALK ABOUT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.
WE CAN TALK ABOUT SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT FOOTAGE.
WHY DON, YOU TALK ABOUT, WHAT ABOUT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE CHANGES THAT THE, THE TOWN PROPOSED? I'D LIKE TO, TO DO THAT FIRST AND THEN WE'LL COME BACK TO SQUARE FORWARD.
I THOUGHT THAT WAS ONE OF THE, THE LOT SIDE.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
OH, I THOUGHT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE ACTUAL SIZE OF THE A DII DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC HERE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALLOW ADUS ON THE SMALLER LOT.
COULD YOU, COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO? WHICH PORTION OF THE LOT? UH, OKAY, THIS, I GOT IT IN FRONT OF ME.
Q1, IT, IT EXEMPT, IT EXEMPTS, UH, 10,000 SQUARE FOOT FROM ANYTHING, BASICALLY.
[02:30:01]
ANYTHING.AND 20,000 SQUARE BELOW 20,000 FROM HAVING AN ACCESSORY, A NEW ACCESSORY BUILDING.
SO, SO THE BASIC CONCEPT, BECAUSE YOU, YOU COULD STILL FOOL, FOOL, UH, FOOL AROUND WITH, UH, THE HOW BIG IT HAS TO BE FOR, UH, FOR THE UNIT.
MY CONCERN IS THAT IT DOES NOT ALLOW A ACCESSIBLE, ACCESSIBLE UNITS ON SMALL LOTS.
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE LOGIC THERE BECAUSE IF YOU, ON SOME OF THESE R FIVE LOTS, YOU HAVE A STANDALONE GARAGE RIGHT NOW, CHANGE THE TOWN BECAUSE THEY HAVE A STANDALONE, UH, A STANDALONE GARAGE AND THEY HAVE A LONG DRIVEWAY.
AND SO WHY CAN'T THAT PERSON CONVERT THAT TWO CAR GARAGE INTO A I'LL TELL, TELL YOU WHAT THE RATIONALIZATION IS.
I'M NOT GONNA SAY IT'S A RATIONALE 'CAUSE I DON'T, I DON'T AGREE WITH IT EITHER.
THE RATIONALIZATION IS THE WORRIED ABOUT DENSITY.
BUT I'M GONNA LET JOHANN ANSWER THE REST OF THIS BECAUSE HE CAME UP WITH AN ARGUMENT TODAY THAT THERE'S SOMETHING CURRENTLY IN THE CODE THAT IS MUCH WORSE IN TERMS OF POTENTIAL DENSITY THAN IN, THAN THIS LAW.
DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT IT? I'M TRYING TO FIND, NO, HE NEEDS IT JOB, BUT YOU'LL UNDERSTAND IT HAS TO DO WITH DENSITY.
I TOOK A PICTURE OF THE SCREEN.
SO THIS IS, UM, THE TOWN CODE 2 85, CORRECT? TOWN CODE 2 85.
I THINK THE SECTION IS RUMORS, UH, RUMORS AND BORDERS.
ONE, RUMORS AND BORDERS SHALL ONLY BE PERMITTED AND OWNER-OCCUPIED, DETACHED, SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS, NOT MORE THAN TWO RUMORS AND OR BORDERS SHALL BE PERMITTED PER DWELLING UNIT.
THE RESULTANT DENSITY FOR THE ENTIRETY OF ANY DWELLING UNIT CONTAINING RUMORS AND OR BORDERS, SHALL NOT EXCEED TWO PERSONS PER SEPARATE BEDROOM.
UH, RENTED QUARTERS PROVIDED FOR RUMORS AND OR BORDERS SHALL NOT BE ADVERTISED.
PREMISES AND OFF STREET PARKING SHALL BE PROVIDED FOR EACH RUMOR AND OR BORDER IN ADDITION TO THE PARKING SPACE OTHERWISE REQUIRED PURSUANT TO THIS CHAPTER.
SO I READ THAT BEFORE WHEN I WAS LOOKING AT DIFFERENT THAT'S EXACTLY, I DID NOT REALIZE THAT THAT WAS ON THE BOOKS.
AND I WAS LIKE, WELL, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT IT WAS LEGAL TO HAVE MORE YEAH.
MORE DENSITY THAN WHAT WE PROPOSING, UM, UNTIL A WEEK AGO.
DO YOU NEED A SPECIAL PERMIT FOR BORDERS? SPECIAL PERMIT EBI.
SO THEORETICALLY SOMEBODY COULD HAVE THEIR HOUSE AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW AND CREATE MORE DENSITY.
EVERY SINGLE, SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE COULD DO THAT.
THERE'S NO COULD DO THIS RIGHT NOW.
ACTUALLY CREATES, UM, UH, SPACE THAT'S DESIGNATED FOR NEW RESIDENTS AND IT'S MANAGED BY THE TOWN WE HAVE BUILDING IN INSPECTIONS, SETBACK, ALL SETBACK.
IT, IT MAINTAINS THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT, IT'S IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S CURATED.
WHEREAS AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, I COULD GET TWO RUMORS AND BOARDED BASED ON FOUR BEDROOM, TWO BATHROOMS. MM-HMM.
ADDED TWO ADDITIONAL, UH, CARS TO MY DRIVEWAY THAT ALREADY EXISTS.
AND AUTOMATICALLY THERE'S AN ADDITIONAL DENSITY, BUT WE'D HAVE TO GIVE YOU A PERMIT AND WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT
AND, AND THAT'S PROVIDED THAT I CONSIDER DOING IT LEGALLY, WHICH IS GOING THROUGH THE PERMIT PROCESS.
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT ANYBODY IN GREENBERG WILL DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL ALONG THOSE LINES, BUT I'M JUST SAYING THAT PROVE THAT'S TRUE.
MY POINT THAT IT WOULD MAKE SENSE FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD WITH SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES THAT CREATES NICE PARAMETERS.
SO I WANT TO HEAR THE REASONING BEHIND THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM.
THE 10,000 SQUARE FOOT AS OPPOSED TO A 5,000 OR 7,500.
WELL, FIRST OF, SO LET, LET ME UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL I'M LOOKING AT AT SECTION FIVE.
Q YOUR ORIGINAL PROPOSAL TO THE TOWN WAS WHAT? THAT THEY COULD HAVE AN A DU IN R FIVE IN ANY, ANY OF THOSE? YES, SIR.
MICHAEL, I THINK THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT IS TO GO TO SECTION Q ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS AT, DO YOU SEE THAT? YEAH.
I'M LOOKING AT IT WHERE IT SAYS,
[02:35:01]
UM, WHICH CONTAIN A MINIMUM OF 10,000 SQUARE FEET.THAT WAS, STRIKE THAT ESSENTIALLY STRIKE THAT IS WHAT THE, UM, AVLS AND THE 20,000 SQUARE AND THE 20,000.
THAT'S WHAT THE TOM BOARD ADDED TOWN ADDED, WHICH ESSENTIALLY TAKES, I, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, GARRETT, I, I WOULD SUSPECT THERE ARE VERY FEW R FIVE WATTS LEFT THAT ARE 10,000 SQUARE FEET IN THIS TOWN.
I MEAN, THERE ARE SOME, BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S MANY OF THEM.
SO BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS SAYING YOU CAN'T HAVE AN A DU IN ANY R FIVE ZONE OR, OR SEVEN OR 7,500 ZONE, 77.5 ZONE IN THE WHOLE TOWN.
WHAT'S THE REASON NOT THE TOWN BOARD END OF THOSE? THAT'S I'M SURE GENERALLY, UM, A CONCERN THAT ON A FIVE OR SEVEN, 5,000 OR 7,500 SQUARE FOOT LOT, UM, ENLARGING A DRIVEWAY TO BE ABLE TO FIT FOUR CAR CARS, UM, WOULD HAVE A LOOK IN A FIELD THAT MIGHT BE OUT OF CHARACTER.
EXCEPT, EXCEPT THIS TAKING CARE OF IN THE LAW.
THE LAW FIRST OF ALL SAYS YOU'VE GET GOT FAR REQUIREMENTS.
YOU'VE GET PERMEABLE SERVICE REQUIREMENTS CONSISTENT WITH THE ZONE.
AND IT ALSO SAYS, WHEN DETERMINING THE PLANNING BOARD CAN LOOK AT THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND ENSURE IT HAS TO ENSURE IT'S IN KEEPING WITH THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
BECAUSE I LIVE IN A 7,500 AND IT, IT REALLY DOES SORT OF DEPEND ON THE SETUP OF THE HOUSE.
MOST OF THEM, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS LITTLE 1950S, ALL OF THEM WERE BUILT.
BUT AGAIN, THE POSSIBILITY THAT IT'S HAPPENING NOW AND NO ONE IS THE LEAST BIT INCONVENIENCE.
AND WHEN I SAY HAPPENING NOW THAT'S TRUE.
WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO BE TALKING ABOUT RENTING TO A STRANGER.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MULTIPLE GENERATIONS.
UM, THE ONLY THING THAT I DID WANNA ASK THOUGH IS YOU GUYS PUT THAT IF, UM, IT'S A STUDIO, YOU HAVE TO HAVE TWO CARS.
NO, NO ONE CAR YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE.
SO I WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT ONE, PROVIDE THE WORD PROVIDE OR AVAILABLE.
RIGHT? SO IF, IF YOU, IF YOU DO THE TWO BEDROOMS, IT'S A GOOD CALL UP.
YOU COULD PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE ADEQUATE PARKING AS IT EXISTS RIGHT NOW ON YOUR PROPERTY WITH AN A DU BECAUSE OF THE ADDITIONAL SPACE THAT'S REQUIRED.
IF YOU HAVE ONE CAR AND IT'S A ONE BEDROOM, A DU, YOU NEED ONE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPACE.
'CAUSE THE TOWN COAT SAYS YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO TWO, OUR STREET PARKING FOR ANY SINGLE FAMILY HOUSE TWO'S THE BASE.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT POTENTIALLY THREE.
BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, IF, IF THE MS. EL YEAH.
IS, IS LIVING IN HER HOUSE, SHE HAS HER ONE CAR.
SHE DOES A-A-A-A-D-U FOR ONE PERSON.
SHE GIVES THEM A SPACE THAT'S TWO CARS PER SINGLE FAMILY.
NO, SHE DID THREE, THREE SPACES.
CAN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT THE SPACES LOOK LIKE? A GARAGE IS A SPACE, RIGHT? RIGHT.
THE DRIVEWAY, THE, THE LENGTH AND DISTANCE OF A CAR IS A SPACE.
AS LONG AS IT'S OFF THE STREET.
YOU, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING BEFORE ABOUT MULTI-GENERATIONAL AND THE LARGEST ETHNIC, UM, THE LARGEST ETHNIC, UH, GROWING, UM, DEMOGRAPHIC WITHIN THE TOWN HAS A TRADITION OF MULTI-GENERATIONAL HISPANIC LIVING.
SO ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE THAT DEMOGRAPHIC IS GROWN AT SUCH A LARGE RATE, HOW DO WE ACCOMMODATE THAT? THAT'S A GREAT POINT.
WHICH DIDN'T RIGHT? MOVING FORWARD, HISPANIC, LATINX, HISPANIC, HOWEVER THEY PREFER TO BE IDENTIFIED.
SO AGAIN, WE ARE JUST CREATING THE FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT THE NEIGHBORHOODS ARE EVENTUALLY GOING TO LOOK LIKE ANYWAY, AS OPPOSED TO, SO BACK TO THE 10,000, ARE WE REDLINING THAT I WAS GONNA ASK WHAT WE'RE DOING RECOMMENDATIONS PROCESS.
HOW DID, HOW DID THE PEOPLE THAT DIDN'T WRITE THE ONE THING, MICHAEL AND, AND YOU, AND ABOUT THE 10,000 AND THE 20,000, I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND CONCEPTUALLY WHAT THEY PROPOSE BY SENDING THAT TO, TO THE PLANNING BOARD BY ADDING THOSE, THOSE TWO CRITERIA.
SO ANYTHING UNDER 10,000 SQUARE FEET, NO WAY DO YOU DON'T EVEN ASK.
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU COULD TECHNICALLY YOU COULD OBTAIN A VARIANCE TECHNICALLY THAT'S, THAT'S ALWAYS, THAT'S ALWAYS TECHNICALLY THAT'S ALWAYS TRUE, RIGHT? YEAH.
I I, I, I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT IT VERY MUCH, BUT I WOULD SAY THIS,
[02:40:02]
YOU KNOW, UM, IN OUR RECENT DISCUSSION, THE LAST FIVE MINUTES, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER AND IT SAYS HERE, YOU KNOW, THE PLANNING BOARD HAS DISCRETION.UM, THIS IS A BIG THING FOR ME.
THE PLANNING BOARD SHALL HAVE DISCRETION TO DENY AN APPLICATION WHERE MULTIPLE ADUS COULD DETRIMENTALLY IMPACT THE AREA.
UM, WHICH NUMBER? 15? I BELIEVE.
I MEAN, LOOK, UNFORTUNATELY I'M A LAWYER AND, AND WHEN I SEE VAGUE LANGUAGE, AT LEAST I'M TAUGHT TO TRY AND RECOGNIZE IT.
THERE'S NO CRITERIA, BUT IT'S ALSO A BAD IDEA FOR US ON THE PLANNING BOARD BECAUSE ALL YOU NEED IS SOMEBODY TO FILE AN APPLICATION.
THE NEIGHBOR COMES UP AND COMPLAINS, YOU KNOW, IT'S GONNA DETRIMENTALLY IMPACT THE AREA.
THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO DETERMINE, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT IT DOES OR NOT.
AND THERE'S NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA.
IT'S NICE TO SAY THEORETICALLY, YOU KNOW, WE WILL MANAGE THE SITUATION TO PRESERVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER, BUT IF THERE'S A LOT OF APPLICATIONS JUST LIKE MORE THAN TWO OR THREE A YEAR, WE'RE GONNA BE ABSOLUTELY OVERWHELMED.
MICHAEL, LET ME ASK, CAN I ASK HIM A QUESTION? PLEASE, MICHAEL? IF, IF THE WAY WE LOOKED AT IT AND, AND MAYBE I LIKE THE IDEA OF CRITERIA.
THE BETTER, THE MORE PRECISE THE LAW IS, THE SAFER.
I GUESS THE WAY WE ENVISIONED IT IS IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN THAN SEEKER.
THEY, THEY, WE HAVE THE RIGHT UNDER SEEKER.
IF WE DON'T THINK IT'S WITHIN NEIGHBORHOOD CHARACTER TO PAUSE X SOMETHING, WE CAN DO THAT.
RIGHT? RIGHT NOW UNDER SEEKER.
SO MAYBE WE SHOULD LIST WHAT SOME OF THESE CRITERIA ARE UNDER SEEKER TO MAKE IT DEFINE IT.
IT'S REALLY JUDGMENT, NOT DISCRETION.
BUT WE DO HAVE THE JUDGMENT AND IT HAS TO STILL BE BASED ON FACTS, NOT ON OPINION.
AND YES, THERE ARE ONE OF THE REASONS WE LIMITED IT TO 25 APPLICATIONS WAS EXACTLY WHAT, THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WE DID IT TO IT, TO SEE IF IT BECOMES A PROBLEM.
I I, I WANT, I WANT A LITTLE BIT OF CLARITY.
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR CONCERN IS MORE SO THE AMOUNT OF, UH, EFFORT THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO POTENTIALLY SITE VISITS AND THE LIKE AND THE BANDWIDTH OF THE BOARD.
I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S VALID TO GUIDE THE PLANNING BOARD'S DECISION.
I, I I, I, I AGREE WITH WHAT, UH, THE IDEA OF WHAT MIKE HILL IS SAYING AND, AND, AND THE QUESTION NOW HOW DO WE MANAGE IT? BECAUSE WE SAW THAT AS A, THE GOAL WAS NOT TO PROLIFERATE THE UNITS IN ONE SECTION OF TOWN.
SO NOW THE, SO WE SAY, WELL, WE'LL GIVE US SOME DISCRETION.
SO GOING BACK TO YOUR POINT AS A LAWYER, YES.
YOU, YOU WANT, IT SHOULD BE MORE CLARITY.
SO I THINK THE CHALLENGE FOR US, HOW DO WE DO THAT? YEAH.
WALTER, ON THAT POINT, IF I COULD JUST JUMP ON THAT.
UM, THE OPPOSITE OF THIS IS TO SAY YOU CANNOT HAVE TWO ADUS WITHIN 250 FEET OR 300 FEET OR 500 FEET.
SO THIS WAS A MECHANISM TO, I HEAR YOU, THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE THAT NUMERICAL LIKE THAT YOU CAN JUST CUT AND DRY, GRAB ONTO.
BUT THIS WAS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT TYPE OF CONCEPT.
AND WITH A PUBLIC HEARING, THERE WOULD BE A PUBLIC HEARING IF AN ADU IS PROPOSED, AND THE BOARD WOULD HEAR, UM, FROM RESIDENTS.
AND IF A RESIDENT CAME OUT AND SAID, UM, I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW THERE'S, THERE'S TWO ADUS ON THIS BLOCK AND, AND OFF STREET PARKING'S AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GONNA FACTOR IN YOUR DECISION.
I THINK, I THINK THE 250 FEET OR ONE 50, WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, IT WORKS IF THERE'S AN EXCEPTION.
I MEAN, YOU CAN'T, HOW DO YOU JUST DECIDE AN EXCEPTION? I'M CONFUSED.
HOW DO YOU DECIDE EXCEPTION, LET HIM FINISH.
I MEAN, THE NOTION WOULD BE THAT THERE MAY BE A NEGATIVE IMPACT IF IT'S, YOU KNOW, WITHIN 150 FEET.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ANY DIFFERENT THAN THIS.
JUST SOMEHOW IT STRUCK ME AS DIFFERENT.
YEAH, BECAUSE, BECAUSE JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THE TYPE OF, UM, THINGS WE WERE BALANCING IN PREPARATION.
WE HAD THIS, WE HAD THE SAME CONVERSATION, DISCUSSION FOR THE, YOU KNOW, ROUND AROUND, LET'S, LET'S DO IT AGAIN.
BUT WE, WE TOSSED, WE WENT BACK AND FORTH AND BACK.
[02:45:01]
POINT.BUT THIS IS THE BEST THING TO COME UP WITH.
CAN I ASK AMANDA QUESTION THOUGH? HOW DIFFERENT IS THAT THAN WHAT THE ZONING BOARD DEALS WITH EVERY DAY? I MEAN, YOU HAVE DISCRETION TO CONSIDER THINGS.
SO I MEAN, I MEAN, HAVING FACTORS IS BEST.
SO FLUSHING OUT SOME CRITERIA WOULD BE MUCH BETTER.
WHICH I THINK WOULD SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IS THIS IS A TYPE TWO ACTION.
SO THERE'S NO SEEKER INVOLVED.
AND IF I MAY DIFFERE, BUT WE COULD PUT IN SECRET CRITERIA DIFFERENCE.
I MEAN, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD COME AND ALL SAY WE ALL THIS YEAR WANNA PUT POOLS IN OUR BACKYARD ALL IN THE SAME BLOCK.
RIGHT? THIS HAS THE POTENTIAL FOR THAT.
RIGHT? BUT THE OTHER PART OF IT IS, THIS IS ALSO, AS WE SAID, AN ECONOMIC THING MAYBE FOR FOLKS.
SO IF FIVE PEOPLE ON THE SAME BLOCK COME AND SAY WE ALL WANT ADUS, WHO DECIDES? AND, AND NO ONE ELSE COMES AND COMPLAINS, RIGHT? SO IF A PERSON COMES TO YOU, FOUR PEOPLE CAME, YOU APPROVED ALL OF THEM.
THE FIFTH PERSON COMES, THEY'VE DONE EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING MATCHES.
THEY, EVERYTHING'S, THEY GOT THE PLAN, EVERYTHING WILL WORK.
BUT THEN YOU SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE'S FOUR OTHER PEOPLE ON THAT BLOCK.
BUT THEN WHY? THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE THE CRITERIA COMES IN.
SO IS THERE AN IMPACT TO TRAFFIC? IS THERE AN IMPACT TO, UM, NO, BUT WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE CRITERIA AS WE DON'T WANT IT ALL IN ONE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT WOULDN'T THE MARKET DECIDE WHERE IT GOES TO A CERTAIN EXTENT? HOW IS IT ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE TRY TO DO IN SEPARATION? LIKE WITH QSRS FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE TODAY, QS TAKE A, TAKE A LOOK AT SERVICE.
TAKE A LOOK AT, AT, AT TODAY WE, WE, WE APPROVED, LET'S SAY WE APPROVED CHICK-FIL-A.
RIGHT? DOES THAT IMPACT IMPACT POTENTIALLY WHAT GOES ACROSS THE STREET? IT MIGHT.
THERE'S A 2000 FOOT LINEAR SEPARATION RULE.
IT WAS ALSO THE SAME THING FOR GAS STATIONS ALL AT THE TIME.
WE HAD THAT ISSUE ON NINE A RECENTLY.
AND IMAGINE YOU HAD FIVE OF THESE AND THEY WERE ON MY STREET AT DEAD END STREET.
SO I THINK MY QUESTION IS, HOW, HOW DO YOU DECIDE, AND YOU'RE SAYING YOU DECIDE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
I HAVE TO, THE OTHER PART OF THE THAT OF THIS THAT I DID NOT UNDERSTAND WAS SORT A REAL ESTATE THING WHERE YOU'RE SAYING IF I SELL, OR THE PERSON WHO HAS AN A DU SELLS THEIR HOME, THEY HAVE 90 DAYS NOW THE NEW OWNER HAS 90 DAYS.
WHAT IF THE NEW OWNER SAYS, YEAH, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T WANT 90 DAYS TO DO WHAT THEY THEY HAVE 90 DAYS.
SO THE, THE THE TO RE-REGISTER PERMIT GOES WITH THE HOUSE, NOT WITH THE, NOT WITH THE PERSON WHO APPLIES.
THEY JUST HAVE TO RE-REGISTER WITH THE, THEY HAVE TO RE-REGISTER WITH THE, BUT THEY SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T WANT AN A DU.
I'M NOT GONNA BE, BUT THERE'S A NOTICE PER LEASE.
BUT THERE'S, MAY I FINISH? THERE'S A TENANT IN THERE.
THE TENANT HAS EIGHT MONTHS LEFT.
DOES THAT MEAN THAT TENANT IS LIVING THERE ILLEGALLY? NO.
LIKE HOW DOES REAL ESTATE, HOW DOES THE REAL ESTATE, BECAUSE THE LAW ACTUALLY WE TOOK THAT INTO ACCOUNT.
THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THERE LEGALLY.
UH, EVEN IF THE OWNER DOESN'T WANT TO CONTINUE THE A DU, THEY, THEY GET, AND THAT WAS WHAT WAS, IT'S NOT VAGUE.
IT'S VERY PARTICULAR WHAT THE TIME IS.
I DID, I DID, DID READ WHICH SECTION IS IT? DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT 13? YEAH.
WE, WE DEFINITELY ADDRESSED THAT.
SO IT, I DIDN'T SAY YOU DIDN'T ADDRESS IT.
THAT'S HOW I HAVE THE QUESTION, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF SALE, DOES THE, THE NEW OWNER, SO LEGALLY THE NEW OWNER HAS TO TAKE THAT TENANT YES.
UNTIL THE END, THE LEASE TO THE LEASES.
ANY PLACE BY LAW, IF THEY HAVE A LEASE ON THAT PROPERTY, THE LEASE GOES WITH THE PROPERTY.
JUST SAYS THE TENANT OF THE A DU SHALL BE PERMITTED TO REMAIN UNTIL THE END OF THE CURRENT LEASE.
IF THE OWNER DOES NOT APPLY FOR A TRANSFERRED THE SPECIAL PROPERTY.
BUT AT LEAST THEY COULD STAY TILL THE END OF THE LEASE.
SO, SO IF THE, BUT IF SO, THE OWNER DECIDES HE WANTS THE A DU, BUT HE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
DID, SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT IT WOULD BE LEGAL.
THAT'S MY, THAT WAS MY ONLY QUESTION.
IT IS ACTUALLY LEGAL FOR THEM TO STAY THERE, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS NO LONGER A LEGAL A DU.
IT'S KIND OF LIKE AN AMORTIZATION OF THE USE.
ANYTHING ELSE? MICHAEL, YOU HAVE SOME OTHER QUESTIONS? I THINK THAT, THAT, THAT PLEASE.
WHAT DO WE CONTINUE? ALRIGHT, LET'S, LET'S TALK ABOUT, ABOUT NEXT STEPS THEN.
WE OBVIOUSLY NEED TO CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION, BUT I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO GET PUBLIC INPUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE IF YOU GUYS ARE UP FOR THAT.
WHAT I, I WOULD SUGGEST IS, LET'S DO THE PUBLIC INPUT BEFORE WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS DISCUSSION RIGHT.
ON THE SAME, GET IT OUT OF THE WAY SO WE HAVE THAT FEEDBACK AND THEN CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION RIGHT AFTER THAT.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS I'M TRYING TO DO MORE, WE DID IT WITH CHICK-FIL-A I THINK IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE.
I WANT TO GET PUBLIC INPUT EARLIER THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST.
[02:50:01]
YOU HEAR FROM THEM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES, SO YOU HAVE TO EVALUATE IT, BUT SOMETIMES IT'S STUFF THAT WE WOULD NEVER, EVER HAVE THOUGHT OF.SO IT GIVES THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
SO CAN YOU GET IT, MAKE SURE THAT IT GETS NOTICED OR, YEAH, OF COURSE.
ONE THING I WOULD ALSO SAY IS WE CAN PROVIDE A BULLET OR TWO RESPONSE TO EACH OF THESE IN ADVANCE OF THE MEETING.
SO YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN START TAKING, THINKING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
BY THE WAY, IF YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS, HOW DO YOU GET NOTICE FROM THE PUBLIC OF THIS? YEAH, WE LOGISTIC, SO WE'RE GOING TO, WE, WE, WE'LL, WE'LL WE WILL EMPLOY A VARIETY OF, OF, OF MECHANISMS. WE'RE GONNA, UM, REACH OUT TO OUR CIVIC ASSOCIATION LIST WHO THEN HAVE THEIR OWN E-BLAST MECHANISMS. UM, WE'LL SEND AN E-BLAST TO SUPERVISOR FINER WHO HIS LIST IS ROBUST.
IT MIGHT BE LIKE 3000 STRONG BY NOW.
UM, WE'LL POST IT ON THE WEBSITE.
UM, SO I THINK, AND IT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA, WHICH PEOPLE LOOK ON THE AGENDA.
I THINK AMONGST THOSE THINGS, WE REALLY DO WANT TO REACH OUT AND HAVE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT.
'CAUSE THIS, WHEN YOU FIRST HEAR THIS, SAY, OOH, YOU KNOW, I WAS THAT WAY.
I WAS LIKE, OH, I NEVER WANT TO SEE ONE OF THESE THINGS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD THIS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, SEND 'EM TO US.
AND WE'LL GET THEM, WE'LL GET RESPONSES OUT THIS
IT'S, IT'S, UH, AND BEFORE WE GO, I SENT OUT A SNIPPET OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO ALL OF THE BOARD MEMBERS, VERY SPECIFICALLY THE HOUSING GOALS, OBJECTIVES AND POLICIES.
AS WELL AS THE DEMOGRAPHIC AND HOUSING.
I, I'D, I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO REVIEW THAT.
MY OBSERVATION REALLY QUICKLY IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF POLICIES THAT EXPLORE CREATION OF, UH, HOUSING FOR ADULTS, BUT IT ONLY CREATES IT UNDER, UH, SENIOR HOUSING TYPE OF CRITERIA.
IT DOESN'T ALLOW THE ACTUAL RESIDENTS TO BE ABLE TO EMPOWER THEMSELVES AND CREATE THEIR OWN LIVING ENVIRONMENT.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF ALLOWANCES FOR THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING IS ACTUALLY THE END.
THE OTHER THING THING, THE ONE QUESTION THAT COMES UP THERE, THERE IS A CONFLICT, AND GARRETT AND I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THIS LAST FEW DAYS.
UH, THERE IS A CONFLICT IN, IN, IN THE CONFLICT.
UH, WHICH IS THE FACT THAT IT DOES SAY VERY SPECIFICALLY, THOU SHALT NOT INCREASE DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY HOMES IN SINGLE FAMILY ZONE.
WELL, THE GOOD NEWS IS WE'RE NOT INCREASING DENSITY IN TERMS OF BUILDING DENSITY VERSUS WHAT'S IN THE CURRENT CODE.
THE ANSWER TO THE SECOND ONE IS, IS THE MINI INCREASE.
THAT'S THE ANSWER TO THE SECOND ONE AND RELATIVE TO THE OTHER PARTS OF, OF THE DOCUMENT IN COMBINATION WITH THE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE CODE THAT TALK ABOUT PROVIDING A BROAD SPECTRUM OF HOUSING.
HEY GUYS, I WANNA THANK ALL OF YOU.
I THOUGHT TONIGHT WE CAN MAKE MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS TONIGHT.
THAT WAS TOUGH WORKING THROUGH THE, DON'T PUT PEANUT BUTTER IN FOR A SECOND THROUGH, THROUGH THAT FIRST PROJECT.
SO I JUST WANTED TO THANK, I JUST WANTED TO THANK EVERYBODY.