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[ TOWN OF GREENBURGH ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS AGENDA THURSDAY, January 18, 2024 – 7:00 P.M. ]
AFTERNOON, OR GOOD AFTERNOON.IT'S BEEN THAT KIND OF DAY FOR ME.
UM, THIS IS JANUARY 18TH, 2024, AND THE MEETING OF THE ZONING BOARD APPEALS TO THE TOWN OF GREENBURG WILL COME TO ORDER.
WE WILL HAVE THE ROLL CALL FOR THE BOARD.
STARTING ROLL CALL EVE BUNTING SMITH.
AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE AGENDA, WE HAVE FIVE CASES ON TONIGHT.
HOWEVER, A CASE 2322, UM, WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT WE MIGHT ADJOURN THAT MATTER BECAUSE IT IS BASED UPON THE OUTCOME THAT IF THERE IS A GRANT OF 2321, THAT IT WOULD BECOME MOOT.
THEREFORE, WE WOULD TAKE A VOTE OF THAT.
PLEASE NOTE THAT THE, UM, ZONING BOARD HAS OUR NEXT REGULAR MEETING ON THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15TH AT 7:00 PM AS USUAL, IF WE CAN'T COMPLETE HEARING ANY OF THE CASES ON TONIGHT, IT'LL BE ADJOURNED TO ANOTHER MEETING TO HOPEFULLY BE COMPLETED AT THAT TIME.
ALSO, AS IS USUAL TO SAVE TIME, WE WILL HAVE, WE WILL WAIVE A READING OF THE PROPERTY LOCATION AND THE RELIEF SOUGHT FOR EACH CASE.
HOWEVER, THE REPORTER WILL INSERT THE INFORMATION IN THE RECORD.
THIS INFORMATION ALSO APPEARS ON THE AGENDA FOR TONIGHT'S MEETING.
AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING OF TONIGHT'S CASES, THE BOARD WILL MEET IN THIS ROOM TO DISCUSS THE CASES WE HAVE HEARD TONIGHT.
EVERYONE HERE IS WELCOME TO LISTEN TO OUR DELIBERATIONS AT THAT TIME, BUT THE PUBLIC WILL NOT BE PERMITTED TO SPEAK OR PARTICIPATE AFTER OUR DELIBERATIONS.
WE COME BACK TO THIS, TO OUR SEATS TO ANNOUNCE TO THE BOARD DECISION ON THE FORMAL RECORD.
AND IT IS FOR, FOR IT TO BE BROADCAST TO THE COMMUNITY.
IF YOU'RE PRESENT AND GOING TO SPEAK TONIGHT, YOU MUST COME UP TO THE MICROPHONE AND CLEARLY STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS OR PROFESSIONAL AFFILIATION.
IF YOU'RE NOT A NAMED APPLICANT, PLEASE SPELL YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD.
WE HAVE HEARD TESTIMONY ON SOME OF THESE CASES AT PRIOR MEETINGS.
ALL PRIOR TESTIMONY IS ALREADY IN THE RECORD AND SHOULD NOT BE REPEATED.
THE FIRST CASE TO BE HEARD TONIGHT IS CASE 2321.
HOWEVER, PRIOR TO DOING THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT, UM, WE WOULD ADJOURNED CASE 2322.
ALL IN FAVOR? WAS THAT PENDING THE OUTCOME OF PENDING THE OUTCOME? YES.
SO WE GET NOW TO 2321 FAILED INDUSTRIES INCORPORATED.
GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, DAVID STEINMETZ FROM THE LAW FIRM OF ZAIN AND STEINMETZ.
PLEASED TO BE HERE THIS EVENING REPRESENTING FAIL INDUSTRIES.
UM, I AM JOINED THIS EVENING, UH, FROM THA, UH, GLENN QUIANA, JEFF MANGANELLO, JESSE LOZADO FROM OUR, UH, DEVELOPMENT TEAM, MY COLLEAGUE BRIAN AUGH, WHO HAS APPEARED BEFORE YOU IN THE PAST.
MY, UH, CO-COUNSEL DARIUS ZEDA.
UM, ON SCREEN, UH, WITH US THIS EVENING IS PETER LOYOLA, UH, FROM CLA ENGINEERING, UH, MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
WE ALSO HAVE SEVERAL ADDITIONAL WITNESSES.
UM, FOR THIS EVENING, IRV GILL, UH, IS HERE AND I WILL PRESENT, UH, IN A MOMENT.
UH, IRV SPECIALIZES IN SITE OPERATIONS AND SAFETY.
HE'S SSHA, OSHA, UH, FIRST AID ALL CERTIFIED.
KEN IS A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER WHO WORKED FOR THE NEW YORK STATE, DEC AS A REGIONAL MATERIALS MANAGEMENT ENGINEER FOR 35, UH, PLUS YEARS.
UM, HE'S HERE TO ADDRESS, UH, SOME SPECIFIC PART 360 ISSUES DIRECTLY IN RESPONSE TO THE CONDITIONS AND INFORMATION THAT
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WAS PRESENTED, UH, MOST RECENTLY BY THE TOWN AND ALSO, UM, MAKING HER RETURN.JENNIFER AND LUCCI FROM PAUSES CROSS, UH, IS HERE AS WELL.
I'M GONNA TRY TO BE AS EFFICIENT AS POSSIBLE, BUT WE HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT TO COVER.
WE WERE LAST HERE ON DECEMBER 14TH.
WE HAD SUBMITTED TO YOU AT THAT TIME A DRAFT OF A PROPOSED PERMIT FOR THIS MATTER.
I HAD SUBMITTED THAT THE DAY BEFORE ON DECEMBER 13TH.
UM, ON DECEMBER 14TH, OUR PROJECT ENGINEER SUBMITTED A SERIES OF SITE PLAN ILLUSTRATIONS WITH NOTES, NOTES AND LEGENDS.
UM, AND WE HAD THAT BEFORE YOU ON THE 14TH.
I WANNA START TONIGHT, MADAM CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
UM, FIRST BY OFFERING AN APOLOGY.
I'M GONNA APOLOGIZE FOR TWO REASONS.
ONE, AT THE LAST MEETING, MY CLIENT ASKED THAT I PUSH FOR A VOTE, A VOTE, AND I DID WHAT I WAS ASKED.
UM, I THINK YOU ALL KNOW I PUSHED HARD TO TRY TO CONCLUDE THIS MATTER, UH, AND YOU WERE NOT READY AND YOU MADE THAT QUITE CLEAR TO ME AND OUR TEAM TONIGHT.
I'M ASKING, I'M APOLOGIZING A LITTLE IN ADVANCE.
UM, I'M ASKING FOR YOUR PATIENCE.
UM, WE HAVE A FAIR AMOUNT TO COVER.
AS I JUST SAID, I THINK YOU ALL KNOW WE GOT A RATHER VOLUMINOUS SUBMISSION, UM, FROM THE TOWN.
THEY FINALLY PUT A LOT OF INFORMATION OUT THERE AND WE'RE GONNA COVER THAT AND MAKE SURE IT'S ALL ADDRESSED AND CLEAR.
ALTHOUGH I SUBMITTED A DRAFT PERMIT ON DECEMBER 13TH, UM, I RECEIVED THE TOWN'S PROPOSED CONDITIONS 14 DAYS LATER ON DECEMBER 27TH.
SO DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU ALL TOLD ME WE WERE NOT GONNA VOTE ON THE 14TH AND WE WERE GONNA GIVE THE TOWN A CHANCE AND YOU ENCOURAGED THEM TO DO IT, TWO WEEKS AFTER THE MEETING, I GOT A SERIES OF CHANGES.
AND THOSE CONDITIONS CHANGED IRONICALLY AGAIN WHEN THE TOWN FILED ITS 150 PAGE SUBMISSION ON JANUARY 9TH, 2024.
SO I START TONIGHT BY TELLING YOU, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE TOWN, THIS HAS BEEN A MOVING TARGET FOR FAIL.
AND FOR OUR PROFESSIONAL TEAM, WE NEED YOU TO UNDERSTAND ONE OF THE REASONS I HAVE A FULL PRESENTATION TONIGHT IS 'CAUSE THE TOWN HAS CHANGED ITS POSITION IN THIS MATTER.
I'VE BEEN IN FRONT OF YOU SINCE JULY.
THEY'VE CHANGED THEIR POSITION ON THE HOURS OF OPERATION, ON MIXED LOADS, ON ASPHALT, ON PILE HEIGHTS, ON TRUCK SCALES, TRUCK WASHES IN JANUARY.
THEY GAVE MY TEAM FOR THE FIRST TIME A TESTING REPORT THAT THEY RECEIVED BACK IN NOVEMBER.
WE ADDRESSED IT IN OUR SUBMISSION.
I'M HAPPY TO ADDRESS IT TONIGHT.
BUT THE FACT THAT I GOT SOMETHING IN JANUARY THAT THEY FILE STAMPED IN IN NOVEMBER, THEY ASSESSED FAIL.
THEY ASSESSED FAIL $120,000 IN MONITORING FEES SINCE THE COMMENCEMENT OF THIS MATTER.
NOT ONE VIOLATION HAS BEEN ISSUED AS A RESULT OF THE PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING FEES THEY PAID OUT AND WANT MY CLIENT TO REIMBURSE THEM FOR TO THE MONITORS.
MADAM CHAIR, I MEAN, NO DISRESPECT TO THE TOWN OFFICIALS.
IN FACT, IN FACT, I THINK YOU ALL KNOW FOLKS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROOM.
I DEAL WITH THEM ON A MULTITUDE OF MATTERS AND I'M GONNA BE DEALING WITH THEM ON A MULTITUDE OF MATTERS GOING FORWARD.
BUT ON THIS ONE, I'M GONNA TELL YOU, I BELIEVE MY FRIENDS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH THIS.
THEY'RE STRUGGLING WITH THIS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE EXPERTISE IN WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH TONIGHT.
THEY'RE ASKING YOU TO DEAL WITH SOME THINGS THAT YOU HAVE NO PARTICULAR EXPERTISE AND YOU'VE NEVER SEEN MADAM CHAIR, YOU'VE BEEN ON THIS BOARD, I KNOW FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
YOU HAVE NEVER HAD AN APPLICATION QUITE LIKE THIS ONE.
SO TONIGHT, WHAT I'M GOING TO TRY TO DO ON BEHALF OF, ON BEHALF OF MR. ANA FAIL INDUSTRIES AND MY ENTIRE TEAM IS I'M GOING TO TRY TO ASSIST YOU AS BEST I CAN PROFESSIONALLY AND HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS AND HOW TO GET TO THE END OF THIS.
AS I SAID LAST MONTH, IT'S LOTS OF FUN COMING HERE, BUT NOT THAT MUCH FUN THAT I WANT TO KEEP COMING HERE MONTH AFTER MONTH.
IN ORDER TO DO THIS, I NEED TO TAKE A GIANT STEP BACK TO SET THE STAGE FOR ALL OF US.
I NEED TO DO A LITTLE HISTORY.
I NEED TO GO BACK 26 YEARS BECAUSE THE TOWN IS CALLED FAILS CREDIBILITY, THEIR HONESTY, THEIR BUSINESS PRACTICES INTO QUESTION IN THIS MATTER.
THIS IS A BUSINESS THAT HAS BEEN IN THIS TOWN FOR OVER TWO DECADES.
MY CLIENT FEELS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN MISCHARACTERIZED BEFORE YOUR BOARD FOR RUNNING A SUCCESSFUL VITAL RECYCLING FACILITY.
THEY FEEL THAT THEY HAVE BEEN CALLED DISINGENUOUS, DISHONEST.
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DALE'S BEEN OPERATING ON THIS SITE SINCE THE 1990S AROUND 1997.THE INTERESTING THING IS, UM, IN 2001, AND I'LL GET TO A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY THAT I LEARNED RECENTLY.
APPARENTLY THERE WAS A NEED TO APPLY FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, WHICH YOUR BOARD ISSUED ON APRIL 18TH, 2002.
YOUR BOARD ISSUED A SPECIAL PERMIT QUOTE FOR A ROCK CRUSHING AND AGGREGATE RECLAMATION FACILITY TO PERMIT ROCK CRUSHING AND THE STORE, IT DOESN'T SAY STORAGE, IT SAYS THE STORE OF ROCK AND CONCRETE.
BUT I WANNA REMIND, I WANNA REMIND YOU WHAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR RECORD.
MY COLLEAGUE BRIAN DUG THROUGH THE RECORDS THAT THE TOWN MADE SURE WE WERE GIVEN A LARGE DUMP IN A DROPBOX.
MADAM CHAIR, MAYBE THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR TO YOU, MAYBE THIS SOUNDS FAMILIAR TO MS. GARRITY, WHO WAS ACTUALLY YOUR SECRETARY ON THE BOARD AT THAT TIME.
I FOUND A LETTER FROM DATED FEBRUARY 12TH, 2001 FROM THE GENTLEMAN WE ALL KNOW.
THE ESTEEMED BOB, UH, BOB WEINBERG FROM RMC.
BOB WEINBERG WAS INVOLVED AT THE FRONT END OF THIS WHOLE MATTER BECAUSE HIS CLIENT, HIS COMPANY OWNED THE PROPERTY.
BOB WRITES A LETTER, HE TALKS ABOUT THE EXCAVATION PERMIT THAT HE HAD FOR HIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR 18 YEARS.
I DIDN'T REALIZE, DESPITE ALL THIS, ALL THE CONVERSATIONS I'VE HAD WITH MY CLIENTS AND MY TEAM, NONE OF THEM MADE IT CLEAR TO ME THAT THE PROPERTY ACTUALLY HAD ALREADY BEEN EXCAVATED, EXCAVATED FOR 18 YEARS BEFORE 2001.
BOB WEINBERG TOLD YOU ALL THAT WHEN HE WROTE A LETTER TO THE ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS.
HE THEN SAID, QUOTE, THOSE PROCESSING OPERATIONS WERE ALWAYS SUPPLEMENTED BY OFFSITE MATERIAL DELIVERED BY TRUCKS FROM EXCAVATION AND HIGHWAY REBUILDING IN OUR AREA.
THIS OPERATION WAS WELL KNOWN TO THE TOWN.
THIS SHOULD SOUND FAMILIAR, WHICH ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS DELIVERED ITS OWN MATERIALS TO US FOR CRUSHING AND DISPOSITION.
SO ONE THING WE KNOW FOR SURE IS THE TOWN KNEW ABOUT IT.
THE TOWN KNEW THAT THERE HAD BEEN ACTIVITY GOING ON SINCE GOD KNOWS WHEN BACK IN THE EIGHTIES, THE TOWN HAD BEEN DELIVERING MATERIAL TO THIS SITE.
IT'S STILL DELIVERING MATERIAL TO THIS SITE.
WE ALL KNOW THAT IT'S PART OF THE FRUSTRATION IN THIS MATTER.
AT NO TIME IN THE PAST 20 YEARS HAS THIS NOT BEEN THE CASE, AND WE HAVE NEVER BEEN REQUIRED TO TAKE OUT A SPECIAL PERMIT.
BOB WEINBERG IS A, A POSTHUMOUS LEGEND, AT LEAST IN THE WORLD OF LAND USE, REAL ESTATE AND DEVELOPMENT IN MY WORLD.
SO ON 2000, 2001, A VERY ESTEEMED GENTLEMAN WAS FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THE TOWN SAID YOU NEED TO GET A SPECIAL PERMIT FOR THIS OPERATION.
SO WHAT HAPPENED? HE GOT A SPECIAL PERMIT.
INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, HE WASN'T THE ONLY PERSON INVOLVED.
RUTH ROTH FROM CUDI AND FADER WAS THE ATTORNEY FOR RMC.
RUTH SAID, AND THE TRANSCRIPT THAT THE TOWN PROVIDED TO ME SHOWS SHE SAID ON JANUARY 17TH, 2002.
SO HE WRITES HIS LETTER IN FEBRUARY OH ONE, HE SPENDS THE NEXT YEAR IN FRONT OF YOUR BOARD PROCESSING HIS SPECIAL PERMIT.
RUTH GETS UP IN A MEETING AND SAYS, THIS IS THE TYPE OF USE THAT IS A NECESSITY IN A COMMUNITY.
IT NOW ACCEPTS A LOT OF STONE AND ROCK FROM THE THROUGHWAY AUTHORITY.
PICTURE ROADS, ASPHALT FROM THE THROUGHWAY AUTHORITY, WHICH IS NOW BLASTING DOWN IN THE IRVINGTON AREA.
AND FOR THOSE OF US WHO APPEAR IN THE TOWN OF GREENBURG ON A FAIRLY REGULAR BASIS IN FRONT OF YOUR BOARD, THE TOWN BOARD AND THE PLANNING BOARD, THERE'S ANOTHER INSTITUTION IN THIS TOWN AND THAT'S ELLA PRIZER.
ELLA SHOWS UP AT THE MEETING ON MARCH 21ST, 2002, AND ELLA SAYS, AS YOU PROBABLY HAVE READ, THE DOT IS GOING TO DO MORE.
ACCORDING TO THE REPORT, THEY ACCEPTED THE ROCK AND CRUSHED IT FROM THE EXIT 5 2 87 INTERSECTION REPAIRS.
AND THE DOT IS GOING TO DO SOME MORE MAJOR REPAIRS.
I DO THAT SIMPLY TO MAKE ONE POINT ROCK STONE GRAVEL SOIL AND ASPHALT HAS BEEN COMING IN AND OUT OF THIS PROPERTY 20 YEARS, 30 YEARS.
ONCE THE, ONCE THE PERMIT WAS SECURED BY FAIL, THE APRIL OH TWO PERMIT, YOU ALL ISSUED, THIS BOARD ISSUED FAIL, APPLIED TO THE DEC.
JEFF MANGANELLO SITTING HERE IN ROW THREE, SUBMITTED FOR A PART 360 APPLICATION TO THE NEW YORK STATE DEC.
AND HE ACTUALLY INDICATED WHAT HE WAS DOING, NOT BY COBBLING TOGETHER HIS OWN WORDS.
HE CHECKED THE BOX, I REPEAT, HE CHECKED
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THE BOX ON THE PART 360 FORM AN OFFICIAL FORM DATED NOVEMBER 19TH, 2002, THAT PHIL WAS GOING TO OPERATE.FOLLOW MY WORDS, NOT JEFF'S WORDS, THEY'RE THE NEW YORK STATE GOVERNMENT'S WORDS GONNA BE OPERATING A QUOTE PROCESSING FACILITY RECEIVING ONLY RECOGNIZABLE UNCONTAMINATED, CONCRETE, ASPHALT PAVEMENT, BRICK, SOIL, OR ROCK.
UNDER SECTION 360 DASH 16 D AS IN DAVID, NO MAGIC TO THIS MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN 21 YEARS.
YEAH, THE OPERATION GREW INDEED, THE OPERATION MODERNIZED.
INDEED THE OPERATION BECAME MORE CRITICAL TO THE COUNTY, TO CON EDISON TO LOCAL CONTRACTORS, PROBABLY TO THE TOWN OF GREENBERG AND THE SURROUNDING VILLAGES, ET CETERA.
NEVER, NEVER IN 26 YEARS HAS ANYONE SOUGHT TO CLOSE DOWN THIS FACILITY.
NEVER HAS THE CREDIBILITY AND CAPABILITY OF FAIL.
ITS PROFESSIONALS AND ALL OF ITS EMPLOYEES BEEN QUESTIONED BY THE TOWN, BY THE COUNTY, BY THE DEC, BY OSHA.
SSHA NEVER HAS FAILED, BEEN CALLED DISINGENUOUS.
NOW IN ITS LATEST SUBMISSION, WHICH WE RECEIVED ON JANUARY 9TH, 2024, THE TOWN TRIES TO COBBLE TOGETHER SOME NEFARIOUS SCHEME THAT FAILED PERPETRATED FOR 26 YEARS.
THEY APPLIED AND, AND THIS IS WHAT THEY SAY IN THEIR MEMO, THEY APPLIED FOR ONE THING, THEY CAME BEFORE THE ZONING BOARD AND IT WAS CALLED A ROCK AGGREGATE AND RECLAMATION FACILITY.
AND THEN JEFF MANGANELLO GOES IN FRONT OF THE DEC SIX MONTHS LATER.
NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S GOT ASPHALT AND IT'S GOT SOIL AND DIRT AND BRICK.
HE CHECKED THE BOX ON THE STATE AUTHORIZED FORM TO DISCLOSE WHAT EVERYONE, INCLUDING RUTH ROTH, ELLA PRIZER, YOUR BOARD BOB WEINBERG, ALL KNEW WAS HAPPENING AT THIS FACILITY.
THE SITE OPERATES IN PLAIN DAYLIGHT.
THIS IS NOT HAPPENING INSIDE SOME BUILDING UNDER THE DARKNESS OF NIGHT.
IRONICALLY, I LEARNED A PUBLIC BIKE PATH THAT MY CLIENT PAID MONEY TO ALLOW THE PUBLIC TO SIT ON A BENCH RIGHT NEAR THE SITE.
SO IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING ON, MAYBE YOU DON'T FUND WESTCHESTER COUNTY TO PUT A PUT A A BENCH ON THE BIKE PATH.
EVERYONE KNEW IN 2001 THAT THIS SITE WOULD TAKE IN ROAD AND CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS.
I AM FRUSTRATED AND I WILL TRY TO PARK IT, NO PUN INTENDED, BECAUSE I HAVE SPENT MONTHS TRYING TO DEFEND THE NOTION OF MIXED LOADS AND ASPHALT COMING INTO THIS FACILITY AS IF IT'S SOME BAD THING.
I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO WASTE MY TIME, HIS MONEY, THEIR MONEY, YOUR TIME.
THE DEC DEFINES COMMERCIAL AGGREGATE AS FOLLOWS.
FOLLOW THE WORDS COMMERCIAL AGGREGATE UNDER THE NEW YORK STATE REGULATIONS, SAND GRAVEL, CRUSHED STONE OR SIMILAR ENGINEERED OR RECYCLED MATERIAL USED AS A MARKETABLE COMMODITY IN CONCRETE MANUFACTURING, ASPHALT MANUFACTURING, PRODUCTION OF CONCRETE PRODUCTS OR THE CONSTRUCTION OF FOUNDATIONS, BASES AND ROADS.
SIX N-Y-C-R-R SECTION THREE SIX OH 0.2 B 48.
THE DEC TELLS US THAT CERTAIN THINGS THAT SOME OF US MIGHT OTHERWISE CONSIDER TO BE WASTE WASTE PRODUCTS.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY REALLY GOOD THINGS.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY REFERRED TO UNDER STATE LAW AND REGULATORY SCHEME AS QUOTE, BENEFICIAL USES IF PROPERLY HANDLED AND RECYCLED.
IN FACT, THE STATE OF NEW YORK HAS TOLD ALL OF US BY PROMULGATING REGULATIONS THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE PREDETERMINED, PREDETERMINED AS A BENEFICIAL USE.
WE, THE STATE ARE GOING TO TELL YOU THE PUBLIC THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE REALLY COOL, REALLY GOOD.
WE'RE GONNA DETERMINE IN ADVANCE THEY'RE GOOD FOR SOCIETY.
SUCH AS QUOTE MATERIALS GENERATED OUTSIDE THE CITY OF NEW YORK WITH NO EVIDENCE OF HISTORICAL IMPACTS SUCH AS REPORTED SPILL EVENTS OR VISUAL OR OTHER INDICATIONS, ODORS OF CHEMICAL OR PHYSICAL CONTAMINATION.
RECYCLED AGGREGATE IF GENERATED FROM UNCONTAMINATED RECOGNIZABLE CONCRETE BRICK OR ROCK RECYCLED MATERIAL OR RESIDUE GENERATED FROM UNCONTAMINATED ASPHALT PAVEMENT AND ASPHALT MILLINGS.
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FROM SIX N-Y-C-R-R SECTION 3 6 0 POINT 12.SO THE DEC REGULATIONS THAT WE KNOW GOVERN OUR OPERATION AND WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT FOR MONTHS THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS FACILITY HAS A BUD, A BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION.
THEY'RE PROUD THEY HAVE A BUD.
THEY'RE RUNNING A RECYCLING OPERATION.
SO WE CAN ALL DRIVE AROUND IN THE COMMUNITY KNOWING THAT WE'RE USING RECYCLED MATERIALS TO BUILD OUR ROADS AND OUR FOUNDATIONS AND OUR FOOTINGS AND BACKFILL TRENCHES FOR CON ED, MAKING UNFOUNDED ASSERTIONS, FORCING MY CLIENT TO PAY OVER A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO MONITORS WHO HAVE NO EXPERTISE IN THESE MATTERS.
BUT THEY'RE REALLY GOOD AT SITTING AT THE END OF THE DRIVEWAY TRYING TO SELL THEIR PICKUP TRUCK AND WATCHING, WATCHING TRUCKS GOING BACK AND FORTH.
WE ALL SHOULDN'T BE PART OF THIS.
THIS IS A HIGHLY AND HEAVILY REGULATED INDUSTRY.
THEY HAVE A PART 360 REG PART 360 DEC REGISTRATION.
THEY HAVE A DEC APPROVED STORM WATER POLLUTION PREVENTION PLAN, A SW THEY HAVE A COUNTY AIR PERMIT.
THEY HAVE A WESTCHESTER SOLID SOLID WASTE COMMISSION LICENSE.
THEY ARE UNDERGO OSHA AND SSHA INSPECTIONS.
THEY HAVE AN INCREDIBLE SAFETY RECORD.
THEY HAVE NO, NO NOISE VIOLATIONS IN 26 YEARS.
THIS SITE IS LOCATED IN THE TOWN'S GENERAL INDUSTRIAL ZONING DISTRICT.
IT IS SURROUNDED AND I THINK YOU'VE ALL BEEN OUT THERE.
BUT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE RECORD, IT'S SURROUNDED BY A JUNKYARD, A METALS RECYCLING AND SOLID WASTE TRANSFER STATION, A LOVELY DOG POUND, A ROCKCLIFF, ENORMOUS WAREHOUSES, AND THE SAW THE RIVER PARKWAY.
THIS SITE SATISFIES THE REQUIREMENTS TO BE LOCATED IN A GI ZONING DISTRICT.
I AM GONNA TRY TO PRESENT WITNESSES NOW AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE, AND THOUGH SHE MAY NOT BE THE MOST IMPORTANT WITNESS, I KNOW SHE'S GONNA BE THE BEST WITNESS.
I WANT TO GET IN AND OUTTA HERE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
SHE WAS HERE BEFORE SHE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO COME BACK AGAIN.
AND THE ONLY REASON THAT FAIL AND I HAVE ASKED JENNIFER TO RETURN IS DESPITE HER TESTIMONY IN THE SMALL CONFERENCE ROOM IN SEPTEMBER, THE ACCESS TO PAUSE CROSSED THE FUNCTIONALITY, THE SAFETY OF GETTING TO PAW CROSS HAS BEEN CALLED INTO QUESTION REPEATEDLY BY THE TOWN IN THEIR PERMANENT CONDITIONS.
I WANT YOU TO HEAR FROM THE WOMAN WHO RUNS PAW CROSS AND DRIVES THAT ACCESS EVERY DAY.
IS SHE THREATENED BY THE PILES? IS SHE THREATENED BY THE EQUIPMENT? IS SHE CONCERNED ABOUT DEBRIS OR ANYTHING ON THE ROAD? I WANT THAT TO BE CLEAR BECAUSE WE'VE OFFERED A VERY SIMPLE CONDITION THAT WE HAVE FOR MONTHS.
WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THE ACCESS TO POST CROSS DOESN'T GET OBSTRUCTED BY ANYTHING.
I THINK THAT'S, I I I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR HER.
I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY GOOD ENOUGH FOR JENNIFER, BUT I'LL LET JENNIFER SPEAK VERY BRIEFLY.
DO YOU NEED ME TO SPELL MY NAME? JUST JENNIFER ANGEL LUCI, THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF POZ CROSS ANIMAL RESCUE.
IT'S BEEN A REQUEST AND IN VIEW OF THE FACT THAT IT'S BEEN DONE IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE AND NO REFLECTION ON THE WITNESS THAT ALL WITNESSES BE SWORN.
WE THINK THAT'S A TERRIFIC IDEA.
YOU WANNA DO IT
I SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
UM, SO I HAVE BEEN WITH P CROSS.
I STARTED PAUSE CROSS BACK IN 2015.
WE TOOK OVER THE PROPERTY IN 2016 AND PRIOR TO THAT I WAS AFFILIATED WITH THE FORMER ANIMAL RESCUE AND THAT WAS PENCE ALIVE WESTCHESTER.
SO I HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE I WAS 21 YEARS OLD.
AND GETTING ACCESS INTO THE ANIMAL RESCUE HAS NEVER BEEN AN ISSUE.
IT ABSOLUTELY NEVER HAS AND I DON'T SEE A TIME WHERE IT EVER WOULD BE.
AND BRINGING UP SAFETY, I THINK THAT WE WOULDN'T FEEL SAFE WITHOUT FAIL AS OUR NEIGHBORS, WE KNOW THAT THEY ALWAYS HAVE OUR BACK.
IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT WE WERE EVEN REMOTELY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, WE KNOW THAT IT WOULD JUST TAKE A TEXT MESSAGE OR A PHONE CALL
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TO GLEN OR TO JESSE.AND THE PROBLEM WOULD BE HANDLED IMMEDIATELY WHEN WE FELT UNSAFE ON PROPERTY BECAUSE OF PEOPLE HARASSING US.
THEY'RE ALWAYS THERE AS BACKUP FOR US.
AND AS YOU KNOW, WE HONORED THEM AT OUR SEPTEMBER EVENT.
I WON'T GET INTO THAT AGAIN BECAUSE WE DID GO OVER IT LAST TIME AND I WASN'T AT ALL SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT THEY WON ONE OF THE BEST PLACES TO WORK IN WESTCHESTER IN 9 1 4 INC.
AND THAT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE SO GOOD TO THEIR EMPLOYEES.
AND I THINK TO MAKE THIS VERY QUICK, I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE, IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT GREENBERG IS PROUD TO HAVE A RECYCLING CENTER, AN ANIMAL RESCUE, AND THE SCRAP YARD ALL IN A SMALL AREA.
AND IT IS THE SOCIAL IMPACT OF THAT, I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT GREENBERG SHOULD BE PROUD OF.
JENNIFER, I HAVE ONE QUESTION FOR YOU.
UM, NEXT TO UH, THE ACCESS WAY, THERE ARE PILES OF GRAVEL, ITEM FOUR STONE.
THERE ARE SOMETIMES PIECES OF EQUIPMENT PARKED THERE.
AT ANY TIME HAS ANY OF THE MATERIAL, THE EQUIPMENT, OR ANY OF THEIR OPERATION EITHER CAUSED YOU CONCERN, STRESS, HARM, INJURY, OR OBSTRUCTED YOUR ACCESS? NO, NOT AT ALL.
IN FACT, THEY FILL ALL OF OUR PLAY ARTS FOR OUR DOGS.
SO WITHOUT THEM, THE PETS OF PAWS CROSS WOULD GREATLY SUFFER AND WE WOULD SUFFER AS WELL.
WE CAN'T IMAGINE HAVING ANY OTHER NEIGHBORS AND WE REALLY DON'T WANT ANY OTHER NEIGHBORS.
THEY DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE DOGS BARKING.
WE MAKE CERTAINLY MAKE A LOT MORE NOISE THAN THEM.
SO WE ARE VERY GRATEFUL TO THEM AND WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT THEM.
AND I WILL COME HERE AND SPEAK AS MANY TIMES AS I HAVE TO TO HOPEFULLY GET THEM TO STAY AS OUR NEIGHBORS.
I WAS TRYING TO SEE IF THERE WERE, THERE'S GONNA BE A CROSS, BUT I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY I KNOW OF YOU ALL, AND I KNOW MANY SHELTERS, HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT THEIR ANIMALS, BUT BEING THAT THEY'RE SO CLOSE TO THE GROUND, UM, YOU KNOW, WITH ANY SEDIMENT OR ANYTHING THAT MAY BE ON THE GROUND, HAS THERE EVER BEEN A FEAR OF CONTAMINANT TOWARDS THE ANIMALS? 'CAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY'D BE IN CLOSER PROXIMITY TO THE TRAILWAY, THE SPILLWAYS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND I KNOW YOU ALL WALK THE DOGS.
SO I KNOW YOU GUYS WALK THE DOGS PRETTY MUCH BETWEEN THERE AND, UM, ONE 19 YOUR THOUGHTS IN TERMS OF THE CLEANLINESS OF THE AREA OR AS IT WOULD RELATE TO THE ANIMALS IN PARTICULAR? NOT THE HUMANS.
BUT TO THE ANIMALS IN PARTICULAR.
WELL, I THINK THAT, UM, US, WE GO TO THEM FOR OUR MATERIAL, FOR OUR PLAY YARDS.
SO I THINK THAT CHOSE ENOUGH THAT WE BELIEVE IT'S SO SAFE THAT WE HAVE ALL OF OUR FILL YARDS, PLAY, FILL, PLAY YARDS FILLED WITH THEIR MATERIAL.
SO IT WAS NEVER A QUESTION OF SAFETY AND THAT WAS OUR FIRST CHOICE.
AND THEY, THEY FILLED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF OUR PLAY YARDS.
AND THEN THEY, WE HAVE THEM REFILL THEM EVERY YEAR AND THEY DO THAT AT NO COST TO US.
WE HAVE NO ISSUES, WE'VE NEVER HAD ANY ISSUES AND OUR DOGS PLAY ON THEIR MATERIAL EVERY SINGLE DAY.
YEAH, MADAM CHAIR, MY NEXT WITNESS WILL BE IRVIN GILL IRVIN IS FROM CATAMOUNT CONSULTING.
HE'S GOT A BACKGROUND IN IRV YOU CAN START TO COME UP.
HE'S GOT A BACKGROUND IN MINING AND ROCK AGGREGATE RECYCLING FACILITIES.
HE'S GOT 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN MINING AND ROCK PROCESSING.
HE'S HERE TONIGHT, FOLKS, TO ADDRESS THE SAFETY OF THE SITE.
ITS PILE SIZES OF PROCESSED AND UNPROCESSED MATERIALS, THE LOCATION OF THOSE PILES AND THE EQUIPMENT AND THE FACT THAT SOME OF THAT EQUIPMENT IS BENCHED ON TOP OF PILES.
HE'LL ALSO BRIEFLY ADDRESS WHAT JENNIFER JUST DID.
'CAUSE WE ALSO ASKED IRV TO SPECIFICALLY COME OUT AND LOOK AT THE ACCESS WAY AND GIVE US HIS OPINION ABOUT THE PROXIMITY OF PILES AND EQUIPMENT TO THE ACCESS WAY.
UM, IRV, I'D ASK YOU TO COME UP AND, UH, ADDRESS THE TOPICS OF PILES PILE SIZE AND IN GENERAL SAFETY OF THE SITE.
ARE WE SWEARING HIM IN TOO? YES, WE SHOULD.
IF YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND PLEASE.
DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? SO HELP ME GOD.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO CORRECT, UH, ACTUALLY I'M FINISHING MY 50TH YEAR IN THE MINING INDUSTRY.
GLEN TOLD ME TO MAKE YOU YOUNGER.
UM, I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN MINING IN, IN THE MINING ACTIVELY FOR, UH, 44 YEARS.
I'VE BEEN SIX YEARS AS A CONSULTANT.
TALK ABOUT THE SITE, YOUR VISITS TO THE SITE IN THE PARK.
I'VE BEEN VISITING, UH, ACTUALLY SALE FOR ABOUT SIX YEARS.
UM, I HAVE VISITED THE ELM ALFRED SITE OFF AND ON FOR SIX YEARS.
THE LAST TWO YEARS I BELIEVE I COME EVERY MONTH TO KEEP AN EYE ON IT.
I AM SHARING OF MY EXPERTISE THAT I HAVE WITH 'EM, BOTH IN PRODUCTION, UH, SAFETY ISSUES, PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE ISSUES, LAYOUT OF THE LAND, UM, WHAT THE PRODUCT LOOKS LIKE TO ME.
[00:30:01]
AND I HAVE NOT HAD AN ISSUE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM IN THE SEVERAL YEARS.ANY SMALL THINGS THAT EVER DO COME UP AS, AS PRETTY MUCH LIKE JENNIFER JUST SAID, A SMALL TEXT TO JESSE AND EVERYTHING IS TAKEN CARE OF.
I'VE NEVER REALLY SEEN A SERIOUS ISSUE WITH ANYTHING, UH, ADDRESSING THE STOCKPILES.
YOU HAVE A STOCKPILE, IT'S BEING FED BY A CONVEYOR BELT.
GENERALLY THAT MEANS BY ITS VERY NATURE THE MATERIAL FALLING DOWN THERE FALLS DOWN TO ITS NATURAL STAB, UH, ANGLE OF STABILITY.
THAT'S CALLED ANGLE OF REPOSE THAT MAKES IT STABLE.
THERE IS NO PEOPLE WORKING AROUND THERE.
THE MACHINERY WORKS AROUND THERE.
THE MACHINES MAINTAIN THE PILES AS IT WERE, AS THEY DIG IN, THEY REACH UP AND DOWN, THEY KNOCK IT DOWN.
I CAN'T SEE A PARTICULAR PROBLEM WITH THEM.
UM, THE LAYOUT OF THE LAND, THEY HAVE FIVE ACRES, I BELIEVE IT'S FIVE ACRES UNDER PERMIT.
THEY HAVE THE MACHINERY, THEY HAVE THE ROADWAYS, WHICH MUST BE MAINTAINED OPEN ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PROPERTY TO ALLOW ACCESS IN AND OUT FOR THE MACHINES AND FOR THE CUSTOMERS.
THERE IS A NATURAL LIMIT TO HOW MUCH PRODUCT'S GONNA BE ON THERE.
THERE'S A NATURAL LIMIT TO HOW HIGH IT IS BY THE VERY FOOTPRINT OF THE PILE.
SO IRV NOW, SO A COUPLE OF QUICK QUESTIONS.
ARE THERE SELF LIMITING FACTORS THAT GOVERN PILE HEIGHT AND PILE SIZE? YEAH.
I MEAN IN, IN THE WORD THE GREEK WORD IS GEO GEOMETRY, RIGHT? MEASURING OF THE LAND.
UM, ALL PRODUCTS, EVERY MATERIAL ON EARTH HAS A ANGLE OF REPOSE.
AN ANGLE OF REPOSE IS NOT A SET NUMBER, IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
UH, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, WE JUST HAD SOME REALLY, I WAS GONNA SAY CRAPPY, BUT I CAN'T SAY THAT BAD WEATHER, UM, LATELY, RIGHT? UH, AND THE ROADS UP HERE, SAWMILL PARKWAY, 55 MILES AN HOUR.
I'M SURE THERE WERE TIMES WHEN WE CAN'T GO 55 MILES AN HOUR, RIGHT? UH, IN THAT CASE, THE SPEED LIMIT IS, IS, IS A CONCEPT.
SO WE HAVE THE SAME THING WITH GRA, WITH ANGLE OF REPOSE, ANGLE OF REPOSE CHANGES WITH THE NATURE OF THE PRODUCT, WITH HOW IT'S MADE, WITH, UM, WHAT OTHER INCLUSIONS ARE INSIDE OF IT? LIKE IS THE PRODUCT BIGGER, SMALLER, THERE'S BLENDS SOMETIMES VERSUS EVERYTHING BEING SAY MARBLE, LIKE WHERE IT ALL IS ABOUT THE SAME.
UH, I'LL GIVE YOU A GREAT EXAMPLE.
UH, WE'VE ALL BEEN TO THE JERSEY SHORE, RIGHT? WE'VE ALL BEEN DOWN THERE HANGING OUT OR NO, OH MAN, IT'S ON SHORE SOMEWHERE.
YOU'VE BEEN TO THE SHORE SOMEWHERE YOU NEED TO GO TO.
YOU'VE BEEN TO THE SHORE SOMEWHERE AND I'M SURE AT SOME POINT YOU WERE A KID AND YOU PLAYED WITH THE SAND THAT WAS WAY BACK AWAY FROM THE WATER.
YOU TAKE A BUCKET FULL OF IT AND YOU GO TO DUMP IT DOWN TO MAKE A PILE.
WHEN YOU LIFT THE BUCKET UP, IT JUST GOES BECAUSE IT'S DRY AND SANDY, THE ANGLE OF REPOSE FOR DRY SAND IS ABOUT LIKE THAT, ABOUT 10 DEGREES.
YOU GO DOWN INTO THE WATER AND GET THAT SAME BUCKET OF WET SAND, SHAKE IT OUT A LITTLE BIT AND GO, AND THERE YOU HAVE A SAND CASTLE, RIGHT? SO MOISTURE CONTENT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT.
IRV, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAVE YOU SEEN OTHER ROCK PROCESSING FACILITIES WITH REGULATED ANGLES OF REPOSE WHERE YOU'RE COMING IN SAYING, GUYS, YOU'RE NOT 35 DEGREES, YOU NEED TO BE 45 DEGREES OR VICE VERSA? NO, NOBODY EITHER.
MSHA AND OSHA ARE THE TWO REGULATORY AGENCIES AND THAT HAVE NO REGULATIONS ON STANDARDS ON THAT.
WHAT THEY HAVE IS HOW TO SAFELY OPERATE AROUND, UH, STOCKPILES.
ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS THAT HAS COME INTO PLAY IN THIS PROCEEDING IS WHETHER OR NOT FAIL SHOULD HAVE EQUIPMENT BENCHED UP ON TOP OF THE MAIN PILE ON THE FRONT, RIGHT? WITH THE LARGE PIECES OF, OF MATERIAL THAT COME IN? WELL, I, I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT DONE EXACTLY AS YOU'RE SAYING.
I HAVEN'T SEEN THE, THE BIG EXCAVATOR SITTING UP ON TOP OF THE MAIN PILE.
HE HAS A SMALL PAD THAT GIVES HIM THE RIGHT HEIGHT TO GRAB THE, UH, SAFELY GRAB A BUCKET MATERIAL AND THEN BE ABLE TO SAFELY LOWER IT INTO THE FEEDER OF THIS ROCK, BIG ROCK CRUSHING MACHINE.
AND YOU CAN SEE INSIDE, SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.
IF YOU GO TO ANY CONSTRUCTION SITE, YOU'LL ALWAYS SEE AN EXCAVATOR MAKE A PAD OF MATERIAL AND MAKE A RAMP WHERE HE GOES UP TO THE TOP.
THE MATERIAL IN THIS CASE THAT THEY'RE USING IS PERFECT FOR THIS.
IT HAS CHUNKS OF ROCK AND CONCRETE AND HARD, LIKE LET'S LIKE THE REINFORCING BAR IN, IN THE CONCRETE AND THEN FINER MATERIAL THAT PACKS IN AROUND IT TAKES UP THE AIRSPACE AS THIS MACHINE WEIGHS 20 TONS GOES, CLIMBS
[00:35:01]
UP AND DOWN IT, IT SETTLES DOWN AND COMPRESSES IT AND MAKES A VERY FIRM PAD.AT ANY TIME THAT YOU VISITED THE SITE AND THE SIX YEARS YOU'VE BEEN GOING, HAVE YOU SEEN AN UNSAFE CONDITION CONCERNING THE EQUIPMENT? NO.
AT ANY TIME HAVE YOU SEEN AN UNSAFE CONDITION CONCERNING THE PILES? NO.
HAVE YOU SEEN AN UNSAFE CONDITION CONCERNING THE LOCATION OF THE PILES? NO.
EVEN THE PILES THAT ARE NEAR JENNIFER'S ACCESS WAY TO THE DOG POUND? NO, I WAS JUST THERE YESTERDAY.
I MEAN, I ACTUALLY HEARD PILES RIGHT BY THE POUND.
HAVE A ROADWAY THERE, THERE IS THERE.
I COULDN'T IMAGINE HOW WE COULD POSSIBLY GET THE STONE FROM THE PILE TO COME DOWN AND GO ACROSS THE ROAD AND COME DOWN INTO DOG WORK AREAS.
THE ROADWAY ITSELF, GOING ALONG THE ROADWAY, WE'VE GOT THE, THE CONCRETE BARRIERS AND THE BLOCKS, WHICH MAKE A, A LARGER AREA MAKES IT HARDER FOR MATERIAL TO GET ACROSS THERE.
IT JUST DOESN'T MOVE BY ITSELF.
SO IRV, I REFERENCED THE FACT THAT YOU'RE MHA CERTIFIED.
OSHA CERTIFIED AND FIRST AID CERTIFIED.
AM I CORRECT? WELL, ACTUALLY NO.
I'M AN MHA INSTRUCTOR IN TWO DIFFERENT FIELDS IN MHA THERE'S PART 46 AND 48.
46 IS BOTH ARE SURFACE MINES, BUT IT'S BASICALLY I HANDLE EVERYTHING ON THE SURFACE.
SAND, GRAVEL, ROCK, MINERALS, GOLD, EVERYTHING ELSE.
I'LL BE DOING THAT SEVEN 30 TOMORROW MORNING.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT SAFETY FOR A MOMENT.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS COME INTO QUESTION FROM THE TOWN IS WHETHER OR NOT IF THERE WERE A SITUATION AT THE FAIL SITE, WHETHER THERE WOULD BE ACCESS TO GET TO EMPLOYEES USING EQUIPMENT OR OTHERWISE FOR FIRST RESPONDERS.
IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT IMPEDES FIRST RESPONDERS FROM GETTING SAFE ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY? A AS IT SITS NOW, THERE'S YEAH, I, I HAVE A, I'M GIMME A SECOND ONLY BECAUSE ALL THE TIME YOU NEED, I, I'M TRYING TO SEE HOW THAT WOULD BE A PROBLEM.
I CANNOT IN MY MIND UNDERSTAND HOW AN EMPLOYEE WOULD'VE GOTTEN IN A SITUATION THAT WOULD'VE BEEN UNTENABLE FOR EMS TO GET TO 'EM.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, THEY HAVE BASKETS THERE.
IF SOMEBODY, I MEAN, IF, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONLY STOCKPILE AREA, THE EMPLOYEES, THE GROUND PEOPLE DON'T WORK THERE, WORK AROUND STOCKPILES, THE MACHINE DOES.
OKAY, YOU HAVE A BIG MACHINE, UM, COULDN'T GET IN THIS ROOM AND THE REACH ON TOP OF 'EM GOES UP 25 FEET.
THE HOP THE PILES ARE PROBABLY NOT MUCH MORE THAN 25 OR 30 FEET ON MOST OF THE STOCKPILES.
WHAT ABOUT THE GUY WORKING IN THE EXCAVATOR OR THE PIECE OF EQUIPMENT ON TOP OF THE BENCHED AREA ON THAT LITTLE BENCHED AREA? WELL, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING ABOVE HIM BECAUSE THEY HAVE IT LIKE, LIKE IF THIS IS WHERE HE IS WORKING ON THIS, MY PODIUM HERE, AND YOU IMAGINE THERE'S AN EXCAVATOR SITTING HERE WORKING.
AND RIGHT HERE WHERE THE LAWYER IS, IS A BIG PILE OF ROCK.
THIS IS CALLED CHARACTER ASSESSMENT.
YOU HAVE THE BIG EXCAVATOR HERE DIGGING AND THE MATERIAL'S OVER HERE.
THERE'S A, THERE'S LIKE A LITTLE GEY WHERE HE IS ALWAYS PULLING IT UP AND IN TO GET FROM HERE TO HERE.
IS IT ALMOST A MATHEMATICAL IMPOSSIBILITY? THE ROCKS DON'T LEAP EVEN IF THEY FALL AND WILL TUMBLE DOWN AS HE DISTURBS THE PILE, WHICH IS WHAT HE'LL DO, HE'LL REACH UP WITH HIS BUCKET SOMETIME AND YOU'LL SEE HIM GRADE IT AND ROCK TUMBLE SOME ROCKS DOWN.
SO HE HAS AN EASIER SCOOP TO PICK IT UP AND COME OVER HERE AND DUMP.
HAVING A MATERIAL JUMP OVER HERE WOULD BE, NOTHING'S IMPOSSIBLE, BUT THE NUMBER'S RIGHT NEXT TO ZERO FOR PROBABILITIES.
IRVIN ADDITION TO INSPECTING, UM, SOMETHING LIKE FAILED RECLAMATION AND RECYCLING FACILITY.
YOU INSPECT MINE PROPERTIES AS WELL? YES.
DO MINE PROPERTIES HAVE EQUIPMENT AT EVEN HIGHER ELEVATIONS IN BIGGER PILES? WELL, DALE'S YARD UP THERE IS, HAS GOT ONE TWICE THAT HEIGHT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT A, I DON'T HAVE A SCANNER, BUT IT LOOKS TO BE AT LEAST A HUNDRED FEET HIGH, MAYBE 75 OR 80 COMING OFF THE 50 SEVENS.
YEAH, ABOUT A HUNDRED FEET ON A TELEHANDLER.
UM, THEY, IT'S AN EXTENDABLE, A TELEHANDLER IS A EXTENDABLE CONVEYOR BELT THAT ALSO MOVES.
SO IT JUST FEEDS AND IT CONSTANTLY GOES.
AS A PILE GOES UP, IT GOES UP AND IT FEEDS OUT NOW.
AND YOU CAN PUT 50,000, A HUNDRED THOUSAND TONS OF PRODUCT IN ONE PILE AND THERE'S NO PROBLEM.
DO YOU MAKE SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS TO JESSE, TO JEFF, TO GLEN AND ASK HIM TO MODIFY THINGS AND ADJUST THINGS? EVERY MONTH? EVERY MONTH I DO MONTHLY SITE AUDITS.
I DO OTHER PEOPLE WHERE I COME AROUND AND, AND WE'LL MAKE SUGGESTIONS TO THEM FOR, UH, SAFETY, FOR, FOR SOME, UH, USUALLY, UH, PROCEDURAL AND, UH, EVEN PRODUCTION.
IS THAT CUSTOM AND PRACTICE IN THE INDUSTRY THAT WERE THEY THE ONLY SITE YOU GO TO AND MAKE SUGGESTIONS? OH, YOU DON'T KNOW ME.
I'LL GO LOOK IN A RESTAURANT AND TELL 'EM I'VE GOT PROBLEMS. THE FIRST THING I DO, WALK INTO A RESTAURANT AND GO LOOK AT ALL THE, UM, LOOK AT ALL THE, UH, FIRE EXTINGUISHERS.
THAT'S JUST A HABIT I WILL NEVER GO INTO.
I'M NEVER GONNA GET TRAPPED IN THERE.
I DON'T CARE HOW GOOD THE FOOD IS.
I'M GONNA GET OUT THAT DOOR WITH MY WIFE.
SO THIS JUST, THAT'S JUST WHAT IT IS.
AND THEY'VE ALWAYS, THEY HAVE BEEN VERY ATTENTIVE.
I HAVE HAD OTHER CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE BEEN LESS ATTENTIVE.
[00:40:01]
AND IT GOES VERY, VERY, VERY FAR.THANK YOU FOR COMING OUT AND TALKING ABOUT SAFETY AND ENTAILS OPERATION.
ARE THERE ANY RECORDS THAT ARE KEPT THAT YOU LOOK AT AT TIMES? I'M SORRY.
ANY RECORDS THAT ARE KEPT BY THE FIELD THAT YOU LOOK AT AT ANY TIME ON YOUR VISITS? I, UH, IN PREPARATION FOR THIS MEETING, I ATTEMPTED TO FIND ANY OSHA RECORDS BECAUSE BASICALLY THEY'RE COVERED BY OSHA AND DEC AT THIS PARTICULAR SITE.
UM, THERE ARE NONE BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN NO, NO CITATIONS NOR ANY LOST DAY INJURIES.
I ACTUALLY HAD PEOPLE WORKING ON IT AT OUR HEADQUARTERS UP IN WARRENSBURG, NEW YORK.
I WAS TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THERE, THERE WAS NOTHING TO PULL OUT.
I WILL, IF I GO INTO A SITE, DO THAT ON AN MHA SITE.
A MINE, BY THE WAY Y'ALL UNDERSTAND MHA MEANS MINE SAFETY AND HAZARD ADMINISTRATION.
THE MINING INDUSTRY HAS THEIR OWN SAFETY ORGANIZATION.
UM, I WILL PULL OUT THEIR NUMBER, I'LL PULL OUT THEIR ADDRESS AND I CAN PULL OUT, UH, ANY CITATIONS.
UM, BUT THERE WAS NOTHING DOWN HERE IN ELFORD US TO FIND.
SO THERE'S NO RECORDS THAT THE COMPANY ITSELF HAS TO KEEP FOR YOU TO, OR, OR ANY OF THE OTHER AGENCIES TO PERUSE IF THERE HAS BEEN AN AN INJURY OR CITATION? THEY HAVE TO HAVE THEM, BUT THERE AREN'T ANY, THERE'S NONE ON RECORD.
SO THE OSHA AND SSHA REGULATIONS.
DO THEY DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN A SITE THAT MAY BE 10,000 OR A HUNDRED THOUSAND ACRES VERSUS ONE THAT'S FIVE OR 20 ACRES? THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
UH, I THINK OSHA JUST CALLS 'EM CONSTRUCTION SITES, WHEREAS THE MINE SAFETY AND HAZARD ADMINISTRATION, WHICH THIS PLACE IS NOT A MINE RIGHT, HAS A SMALL PERMIT, LARGE PERMIT.
UH, SO ONE IS FIVE ACRES AND ONE IS ANYTHING OVER FIVE ACRES.
UH, THAT'S GENERALLY HAS TO DO WITH HOW MUCH THEY'RE MONITORED BY SSHA.
HOWEVER, THEY STILL HAVE TO BE INSPECTED TWICE A YEAR BY OUTSIDE, BY BY THE MINE SAFETY AND HAZARD ADMINISTRATION.
SO SSHA DOESN'T APPLY? NO, IT'S A RECYCLING AREA.
I JUST WANT TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHICH, SO WE'RE SAYING THE OSHA REGULATIONS ARE THE ONES THAT DO IT AND THEY DON'T DIFFERENTIATE BY SIZE, NO.
UM, DO THE OSHA REGULATIONS THAT TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAVE ANY
SO THIS IS KIND OF A HOLE THAT EXISTS IN ALL THE LAWS.
NO, IT'S NOT A HOLE BECAUSE IT'S COVERED BY GEOMETRY AGAIN.
NO, BUT NOBODY'S REGULATING THE GEOMETRY OR ANYTHING ELSE.
WE, WE COME IN AND THERE'S A FLOOR PLAN.
IT'S CALLED THE GROUND CONTROL PLAN OF ANY, ANY INDUSTRY THEY HAVE THERE SET UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE X NUMBER OF MACHINES WORKING, Y NUMBER OF PIECES, A MOVABLE EQUIPMENT MOVING.
AND THIS ALL FITS INTO AN EQUATION FOR ROADWAYS.
WHATEVER'S LEFT IS WHERE THE STOCKPILES ARE.
WELL, JUST TO CLARIFY, THERE'S NO RULES OR LAW THAT SAYS HOW MANY PIECES OF EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE TO HAVE OPERATING? NO.
YOU SAID THEY HAD TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PIECES OF EQUIPMENT.
AND I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT THAT WASN'T SOMETHING OPTIONAL.
IT'S, IT'S OPTIONAL TO THEIR BUSINESS PLAN.
WHEN THEY DECIDE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE, UH, CONCRETE RECYCLING AND OVER HERE THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING SOIL.
THEY'RE DIFFERENT MACHINES AT THIS MOMENT.
THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE DECIDED TO DO.
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE RULES, WHAT'S OUT THERE, WHAT ISN'T OUT THERE, WHAT'S COVERED, WHAT'S NOT COVERED.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TALKING.
OH, AND AGAIN, SINCE WE DIDN'T GET ACROSS FROM THE OTHER SIDE, I'LL JUST ASK THIS QUESTION.
THE NAME OF YOUR COMPANY IS WHAT? AND YOU'RE HIRED BY THE TO, TO INSPECT? I DID.
NAME OF THE COMPANY? OH, UH, THE COMPANY I WORK WITH IS CATAMOUNT CONSULTING.
I, UH, I RUN THE PENNSYLVANIA AREA, ACTUALLY COME DOWN FROM REDDING, PENNSYLVANIA, BUT I WORKED MY WAY UP AND DOWN THE EIGHT ROUTE 87.
MUCH MORE FUN THAN 2 87, BELIEVE ME.
UM, DOWN IN, AND ONE OF THE SIDEBAR, 'CAUSE AGAIN, I WANT, I WANT THEM TO MOVE FORWARD AS WELL WITH THEIR WITNESSES THAT THEY'RE BRINGING FORWARD.
NOT THAT I TAKE EXCEPTION, BUT YOU DID MAKE A, A COMMENT ABOUT THE SAFETY ASPECT AND OBVIOUSLY THE GEOMETRY AND WHERE THE EQUIPMENT ARE.
[00:45:01]
AND THAT'S IN A PERFECT WORLD.SO I THINK PART OF THE QUESTION THAT YOU WERE ASKED BY THE ATTORNEY WAS IF AN ACCIDENT WERE TO HAPPEN, AND I WON'T NAME THE PARTICULAR MUNICIPALITY 'CAUSE WE'RE COMING CLOSE TO THE ANNIVERSARY, BUT WE DID HAVE A LOOK AT MUNICIPALITY NOT LONG AGO THAT, UM, O OSHA DOES COVER CONFINED SPACE.
WE HAD TWO FIREMEN GO DOWN IN A HOLE THAT KNOWING BETTER, THEY PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE.
SO THIS ISSUE OF SAFETY AND UNDERSTANDING THE ROADWAYS AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GEOMETRY OF WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE.
I THINK THE QUESTION HAVE IN THE ADVENT OF IF SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC OR SOMETHING ACCIDENTAL HAPPENED, WHAT ARE THE PRECAUTIONS TO BE ABLE TO RECOVER AN INDIVIDUAL WHERE THERE'S NOT EITHER MORE PROPERTY DAMAGE OR FURTHER LIGHT? THAT'S THE SIMPLEST WAY THAT I CAN ASK THAT QUESTION HYPOTHETICALLY.
'CAUSE I, I, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF THE SITUATION.
UH, LET'S, SINCE YOU BRING UP CONFINED SPACE, LET ME, LET ME DEAL WITH THAT.
WE HAD THE SAME ISSUE DOWN IN WRITING PENNSYLVANIA WHERE I WAS.
UM, WE HAD ONE OF THE LOCAL WATER AUTHORITY, TWO WATER AUTHORITY REPAIRMEN WENT DOWN INTO A CULVERT.
THEY WERE RE-CHANGING OUT A VALVES.
ONE OF THE VALVE HINGES BLEW OFF, HIT THE GUY IN THE CHEST, KNOCKED 'EM BACK DOWN.
NOW THEY WERE BOTH DOING, IF YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW CONFINED SPACE, I'LL TRY TO BE BRIEF.
ONE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE LIMITED ACCESS, RIGHT? THIS ROOM IS ABOUT KIND OF A CONFINED SPACE.
WE DON'T HAVE UNLIMITED ACCESS, RIGHT? WE, WE CAN'T JUMP THROUGH A WINDOW, GO THROUGH THE ROOF.
TWO, YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET IN THERE AND DO OUR JOB AS WE ALL ARE TONIGHT.
THREE, THE ONLY THING THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS AN ACTUAL CONFINED SPACES THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE, WE'RE NOT, IT'S NOT SET UP FOR HUMAN HABITATION.
AND WE ARE HERE, IT'S COMFORTABLE, IT'S AIR WITH CHAIRS, ET CETERA.
SO THE CONFINED SPACE, GETTING INTO A CULVERT, CLIMBING UNDER A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT, LET'S SAY, RIGHT? UH, SOME KIND OF A STEEL BOX.
WELL THERE ARE NO HOPPERS THERE THAT I'VE SEEN.
SO WE HAVE VERY LIMITED, WELL LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE THEY HAD SOME KIND OF HOPPER THERE THAT WAS HOLDING THE MATERIAL THAT DOESN'T EXIST.
AND YES, A MAN WERE TO FALL IN IT BECAUSE HE HAD TO CLIMB A LADDER AND FELL IN AND HE GOT TO THE EXTENT OF HIS HARNESS AND WE HAVE TO PULL 'EM OUT.
THEY WOULD HAVE A PLAN BECAUSE I KNOW OUR COMPANY HAS WORKED WITH GLEN'S TO COME UP WITH A CONFINED SPACE PLAN FOR THEIR, FOR THEIR UH, SITES.
AND SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD BE OKAY, THERE WAS ANOTHER MAN UP IN A HYDRAULIC LIFT THE BASKET, WHICH THEY HAVE RIGHT THERE.
WE CAN NOW PULL THE VAN OUT, WE CAN GET HIM DOWN TO THE GROUND.
BY THE TIME HE HAS MS GETS THERE, WHICH USUALLY HAPPENS ON NINE SITES.
HE'S ALREADY BEEN EXTRACTED BY THE EMPLOYEES.
'CAUSE IT TAKES SAY 10 MINUTES TO GET HELP THERE.
SO UNLESS IT REQUIRES SOMETHING LIKE THE JAWS OF LIFE MM-HMM
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PILES AND WHERE THE EQUIPMENT OR DERRICK'S, WHATEVER THE, THE MACHINERY WOULD BE ON THE PILES IF SOMETHING WERE TO HAPPEN, YOU ARE ATTESTING THAT THERE IS SPACE TO BE ABLE TO RECOVER THE VEHICLE OR RECOVER THE INDIVIDUAL AROUND THOSE PILES? I BELIEVE SO, YES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH EVERYBODY.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD.
UM, OUR NEXT WITNESS, UH, WILL BE KEN BRENER FROM WALDEN ENGINEERING.
KEN IS AN EXPERT IN DEC REGULATIONS, SPECIFICALLY PART 360 MINING AND RECYCLING.
HE WAS A REGIONAL MATERIALS MANAGEMENT ENGINEER FOR THE DEC FOR 35 OR POSSIBLY MORE YEARS.
UH, WE BROUGHT HIM HERE TONIGHT, UH, BECAUSE SOME OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE SET FORTH IN THE TOWN'S JANUARY 8TH MEMO, UM, WE FELT DIDN'T REALLY MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.
UM, THEY SEEMED TO BE INCONSISTENT WITH CUSTOM AND PRACTICE, UH, IN THE INDUSTRY AND INCONSISTENT WITH HOW SITES LIKE THIS OPERATE SAFELY.
SO WE ASKED KEN AND KEN, YOU CAN COME FORWARD.
WE ASK KEN TO COME IN AND SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS.
SHOULD WE PAUSE MADAM CHAIR? NO, SHE'S JUST GRABBING A COAT.
SHE'S JUST GRABBING HER COAT SWORN IN.
UM, WE'VE ASKED KEN TO COME IN AND SPEAK TO MIXED LOADS, UM, WHETHER IT MAKES, UH, A DIFFERENCE IF IT'S COMING FROM ROAD CONSTRUCTION OR SOME OTHER CONSTRUCTION.
UM, AND, AND I WILL, UH, REMIND THE BOARD THAT THE TOWN IN ITS CONDITIONS, ALTHOUGH BACK IN DECEMBER THEY TOLD US NO MIXED LOADS IN JANUARY, THEY TOLD US, OKAY, MAYBE MIXED LOADS BUT ONLY MIXED
[00:50:01]
LOADS FROM ROAD CONSTRUCTION.SO WE'RE GONNA ASK KEN TO ADDRESS THAT.
IN ADDITION, IN DECEMBER, THE TOWN TOLD US NO ASPHALT AT ALL.
THEN IN JANUARY, ASPHALT WAS ALLOWED, BUT ONLY UNDER CERTAIN SITUATIONS IN PARTICULAR WHERE IT WAS PUT INTO SOME KIND OF CONTAINMENT STRUCTURE.
UH, SO WE'RE GONNA ASK KEN TO ADDRESS MIXED LOADS, ASPHALT, UM, AND I'LL, I'LL ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS KEN IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT AT FIRST IF YOU'D INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND STATE YOUR CREDENTIALS.
WELL FIRST OF ALL, MR. BRAND, I DON'T SWEAR I'VE TESTIFIED IN COURT.
SO I DO SO AFFIRM IN THIS MATTER TONIGHT.
I WILL SAY THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
OKAY, SO MY NAME IS KENNETH BRENER.
I'M A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER LICENSED IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND NEW JERSEY.
I JOINED NEW YORK STATE DEC IN JANUARY, 1988 IN THE DIVISION OF AIR.
I MOVED OVER TO THE DIVISION OF SOLID AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS THAT CHANGED ITS NAME OVER TIME IN SEPTEMBER, 1989.
I'VE BEEN IN THAT DIVISION TILL THE TIME I RETIRED, WHICH WAS JUNE, 2022.
I'VE HAD HANDLED, I WAS IN MANY DIFFERENT POSITIONS AS I GOT PROMOTED MULTIPLE TIMES IN THAT.
SO I STARTED OFF AS AN ASSISTANT ENGINEER, GOT PROMOTED TO A SENIOR ENGINEER TO AN ASSOCIATE ENGINEER TO FINALLY A PRINCIPAL ENGINEER.
ONE YEAR I HAD AN HIATUS FROM THE NEW YORK CITY OFFICE WHERE I WAS IN SEPTEMBER, 1989.
AND I GOT ONE YEAR I WAS IN THE NEW PALTZ OFFICE AND I MOVED BACK TO GET PROMOTED IN 2011.
I WAS TRAINED ACTUALLY AS A CHEMICAL ENGINEER AND THAT'S WHAT I TOOK MY PE IN.
BUT I WORKED AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEER.
SO I'VE HANDLED, WHEN I WAS IN THE DEC, I'VE HANDLED NEARLY EVERY TYPE OF SOLID WASTE FACILITY BETWEEN TRANSFER STATIONS, CONSTRUCTION, DEMOLITION FACILITIES, WASTE TIRES, WASTE OIL, REGULATED MEDICAL WASTE, ASBESTOS WASTE, THE FRESH KILLS, LANDFILL.
I'VE HANDLED A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES OVER MY TIME.
SO IF YOU TALK ABOUT NEW YORK CITY, I KNOW THAT VERY WELL AND I DEL PAR, A LOT OF MY JOB HAD TO DEAL WITH CONSTRUCTION DEMOLITION PROCESSING FACILITIES UNDER THE OLD 360 DASH 16.
SO I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH FACILITIES OF THIS ILK.
KEN, IF YOU WOULD JUST, LET'S ADDRESS A COUPLE OF THINGS VERY SPECIFICALLY.
UM, THE TOWN HAS DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN MIXED LOADS FROM ROAD CONSTRUCTION AND MIXED LOADS FROM NON ROAD CONSTRUCTIONS.
IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION? SO IN DEC, THE REGULATIONS, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
THE REGULATIONS HAVE NO DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN WHETHER IT COMES FROM UNDERNEATH THE ROAD, WHETHER IT COMES FROM A HOMEOWNER, WHETHER IT COMES FROM AN INDUSTRIAL SITE.
WE LOOK AT IT AS SAYING AS IF IT DOESN'T HAVE CONTAMINATION.
THAT'S WHY THE REGULATIONS TALKED ABOUT AT THE TIME, REGULATED, A RECOGNIZABLE UNCONTAMINATED, CONCRETE, ASPHALT, ROCK, BRICK AND SOIL.
THE ABBREVIATIONS IS, ARE YOU CARBS? THAT'S WHAT WE USED ALL OF THE FOR SO MANY YEARS.
AND THESE TYPE OF FACILITIES, C AND D PROCESSING FACILITIES, WHICH IS THE OFFICIAL TERM THEY USED AT THE TIME, WAS THE HAND COULD TAKE IN ANY COMBINATION OF THE ARE U CARBS.
SO IF I WERE TO TELL YOU THAT THIS FACILITY WAS ONLY GONNA BE ALLOWED TO TAKE ROAD MIXED LOADS, BUT NOT FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY NEXT TO IT, WOULD THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? NOT TO DEC REGULATIONS.
UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT ASPHALT FOR A MOMENT.
UM, IS ASPHALT TYPICALLY, UM, RECEIVED AT RECYCLING FACILITIES OF THIS NATURE? YES.
AND UM, CAN IT BE DONE SAFELY? YES.
IS ASPHALT PETROLEUM IS, IS ASPHALT TYPICALLY PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED? NO.
ASPHALT IS A PRODUCT THAT'S THESE FACILITIES ALL THE TIME.
ASPHALT IS NOT A PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED MATERIAL.
IT'S ONLY CONSIDERED PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED.
WITH GIVING EXAMPLE, THERE IS AN ASPHALT AREA THAT THERE WAS A TRUCK THAT SPILLED A PETROLEUM TRUCK THAT FELL OVER AND LEAKED.
SO IF AN OIL TRUCK FELL OVER, THE ASPHALT THAT ABSORBED THAT PETROLEUM WOULD BE PA WOULD BE PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED.
BUT IF YOU GO JUST A FEW FEET AWAY FROM THAT HAS NO PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED IS NOT CONSIDERED PETROLEUM CONTAMINATED.
WHETHER IT'S ASPHALT PAVEMENT, ASPHALT MILLINGS.
DOES PART 360 THAT WOULD REGULATE THIS FACILITY, DOES IT MANDATE CONTAINMENT STRUCTURES? NO, AND I'VE DEALT WITH THIS FOR MANY YEARS AND I HAD VERY DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH STAFF IN THE NEW YORK STATE DEC DIVISION OF WATER.
AND THEY'VE NEVER REGULATED AND REQUIRED ANY HANDLING OF WATER THAT TOUCHES ASPHALT, MILLINGS OR ASPHALT PAVEMENT.
BEYOND THE NORMAL SWEEP OF THESE FACILITIES, DOES ASPHALT LEACH INTO THE SOIL OR NEARBY WATERWAYS? SO AGAIN, IF YOU'RE SAYING IS I CAN GIVE YOU GO THROUGH
[00:55:01]
THE REASONS WHICH I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH 'CAUSE I DON'T WANNA BORE YOU FOR HALF AN HOUR.SO BASICALLY BECAUSE OF THE COMPOUNDS THAT ARE IN THAT, A BINDER IN THE ASPHALT ARE VERY LARGE COMPOUNDS.
THEY DON'T WANT TO BLEACH INTO THE WATER, SO THEREFORE THEY STAY BOUND ON THE PARTICULATES ONTO THE ASPHALT AND THEY DON'T CONTAMINATE THE WATER.
IF YOU HAVE SEVERAL EPA DOCUMENTS SAY THAT WAY, ET CETERA.
SO THE ANSWER IS NO, THEY DON'T LEACH INTO THE WATER.
AND EXCEPT THERE'S ONLY EXCEPTION IS WHEN YOU HAVE COLD TAR ASH, WHICH IS WHAT'S USED IN LIKE COLD, YOU KNOW, WHEN THERE'S A VERY COLD, THEY'RE DOING A PATCH.
BUT THE REGULAR ASPHALT THAT'S PUT ON THE ROAD AROUND THE WORLD, ALL OVER THE WORLD, THEY USE ASPHALT.
AND NOBODY'S CONCERNED ABOUT THE LEACHING THAT COMES OFF OF THAT BEYOND THE NORMAL SW IN NEW YORK.
IT'S ONLY THEY, THEY JUST HAVE TO FOLLOW THE REGULAR SW THAT'S REVIEWED BY DEC AND APPROVED BY DEC AS WHETHER IT'S DIRT ROCK COMING FROM ASPHALT, ET CETERA.
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CONCERNS KEN RAISED IN THIS MATTER BY THE TOWN ABOUT OMI SOILS ON THIS PROPERTY THAT COULD CAUSE SAFETY OR OTHER CONCERNS.
AND D CSS NEVER, THE REGULATIONS MAKE NO DIFFERENCE OF WHETHER IT'S CLAY, OMI SOIL, SILTY, SILTY SOIL SAND, THEY, THEY, UH, THE NATURAL ANGLE, THE NATURAL, LIKE IT'S COMING OFF A CONVEYOR, IT NATURALLY WANTS TO GO TO CERTAIN ANGLES.
SO NO D EEC REGULATIONS DON'T HAVE ANYTHING OF CONCERNS ABOUT SAFETY OF, OF, OF DIFFERENTIATING ANYTHING WITH THAT, CAN I APPRECIATE IT MADAM CHAIR.
I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER FOR MR. BRENER IF THE BOARD HAS A QUESTION, BUT HE WAS REALLY HERE TO ADDRESS MIXED LOADS AND ASPHALT AND LMI SOILS.
SO HOW DOES THE PRODUCT, THE PARTICULARLY ASPHALT, HOW IS THAT PRODUCT, UH, KNOWN TO BE CONTAMINATED OR NOT CONTAMINATED WHEN IT'S BROUGHT FOR, UM, RECYCLING? SO UNDER THE NEW YORK STATE LAW AND OTHER THAN THE STATE SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT PLAN, THEY, THE STATE OF NEW YORK IS OFFICIALLY SAYING WE WANT THE ASPHALT TO BE REUSED, PARTICULARLY BE REUSED AS IN THE ASPHALT MAKING OF NEW ASPHALT.
SO IT DOESN'T THE, THERE YOU SHOULD ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT WAY WOULD YOU THINK THAT ASPHALT WOULD BE CONTAMINATED? IF IT'S COMING FROM A ROAD, THERE'S A PIECE OF CON ASPHALT PAVEMENT, THE SIZE OF THAT TABLE, WHAT'S GONNA CONTAMINATE IT? IF IT'S GOT AN OIL SPILL, OKAY, THEN IT'S OIL, THEN IT'S CONTAMINATED.
IF IT'S NOT, IT'S WHAT'S, WHAT'S GONNA MIX INTO IT TO BE CONTAMINATED? HOW DOES ONE DETERMINE THAT? I THINK WHAT THE CHAIRMAN WAS DRIVING AT, AND I I RELATED SOME OF THESE COMMENTS FROM THE REGS EARLIER, IS VISUAL INSPECTION AND SMELLING ODOR INSPECTION STANDARD PRACTICE FOR A FACILITY LIKE THIS.
THAT'S THE STANDARD PRACTICE HAVING, HAVING SPENT 20 YEARS WORKING FOR NEW YORK CITY DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, AND BEFORE THAT I DID WATER.
SO I, I'M FAMILIAR WITH SOME OF WHAT YOU DO, BUT WITH DOT, NEW YORK CITY DOT, UM, WE OFTEN FELT THAT THE ROADWAY AND DISCUSSED THAT THE ROADWAYS WERE CONTAMINATED BY HEAVY USAGE OF TRUCKS AND CARS.
AND THAT WAS NOT PURE CLEAN ASPHALT.
SO HOW IS IT CON SO CHEMICALLY, HOW IS IT GONNA BE CONTAMINATED WHEN THERE'S A BINDER WHICH MAKES IT, UM, THE WATER FROM THAT WILL, WILL SHEEN OFF AS YOU SEE THAT IT DOES.
WELL, ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE PARTICULATES FROM THE, THE COMING OFF OF THE, THE TRUCKS THAT ARE NOW ON THE SURFACE OF THAT? BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO GO IN PAST THE BINDER INTO THE ASPHALT MIX ITSELF.
WHAT IT DID DO IS IT MADE THE ASPHALT SLIPPERY.
AND I THINK ANY OF US WHO HAVE GOTTEN, YOU KNOW, WHO HAVE SKIDDED ON A, ON A ROAD THAT'S HEAVILY USED, THAT HAS A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, WE ALL SEEN GAS FUMES COMING OUT OF, YOU KNOW, THEIR TRUCKS, YOU KNOW, THE TAILPIPES AND ALL OF THAT, THAT BUILDS UP OVER TIME.
SO I JUST KNOW FROM THE EXPERIENCE I HAVE THAT WE DID HAVE A VERY BIG DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN CONTAMINATED ASPHALT OR ASPHALT THAT WAS NOT USABLE, THAT WASN'T REUSABLE.
IT COULD STILL GO IN AND BECOME GLASS VAULT OR GO INTO THE ASPHALT RECYCLING PLANT, WHICH WAS A VERY SPECIFIC THING, BUT IT WAS CONSIDERED NOT PURE CLEAN ASPHALT.
AND, AND, UM, MS. DICKINSON, SO FOR THE RECORD, FOR, FOR THE, I I WANNA RESPOND, BECAUSE WE'VE SAID THIS PREVIOUSLY AND I WANNA MAKE SURE THE WHOLE BOARD IS CLEAR WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING AND I I I'VE SEEN THAT SLIPPERY ASPHALT THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING, AND I'M NOT GONNA GET INTO A DEBATE, I'LL LET, I'LL DEFER TO THE EXPERT ON WHETHER OR NOT IT IT CAN LEACH OR CONTAMINATE, WHICH WE'RE BEING TOLD IT'S NOT.
THE KIND YOU ARE DESCRIBING IS THE PRECISE KIND THAT THEY AT FAIL WILL IDENTIFY EITHER VISUALLY OR BY SMELL AND IMMEDIATELY
[01:00:01]
IT WILL LEAVE THE SITE SO THAT ASPHALT IS NOT COMING INTO THIS PROPERTY.AND, AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, I DON'T WANT YOUR QUESTION TO CLOUD THE RECORD THAT SOMEHOW THAT ASPHALT IS COMING IN OR WE'RE ADVOCATING THAT ASPHALT TO COME IN.
AM I CORRECT ABOUT THAT? BUT I'M JUST, I JUST WANNA CLARIFY THAT DEC IS NOT MAKING, THERE'S NO THE, THEY MAY HAVE DECIDED THAT THEY DON'T WANNA HANDLE THAT, BUT IS THERE A REGULATION IN PLACE THAT PREVENTS THAT? YES.
THE PART 360 REGISTRATION HAS TO BE RECOGNIZABLE UNCONTAMINATED AND THE DEC REGULATIONS SPECIFICALLY DIRECT MY CLIENT TO INSPECT BOTH VISUALLY AND BY ODOR.
AND I APOLOGIZE IF MY ANSWER WAS, WAS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH THE FIRST TIME.
THIS SITE, THIS SITE UNDER PART 360 DASH 15, IS NOT PERMITTED TO ACCEPT THAT KIND OF ASPHALT THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING.
AND, AND I GUESS MY CONFUSION IS THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS THE EXPERT IS SAYING DEC DOES NOT HAVE REGULATIONS.
IT DIFFERENTIATES IF IT'S CONTAMINATED, AS I SAID BEFORE, LIKE THERE WAS AN OIL SPILL, BUT THAT'S NOT AN OIL SPILL.
SO YOU'RE SAYING IS ALL THE ASPHALT IN THE ENTIRE WORLD IS CONTAMINATED? NO, BECAUSE ALL THE, I'M SAYING YOU GO TO INDIA, YOU GO TO CHINA, THEY HAVE TRUCKS, AND THE TRUCKS HAVE PARTICULATES THAT COME OFF THE BACK OF THOSE TRUCKS FROM THE DIESEL FUMES AND THE GASOLINE FUMES.
AND YOU'RE SAYING THOSE FUMES ARE CONTAMINATING THE SURFACE LAYER OF THE PARTICULATES ON THAT IS GOING ON THE SURFACE LAYER OF THE ASPHALT.
I I AND THAT'S BEING RUN OFF WHEN YOU HAVE A RAIN.
I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE WITH YOU.
I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOT ALL ASPHALT.
IT'S NOT EVERY LOW TRAFFIC ROADS.
THERE, THERE ARE ROADS ARE DIFF DIFFERENTLY DONE.
SO I'VE BEEN HANDLING THIS FOR 30 YEARS.
I DEALT WITH ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER REEDY, YOU REMEMBER HER? MM-HMM.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS TYPE OF STUFF AT LENGTH, ABOUT HOW THEY WANTED TO HAVE A RECYCLING FACILITY FOR, THEY WANTED TO STORE THE, THEY TAKE THE ASPHALT MILLINGS FROM DIFFERENT CONTRACTORS.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY DISCUSSION FROM HER ABOUT SAYING, WELL, CERTAIN ASPHALT IN THE CITY HAS TO BE SEGREGATED FROM OTHER ASPHALT.
DO MOST OF THOSE GO TO ASPHALT RECYCLING PLANTS? BASICALLY, YES.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S A VERY SPECIFIC PLANT THAT ONLY HANDLES ASPHALT THAT THIS FACILITY IS SAYING THEY WANT TO TAKE IT TO THEIR FISH KILL FACILITY, WHICH IS AN ASPHALT PLANT TO TAKE AN ASPHALT, WHICH IS THE BEST WAY WE, THE DEC WANTS IT TO HAPPEN.
I, I WANNA BE CLEAR ON THAT 'CAUSE I'M NOT EVEN POSITIVE.
KEN KNOWS THAT WE'VE MADE THIS OFFER, BUT THE CONDITION THAT WE PLACED IN OUR DRAFT PERMIT DATED DECEMBER 13TH, 2023, NO PROCESSING OF ASPHALT ON THIS PROPERTY.
AND JUST TO, I, I WANTED TO GET THE EXACT SITE SO THAT I COULD RESPOND TO YOUR QUE QUESTION FROM TWO MINUTES AGO.
THE REGISTRATION DOCUMENT THAT WE HAVE FROM THE DEC IS FOR QUOTE PROCESSING FACILITIES RECEIVING ONLY RECOGNIZABLE UNCONTAMINATED UNCONTAMINATED, CONCRETE ASPHALT PAVEMENT, BRICK SOIL, OR ROCK CITING.
I SAID 15 3 16 1D ONE I, I WANT THE RECORD CLEAR UNDER 360 DASH 16, WE CANNOT TAKE CONTAMINATED ASPHALT.
THE REGULATIONS ARE VERY CLEAR THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE CONTAMINATED ASPHALT.
SO IF THERE'S ANY KNOWLEDGE, WHICH THE FACILITY NORMALLY THE CUSTOM IS, AND THAT'S HOW FACILITIES THEY SMELL IT, THEY, THEY LOOK AT IT.
IF THERE'S CONTAMINATION, THEY'RE OBLIGATED TO REJECT IT.
ANYTHING FURTHER FOR MR. PRESIDENT? YEAH, JUST ONE SMALL ONE.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE DEC COVERS THIS OR WHATEVER.
IS THERE A CHAIN OF CUSTODY IN TERMS OF EVEN RECEIVING IT BEFORE IT COMES TO YOU? SO IN THE OFF CHANCE THAT YOU'RE SAYING 2 87 THERE'S A MAJOR OIL SPILL, OIL TANKER GOES OVER, THEY WANNA PICK UP THAT ROAD.
LIKE IS THERE ANY RESPONSIBILITY PRIOR TO YOUR INSPECTION ON SITE? LIKE WHAT WOULD BE THAT CHAIN OF CUSTODY? WHO SIGNS OFF ON THAT TO APPROVE THAT? IF WE WANTED TO CHECK THAT THAT ACTUALLY IS IN FACT THAT THIS IS CLEAN ASPHALT, HOW WOULD THAT PROCESS WORK? GO AHEAD.
SO IF I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, MR. BLAND, THAT AGAIN COMES INTO THE SITE IN TERMS OF CHAIN OF CUSTODY.
A CONTRACTOR IS DIGGING UP TO 87, WHETHER THE CONTRACTOR HAS ITS OWN TRUCK OR HAS A SEPARATE TRUCKING COMPANY, THEY'RE PICKING UP THAT MATERIAL AND PUTTING IT IN A TRUCK.
CORRECT? THAT TRUCK IS THEN COMING TO AN APPROPRIATE FACILITY.
IF THE TRUCK HAS CONTAMINATED ASPHALT ON IT, 99 TIMES OUT OF
[01:05:01]
A HUNDRED, THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO THAT FACILITY 'CAUSE THEY'RE NOT GONNA TAKE THAT MATERIAL THERE.BUT IN OFF CHANCE, DID THEY ATTEMPTED TO? IF THEY ATTEMPTED TO, THEN IT WOULD BE SUBJECT UNDER THE DEC REGULATIONS AND UNDER MY CLIENT'S PROTOCOLS TO A VISUAL INSPECTION AND A SMELL TEST BOTH.
TEST BOTH, AS WE'VE BEEN TOLD IN THESE PROCEEDINGS BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF THE TRUCK AND AFTER IT'S DUMPED ON THE GROUND.
AND IF IT'S DUMPED ON THE GROUND, AND IT'S NOT LIKE IT'S NEVER HAPPENED, I THINK THEY'LL TESTIFIED, MR. QUIANA TESTIFIED THAT IF STUFF IS DEPOSITED ON THE GROUND AND LIKE UHOH, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DO? EXCUSE ME.
WHAT ARE YOU, WHAT THE, WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU GUYS DOING? YOU KNOW, DROPPING THIS, UH, GOTTA GET IT OUTTA HERE.
IT GETS PICKED UP, PUT BACK ON A TRUCK AND IT GOES TO A SITE AS MS. DICKINSON SAID, THAT IS OTHERWISE CERTIFIED AND PERMITTED TO TAKE CONTAMINATED ASPHALT.
SO JUST ON YOUR SECTION FOUR THAT YOU QUOTED, SO BASICALLY YOU'RE SAYING THE ASPHALT MATERIAL, UM, NOW IS A STORAGE LOCATION FOR IT, CORRECT? THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
SO IT'S, IT'S SPENDING A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME THERE.
IT'S A STORAGE FACILITY FOR THIS, IT, IT IS A REPOSITORY TO THEN GO OFF.
AND THE REASON IT'S DOING THAT, I'M GONNA GO BACK TO WHAT I SAID A WHILE AGO BECAUSE OF THE BUD.
THE BUD TELLS US, THANK GOODNESS THESE GUYS ARE TAKING AND STORING ASPHALT FROM MIXED LOADS AND OTHERWISE, BECAUSE IT'S GOOD FOR US IN SOCIETY FOR SOMEONE TO RECYCLE THAT AND PUT IT BACK INTO THE NEXT ROAD CONSTRUCTION PROJECT.
AND THEY ARE PART OF THE CHAIN OF CUSTODY.
IT COMES INTO, IT COMES INTO GREENBERG, IT RE IT RESTS THERE UNTIL IT IS FILLING UP A TRUCK.
THAT TRUCK THEN GOES TO FISHKILL AND IN FISHKILL THEY ARE MANUFACTURING RECYCLED ASPHALT THAT WE'RE GETTING PUT BACK INTO OUR ROADS AND DRIVEWAYS IN CONNECTION WITH A BENEFICIAL USE DETERMINATION.
ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU MR. PRESIDENT.
NOW MADAM CHAIR, MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, THERE ARE A FEW OTHER, I'M GONNA CALL THEM SECONDARY OR EXTRANEOUS TOPICS THAT I CAN DO NOW OR WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE TOWN PRESENTS BECAUSE I DEFINITELY WANNA RESPOND ON THE NOTION OF THE CONDITION N DECK THAT THEY ADVOCATED IN THEIR MEMO UNDER SECRA.
I WANNA DEAL WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T NEED TO DEAL WITH THAT NOW.
UM, I AM PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THE ONE INCIDENT OF OF SOME DDT THAT JASON SPOTTED IN A REPORT THAT WE FOUND OUT ABOUT SIX WEEKS AFTER THE TOWN, UM, STAMPED THIS INFORMATION IN.
WE'RE HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
THERE'S MATERIAL, UM, SUBMITTED ABOUT A VACUUM TRUCK THAT WE BOTH READ ABOUT AND TALKED ABOUT WITH STAFF AND WE'RE HAPPY TO SPEAK TO THAT.
TO ME, THOSE ARE ALL KIND OF SECONDARY MINOR THINGS.
I I BELIEVE WE CAN RESOLVE THEM IN QUICKLY AND SIMPLY WHAT I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU KNOW, I AM READY WHEN YOU ARE TO GO CONDITION BY CONDITION THROUGH THE PERMIT, THEIR LANGUAGE JUXTAPOSE AGAINST THE LANGUAGE WE SUBMITTED TO YOU ON DECEMBER 13TH AND EXPLAIN TO YOU THERE, THERE ARE SEVERAL AREAS WHERE WE'RE IN AGREEMENT.
THEY TOOK OUR LANGUAGE AND USED A LOT OF IT.
THERE ARE SEVERAL AREAS WHERE WE ARE IN DISAGREEMENT.
MY PRESENTATION TONIGHT WAS DESIGNED TO SET UP IN ADVANCE WHY WE HAVE DISAGREEMENT, WHY WE THINK THEY ARE WRONG, WHY THE WE THINK THEY DO NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE IN THESE AREAS THAT MAYBE THEY WISH THEY HAD.
THOSE AREAS RELATE TO PILE HEIGHTS AND SIZES.
MIXED LOADS DON'T HAVE TO JUST BE FROM ROAD CONSTRUCTION, ASPHALT NOT A BAD THING.
THOSE ARE THE, THOSE ARE THE SUBSTANTIVE DISCONNECTS THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO CONVINCE JOE AND HIS TEAM THAT OUR PERMIT WAS PROPERLY, CAREFULLY, AND THOUGHTFULLY DRAFTED.
WE STAND BY THAT DESPITE HAVING ZOOM CALLS WITH THE ENTIRE STAFF, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY SAID ONE THING IN DECEMBER AND ANOTHER THING IN JANUARY.
WE HAVEN'T DEVIATED FROM THAT, IN FACT, AND I WANTED, I WANNA MAKE, I'LL ADD ONE MORE APOLOGY.
I APOLOGIZE THAT I BROUGHT IN TWO WITNESSES TONIGHT.
DAVID, WHY DID YOU BRING IN WITNESSES ON JANUARY 18TH? YOU'VE BEEN STANDING IN FRONT OF US FOR MONTHS.
WHY? BECAUSE FOR MONTHS, FOUR MONTHS, I TRIED MY HARDEST PRAGMATICALLY LEGALLY AS AN ADVOCATE TO CONVINCE THEM, YOU GUYS ARE WRONG.
WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THEY'VE NEVER HAD A VIOLATION IN 2016.
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? BUT THEY DIDN'T BACK OFF.
THEY FLIP FLOPPED ON TOO MANY ISSUES TO THE POINT OF FRUSTRATION.
AND THEN THEY SUBMITTED THIS LAST ROUND AND ON JANUARY 9TH WHEN I READ THEIR CONDITIONS, I PICKED UP THE PHONE, I SAID, I'M DONE.
I'M GOING INTO THE NEXT MEETING ON THE 18TH, GLENN, I WANT A DEC EXPERT.
NEVER MET HIM, NEVER HEARD OF THE GUY.
I WANT YOUR SAFETY GUY THAT YOU
[01:10:01]
KEEP TALKING TO ME ABOUT.I'VE HEARD ABOUT HIM, BUT WE'D NEVER SPOKEN.
I SO I APOLOGIZE I DIDN'T BRING THEM SOONER, BUT I GOTTA TELL YOU FOLKS, I DIDN'T NEED THEM SOONER.
I'M HAPPY TO GO LINE BY LINE THROUGH THE PERMIT.
WE'RE READY TO GET A PERMIT TONIGHT.
SO AGAIN, MADAM CHAIR, IT'S YOUR CALL.
YOU WANT ME TO DO C AND D? I'LL DO C AND D NOW YOU WANT ME TO DO DDDT NONSENSE? I'LL DO THAT NOW.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE TOWN.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO SWEAR ME IN? DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO.
UM, SO I'M JOINED HERE TONIGHT BY ELIZABETH ELIZABETH GARRITY, WHO'S THE DEPUTY BUILDING INSPECTOR.
WE HAVE JASON CAPLA, WHO'S THE TOWN ENGINEER, AND WE ALSO HAVE LIEUTENANT MATTHEWS.
I'LL BE BRIEF SINCE I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THESE MATTERS, BUT I DID WANT TO POINT A FEW THINGS OUT.
UM, FIRST OF ALL, OUR SUBMISSION WAS MADE ON JANUARY 8TH, NOT JANUARY 9TH.
WE COMPLIED WITH THE 10 DAY REQUIREMENTS FOR IN ADVANCE OF THIS HEARING AND IN COMPLIANCE WITH YOUR RULES AND REGULATIONS.
JUST WANTED TO CLEAR THAT FOR THE RECORD.
WE'RE NOT OSHA, WE'RE NOT SSHA, WE'RE NOT THE DEC, BUT WE ARE THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
AND WE DO HAVE THE RIGHTS THROUGH STATE LAW ZONING ORDINANCES AND CASE LAW AND THE CODE OF THE TOWN OF GREENBURG TO INSTALL OR AT LEAST REQUEST THAT YOU INSTALL CONDITIONS, UH, THROUGH A SPECIAL PERMIT THAT REGULATE THE USE OF LAND.
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO TONIGHT.
THE TOWN HAS PROPOSED PROPOSED CONDITIONS WHICH ARE FAIR AND REASONABLE AND WHICH RELATE ONLY TO THE USE OF LAND AND WE HAVE NO DESIRE NOR THE ABILITY TO REGULATE ANY BUSINESS OPERATIONS.
WHILE WE'VE WORKED RELENTLESSLY ON THIS MATTER THROUGHOUT THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS TO RESOLVE AS MANY CONDITIONS AS WE CAN.
AND I AGREE WITH DAVID THAT WE HAVE RESOLVED SOME AND THERE ARE JUST SOME LEFT OUTSTANDING.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE BELIEVE WE'VE REACHED A POINT THAT NO FURTHER CONCESSIONS CAN BE MADE AND I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT WOULD AGREE WITH THAT AS WELL.
BECAUSE OF THAT, WE'VE SET FORTH CONDITIONS, UM, THAT WE BELIEVE ARE FAIR AND REASONABLE AND WHICH WILL ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE RESIDENTS OF THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
CONTRARY TO THE APPLICANT'S STATEMENTS EARLIER TODAY AND IN PRIOR HEARINGS, OUR STAFF DOES HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO ADVISE ON THESE CONDITIONS.
TO BE FRANK WITH YOU, IT'S QUITE DISHEARTENING AND IT'S CONDESCENDING TO HEAR OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OR THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE FROM THE PRESENTATION TONIGHT THAT THEY DO, AND I HOPE YOU TAKE THEIR INFORMATION INTO ACCOUNT.
UH, DAVID USED THE TERM MOVING TARGET.
THAT'S BECAUSE WE'VE COME CLOSER TOGETHER OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS AND WE DO AGREE ON MANY OF THOSE CONDITIONS.
EACH SIDE HAS MADE CONCESSIONS SINCE THAT FIRST MEETING LONG AGO ON SEPTEMBER 7TH IN THE LEE F JACKSON ROOM.
I DISAGREED THAT THE TOWN HAS FLIP FLOPPED.
THAT WAS ANOTHER TERM THAT WAS USED.
WE HAVE GATHERED MORE INFORMATION THROUGHOUT THE MONTHS AND CONDITIONS MAY HAVE CHANGED, BUT I DON'T THINK FLIP FLOPPING IS A PROPER WAY TO CLARIFY WHAT HAS BEEN DONE.
ANOTHER REASON OUR CONDITIONS MAY HAVE CHANGED IS THAT FOR MONTHS WE HAD BEEN MAKING INFORMATION REQUESTS TO THE APPLICANT, WHICH HAVE EITHER NOT BEEN SHARED OR WERE SHARED MUCH LATER THAN WE'VE MADE THOSE REQUESTS OR STILL HAVE NOT BEEN SHARED TO THIS DATE.
SO IT IS HARD TO MAKE A LIST OF CONDITIONS WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION TO BE SOUGHT AND THAT INFORMATION IS SHARED OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
I'D LIKE TO QUICKLY ADDRESS THE MONITORING SITUATION AND PUT IT ON THE RECORD AND REMIND THE BOARD THAT ON THE SEPTEMBER 7TH MEETING, THEY ALL DID SIGN A DOCUMENT AGREEING TO MONITORING THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS.
THEY THEREAFTER CAME UP TO US AND SAID IT WAS BECOMING TOO EXPENSIVE AND THAT SOMEONE WAS NOT NEEDED FULL-TIME.
THE MONITOR WAS THEN PULLED FROM THE SITE FULL-TIME.
IN FACT, I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A MONITOR THERE FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AT ALL.
UM, NOW I HAD MADE THE REQUEST THAT THE MONITOR GO FOR JUST A FEW HOURS A WEEK.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT PROCESS HAS BEGUN AGAIN.
[01:15:01]
WE DO RECOGNIZE THAT IF THEY HAD EXCESSIVE COSTS, WE WANTED TO REDUCE THEM, BE FAIR AND REASONABLE WORK COOPERATIVELY MOVING FORWARD.I DO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WITH ALL DUE RESPECT TO THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM PAW CROSSED THAT THE TOWN MUST ENFORCE SAFETY PROVISIONS TO ALL ITS RESIDENTS, EVEN IF SOME OF THE RESIDENTS DO NOT AGREE WITH OUR DETERMINATIONS.
THERE WAS ALSO A COMMENT MADE ABOUT THEY WOULDN'T WANT ANY OTHER NEIGHBOR.
WE ARE NOT LOOKING TO HAVE BAIL REMOVED FROM THE PROPERTY.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING FOR FAIR AND REASONABLE CONDITIONS TO BE PUT ON THE PROPERTY MOVING FORWARD.
UH, BEFORE I LET THE OTHER SPEAK, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT THERE IS A LOT TO DIGEST HERE.
THIS HAS BEEN A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE BOARD MEMBERS HAD REQUESTED A COMPARATIVE LIST OF JUST THE CONDITIONS.
I THINK THAT WAS A GREAT IDEA BECAUSE I THINK IT DOES COME DOWN TO DIFF FEW DIFFERENCES THAT WE JUST DISAGREE AT THIS POINT.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEM SIDE BY SIDE, I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S THAT MANY, ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO WHERE WE BEGAN SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.
SO I WILL, I HAD MORE TO SAY, BUT SINCE YOU ADJOURNED THE STOP WORK ORDER AND, AND, UH, NON-RENEWAL, I WON'T SPEAK ON THOSE TONIGHT AND I'LL ASK THAT, UH, LIZ GARRITY GIVE OUR PRESENTATION.
ARE YOU USING THAT COMPUTER OR, YEP.
WILL YOU BOTH PHRASE YOUR RIGHT HAND? DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO.
UM, I JUST WANNA PUT ON THE RECORD THAT THE MONITOR, UM, IS HERE, THERE, UM, JUST VIA ZOOM.
UM, SO CAN YOU STATE WHO IS FROM THE MONITOR? UH, UH, GUY ELLO AND, UH, JOE ELLI, UH, FROM KEL DEN SESSIONS.
SORRY, THE, IS THAT YOU I DID NOT ASK ABOUT THE MONITOR.
MY NAME IS, UH, ELIZABETH GARR.
I'M THE DEPUTY BUILDING INSPECTOR FOR THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
UM, WE'RE HERE TONIGHT, UM, BECAUSE WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE DALE FORWARD AND GET THEIR SPECIAL PERMIT.
GRANTED, WE'RE JUST ASKING TO HAVE IT GRANTED WITH SAFETY CONDITIONS THAT THE TOWN FEELS VERY STRONGLY ARE NEEDED TO ALLOW THIS, UM, WHAT THEY WANT, UM, IN A LIMITED MANNER TO MOVE FORWARD.
JASON AND I HAVE WORKED, UM, HUNDREDS OF HOURS, UH, LOOKING AT THIS PROJECT, REVIEWING THE PROJECT, RESEARCHING THE PROJECT, MEETING WITH THE APPLICANTS ONSITE ZOOM, UM, AT TOWN HALL.
SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, ALTHOUGH, UM, MR. SIMONS DID A VERY GOOD JOB AT PROVIDING A HISTORY.
IT STARTED ACTUALLY, UM, ROBERT MARTIN WAS USING THE, THE SITE THEY WERE BLASTING, AND THERE'S BEEN STORIES ABOUT THE ROCKS GOING ON TO THE SAW MILL RIVER ROAD AND GOING INTO ADJOINING AREAS.
SO THE SITE WAS USED AS AN EXCAVATION, UM, SITE SINCE THE EARLY EIGHTIES.
AND A PERMIT WAS GRANTED BY THE TOWN TO USE THE SITE IN THE EIGHTIES IN 2001.
UM, WHEN IT BECAME KNOWN TO THE TOWN THAT ROBERT MARTIN WAS NO LONGER USING THE SITE FOR THEMSELVES, BUT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES WITH DALE, A NOTICE OF VIOLATION WAS ISSUED FOR A SPECIAL PERMIT.
SO THAT WAS IN 2001, WHICH STARTED THE SITE.
THIS IS, UM, KIND OF A PIXELATED VERSION, BUT THIS IS THE SITE, WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE IN THE CONDITIONS.
UM, IN 2000, IF YOU JUST NOTE THERE'S SOME LIMITED, UM, PILES WHERE THE LARGE PILE IS ON THE, THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.
APPLICANT WENT TO THE ZONING BOARD, THEY RECEIVED A SPECIAL PERMIT, WHICH WE'RE ALL FAMILIAR WITH.
IN RED ARE THE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS, WHICH WERE, UM, THE 30 FEET HEIGHT, 15,000 CUBIC YARDS.
THOSE HAVE BEEN, UM, JUST AT ISSUE.
HERE IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2001.
AGAIN, IT WAS A VERY SMALL SITE AT THE TIME WHEN IT WAS APPROVED.
SO EVERY YEAR, UM, THEY ALL WOULD SEND AFTER THEY GOT THEIR APPROVAL.
UH, ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN IS RENEWAL REQUEST.
UM, FORMER BUILDING INSPECTORS, A LADO AND FTA WOULD REVIEW THE REQUEST AND RESPOND IN WRITING.
[01:20:01]
WAS IN 2021.IN 2019, FORMER BUILDING INSPECTOR RIE TO ISSUED A VIOLATION NOTICE.
AND HERE'S A GOOGLE IMAGE OF WHAT THE SITE LOOKED LIKE THEN FOR VERY SIMILAR VIOLATIONS THAT WERE RECEIVED RECENTLY, UM, FROM THE CURRENT BUILDING INSPECTOR FOR VIOLATING THE STOP, UH, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT OF OH 1 35 IN JUNE, JUNE, 2022.
THIS IS WHAT THE SITE LOOKED LIKE WHEN ROBERT DAM WAS THE BUILDING INSPECTOR WHO ALSO ISSUED A VIOLATION NOTICE TO FAIL FOR EXCESSIVE PILE HEIGHTS AND QUANTITIES OF MATERIAL.
IT'S A COPY OF THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION THAT MR. UH, FORMER BUILDING INSPECTOR ROBERT DAM ISSUED IN MAY, 2023.
CURRENT BUILDING INSPECTOR FRANK MODO WAS AT THE SITE OBSERVED, UM, EXCESSIVE PILES ALONG THE ROADWAY, WHICH IS ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE TRUCKS, UM, AND THE ROCK FACE ESTIMATED PROBABLY, UM, 50 FEET DEPENDING ON HOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT.
GOOGLE IMAGE FROM 2023 AND THEN THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION THAT THE APPLICANT NEVER RESPONDED TO STOP WORK ORDER WAS ISSUED IN JULY OF 2023 AFTER THERE WAS NO RESPONSE TO THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
IF YOU NOTICE THE SMALL FIGURES AT THE BOTTOM, THAT IS THE SITE.
UM, THOSE ARE THE WORKERS AND AT THE TOP OF THE SITE.
SO YOU CAN JUST SEE SCALE WISE WHAT IS YES, AND HOW, HOW MUCH TIME HAD PASSED BETWEEN THE NOTICE OF VIOLATION AND THE STOP WORK ORDER BEING ISSUED APPROXIMATELY 45 DAYS.
OKAY, SO I JUST WANT THE RECORD TO REFLECT THAT AT THAT POINT, THE ISSUES WERE NOT ONLY NOT REMEDIED, BUT THERE WAS ALSO NO CORRESPONDENCE FROM FAIL TO THE TOWN TO BE AT LEAST SHOW GOOD FAITH EFFORTS TO REMEDY THOSE CONDITIONS.
UM, WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN NOW IS A COMPARISON THAT WAS DONE BY OUR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT BETWEEN THE 2001 SITE PLAN TO THE 2023 SITE PLAN, WHICH WE'VE PREVIOUSLY SHARED WITH THE APPLICANT, JUST SHOWING HOW THE, THE SITE HAS EXPANDED SINCE THEN.
NOW JASON, YOU'LL HAVE TO DO THIS.
OH, UH, I THINK IT'S JUST SHARING THE, OKAY.
SO, UM, ONE QUICK FIX IS TO HIT STOP SHARE IN THE RED MM-HMM,
AND THEN, UH, SHARE SCREEN ON THE GREEN ON THE BOTTOM AND THEN SELECT, UH, THAT, AND THEN SHARE.
THIS IS A, A SOMETHING I'VE ALSO SHARED WITH THE APPLICANTS.
THIS IS WESTCHESTER COUNTY GIS SLIDE TOOL, WHICH YOU CAN TAKE ANY TWO YEARS, UM, AT ANY GIVEN TIME.
AND COMPARE THE TWO USING A SLIDE TOOL.
AGAIN, ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE YOU'LL SEE THE 2000, UM, AND ONE SITE AS IT EXISTED.
AND ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, AS I SLIDE OVER, YOU'LL SEE IT MORPH INTO WHAT IT BECAME TODAY.
SO YOU CAN SEE THAT ON THE UPPER PORTION OF THE SCREEN WHERE IT WAS TREES AND VEGETATION IS NOW, UM, THE PILE THAT WAS USED AND TOWARDS THE BACK AND, UH, TOWARDS CAUSE CROSS THE PILE IS EXPANDED OUT.
ALSO, THERE'S, UM, RELOCATABLE, UM, BUILDINGS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN, UH, ELECTRICAL PLUMBING.
UM, OTHER IMPROVEMENTS WERE MADE TO THE SITE ROADWAY TOO, AND THE, THE ROADWAY WAS EXPANDED.
SO I THINK THIS IS JUST A USEFUL, UM, FOR THE BOARD, UM, AND FOR THE AUDIENCE TO SEE THAT THE, THE CHANGE IN SIGHT OVER THE YEARS.
THIS ONE TO THE LEFT OF THAT, YES, THE SCREEN DOWN.
SO, 2003 SITE PLAN, WHICH THE APPLICANT SUBMITTED.
UM, THEY DO SHOW, UH, ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE CLOSEST TO PAUSE CROSS THAT THEY HAVE MOVED BACK ON THEIR OWN THE PILE'S 25 FEET, WHICH WOULD THEY, WE ASKED THEM AND THEY, THEY DID, UM, TO THE FRONT.
THEY'VE, UM, MOVED SOME OF THE PILES BACK.
UM, THEY'VE LIMITED AND TOOK DOWN A MAJORITY OF THE LARGE PILE.
UM, UH, WE WERE OUT AT THE SITE NOT THAT LONG AGO, AND IT IS, UM, THERE'S A BLUE MARK THAT JEFF HAD POINTED OUT THAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THE, UM, 30 FOOT MARK.
UM, BUT AGAIN, THE STIPULATED AGREEMENT, THIS IS AGAIN FROM SEPTEMBER 7TH, AND THIS IS WHAT WAS AGREED TO.
ACCORDING TO OUR MONITOR, WHO, AGAIN IS ON THE CALL, UM, BACK IN SEPTEMBER, THEY WERE NOT DOWN TO THE 30 FOOT HEIGHT.
[01:25:01]
UM, THE APPLICANT SPRAY PAINTED BLUE LINE ON THE ROCK FACE IS NOW 30 FEET.THE HOURS OF OPERATION, THE, THE MONITORS WERE, UM, UNABLE TO OBTAIN MANIFEST.
SO THEY WEREN'T SURE WHO WAS COMING FROM CONED, BUT THEY WERE ABLE TO WRITE DOWN TRUCK NAMES AND NUMBERS.
UM, WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT SATURDAYS.
THE, UM, THE MONITORS WEREN'T PROVIDED ENOUGH INFORMATION TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.
PICKING UP MATERIALS ON SATURDAYS.
AGAIN, THE MONITOR WAS UNABLE TO GAIN THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T TELL WHAT TRUCKS WERE FROM CONED AND WHO IT WASN'T.
UM, THE HOURS OF OPERATION, UM, BASED ON THE 2002 NOISE STUDY PROCESSING LIKELY VIOLATES THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
UM, SO 6:00 AM TO 3:00 PM BASED ON THE 2002 NOISE STUDY THAT IS IN THE RECORD, IT WOULD VIOLATE THE NOISE ORDINANCE, UM, FAIL HANG.
CAN I, CAN I JUST POINT OUT THAT WE HAVE REQUESTED MORE RECENT NOISE STUDIES TO BE DONE AND THEY HAVE NOT PROVIDED ANY INFORMATION TO SHOW THAT THE INFORMATION FROM 2002 IS NOT ACCURATE.
SO THAT'S WHY WE SAY LIKELY WE'RE UNSURE, BUT WE HAVE SOUGHT THAT INFORMATION AND HAS NOT BEEN PROVIDED.
UM, THE 15,000 CUBIC YARDS OF MATERIAL IS CURRENTLY VIOLATING BASED ON OUR, UM, OUR SURVEY THAT WE'VE GOTTEN IS 40,015 AS OF DECEMBER 28TH.
ACCORDING TO THE MONITOR, THEY TOOK PHOTOS THAT ASPHALT WAS BEING ACCEPTED, UM, AT A TIME THAT THEY SAID THEY WEREN'T, UM, PERMIT APPLICATIONS.
THE PERMITS, I I, THIS IS CORRECT, THE PERMITS WERE FILED, THEY'RE JUST ON HOLD.
UM, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THE APPLICANT TO PERFECT THE APPLICATIONS AND THEY'RE WELL, UM, MOVING TOWARDS DOING THAT.
UM, THE MONITOR WAS DIRECTED TO LEAVE THE SITE, UM, FOR VARIOUS REASONS AND THEY'VE BEEN REMAINING OUTSIDE, SO IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE.
AND I KNOW BOTH THE, YOU KNOW, GUY AND JOE ARE ON ZOOM.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE ANY FURTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THAT.
IF THEY ARE, CAN THEY JUST JUMP ON THROUGH IT? THEY WOULD'VE THE ABILITY TO UNMUTE IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.
SO, UM, THE MONITOR, THIS IS THE DRONE SHOT.
THEY TOOK THE SITE IN SEPTEMBER AS IT LOOKED.
UM, THE REPORTING QUANTITIES ACCORDING TO WAR CARPENTER FROM SEPTEMBER 14TH WAS 46,890 TOTAL CUBIC YARDS.
CURRENTLY DECEMBER 28TH IT'S AT 40,015.
SO IT HASN'T GONE DOWN TREMENDOUSLY.
AND AGAIN, I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE TOWN STAFF, WE ARE LOOKING NOT TO RESTRICT CUBIC YARDS EVEN THOUGH IT'S INDICATED ON HERE.
WE ARE JUST LOOKING TO KEEP THE PILE HEIGHTS AND THE ANGLE OF REPOSE RECORDED SO THAT IT CAN BE MEASURED WITH CONDITION ONE.
AND AS DAVID HAS SUGGESTED, WE PROVIDED THE CONDITIONS, UM, TO THE BOARD THAT WE'RE RECOMMENDING.
AND I'D JUST LIKE TO, TO RUN DOWN THEM.
SO CONDITION ONE IS FOR NOISE.
WE ARE NOT ATTEMPTING, NOR ARE RECONDITIONING SPECIFIC HOURS OF OPERATION UNDER THE, UM, HOURS OF OPERATION CANNOT BE REGULATED BECAUSE IT'S FOR INTERNAL OPERATIONS OF THE SITE.
HOWEVER, UNDER OUR GENERAL GENERAL POLICE POWERS UNDER THE NOISE ORDINANCE PROCESSING AND ANYTHING THAT EXCEEDS THE DECIBEL LEVELS WOULD VIOLATE AND RESTRICT THE HOURS OF OPERATION.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT DOWN BELOW WHERE IT'S A LITTLE BLURRY IS FROM THE 2002 NOISE STUDY THAT SHOWS WITH PLANT OPERATION IS BETWEEN 65.1 AND 67 AND R TWO.
UM, THAT WAS AT, UM, WAREHOUSE LANE RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE SITE.
R ONE IS AT THE SITE'S WHERE THE, THE PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS WHERE THE POLICE WOULD MEASURE, AND IT'S AT 60 73 0.1 TO 76 DECIBEL LEVELS.
AND AGAIN, I JUST WANNA POINT OUT THAT IS IN 2002, WE HAVE REQUESTED THE APPLICANT TO PROVIDE AN AN UPDATED NOISE STUDY, RECOMMENDED CONDITION.
TWO, THE APPLICANT SHOULD NOT BLOCK, INTERFERE OR OTHERWISE OBSTRUCT THE ACCESS TO A HUNDRED SOUTH WAREHOUSE LANE.
WE ARE NOT DOING THAT JUST FOR PAUSE CROSS IS TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF PEDESTRIANS AND VEHICLES USING THE ACCESS WAY THAT NO MATERIALS BE STORED WITHIN 10 FEET OF THE ACCESS WAY OR THE VILLAGE.
THE VILLAGE OF ELMSFORD ALSO HAS PROPERTY THAT'S USE, USES THAT ACCESS ROAD.
AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PICTURE, YOU HAVE A BICYCLIST THAT IS GOING ALONGSIDE THE, UM, THE SITE.
SO IT'S NOT JUST PAUSE CROSSED.
UM, WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING TO PROTECT ANYBODY, UM, THAT IS USING THAT ACCESS WAY.
UM, ANOTHER THING I JUST WANNA POINT OUT, THE VEHICLES THAT ARE PARKED THERE, I'M NOT SURE THEY'RE NOT, IF THEY'RE COMMONLY USED BY THE EMPLOYEES, UM, OF THA TO PARK ALONG THE ACCESS WAY, WHICH IS UM, WOULD FURTHER CHOKE DOWN ANY, UM, AND MOVE PEOPLE CLOSER TOWARDS
[01:30:01]
THE SITE.THIS IS ANOTHER IMAGE FROM MARCH SHOWING, UM, THE STOCKPILES THAT ARE JUST BEING SUPPORTED BY A JERSEY BARRIER.
AGAIN, A PIECE OF EQUIPMENT THAT IS OPERATING VERY CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE ACCESS WAY.
THESE ARE AFTER THE IMPROVEMENTS.
THIS IS A PICTURE THAT I TOOK IN, UM, DECEMBER 31ST SHOWING HOW CLOSE THE, UM, PILES ARE TO THE ACCESS WAY AGAIN, THE MACHINERY, THE STOCKPILES.
AND THIS IS A VIDEO THAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO THE BOARD, UM, IN JUST ASSESSING THE SAFETY OF THE SITE, WHAT CAN POTENTIALLY HAPPEN, UM, HOW YOU GET BACK TO THAT, JOE.
OKAY, SO, UH, SHARE SCREEN AND YEAH, GET BACK TO THE POWERPOINT.
WHAT HAPPENED? OKAY, IF YOU GET BACK TO THE, UH, YOU HAVE TO CLICK ON THE BOTTOM IN THE PLAY, IT SHOULD GO.
SO THIS IS ONTARIO STONE STANDING GRAVEL.
AS YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN, THEY, UM, PUT THIS VIDEO, WHICH IS, I FOUND IT VERY INFORMATIVE.
UM, IT'S AN ACTUAL QUARRY IT WOULD TAKE OF THIS MATERIAL TO PUT ENOUGH PRESSURE ON YOUR CHEST TO SUFFOCATE, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AN AWFUL LOT OF WEIGHT ON YOUR CHEST, OR YOU TAKE THAT LAST BREATH OUT AND YOU CAN'T GET BREATH IN.
BUT ONE OF THE MOST SEEMINGLY BENIGN ELEMENTS OF A PIT OR QUARRY CAN ACTUALLY BE AMONG THE MOST HAZARDOUS STOCKPILES.
BUT THEY WEREN'T ALWAYS SEEN AS A THREAT WHEN I WAS YOUNGER AND THEY COULD COME TO WORK WITH MY FATHER, I'D SPEND THE DAY CLIMBING UP THE STOCKPILES AND ROLLING DOWN.
NEVER THOUGHT ONCE OR TWICE OF THAT, A TOP NEVER WOULD NEVER PUT ANYBODY ON A STOCK AND WHATEVER.
SO WHY ARE STOCKPILES SO DANGEROUS IN WORD GRAVITY? PITS AND QUARRIES PRODUCE ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT PRODUCTS FROM FINE SAND RIGHT UP TO LARGER ROCKS.
EACH ONE ACTUALLY ACTS DIFFERENTLY WHEN WE PILOT WITH ITS OWN UNIQUE NATURAL RESTING STATE.
THIS IS CALLED THE ANGLE OF REPOSE.
AND WHEN YOU CAN SEE THE CONVEYOR, THE THE SAND OR THE, THE GRAVEL PRODUCT IS COMING OFF OF THE CONVEYORS DROPPING.
UM, AND IT'S FORMING LIKE THE PYRAMID AS IT'S FALLING.
REPO AND SAND WILL SIT AT A DIFFERENT ANGLE.
THAT GRAVEL OF COARSED SAND RESTS AT 32 DEGREES.
VINE CRUSHED STONE AT 30 DEGREES AND COARSER CRUSHED STONE AT ABOUT 27 DEGREES.
THE BIGGER PIECES TEND TO WALK TOGETHER A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY IN SMALLER PIECES.
SO A STOCK STOCKPILE LIKE THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE STABLE BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE HAVE LOCKED TOGETHER AND WOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A STEEPER ANGLE OF PROPOSED.
THERE ARE NO FINES IN HERE, SO THE WEATHER REALLY DOESN'T HAVE ANY EFFECT WHATSOEVER ON THIS MATERIAL SLIDING OR THE ANGLE OF PROPOSED CHANGING ONCE IT IS PUT IN THE STOCKPILE.
LIKE THIS, IN THIS INDUSTRY, CONDITIONS ARE ALWAYS CHANGING AND YOU KNOW, WITH THE WEATHER, WITH THE HEAT, UH, WITH WIND, IT, IT CAN BE A DIFFERENT BALL GAME, YOU KNOW, EVERY DAY.
IN FACT, WEATHER AND ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS AFFECT EVERY PRODUCT A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.
ONE THING THAT CAN DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THE WAY THINGS REACT IS WATER.
FOR EXAMPLE, DRY SAND RESTS NATURALLY AT ABOUT 32 DEGREES, BUT EVEN A LIGHT RAIN WILL DAMPEN IT AND ACT AS A BINDER, ALLOWING IT TO REST AT A MUCH STEEPER 40 DEGREES.
AND THAT CAN MAKE THINGS UNSTABLE.
SO NOT TWO MINUTES AGO, THIS PILE WAS HANGING UP WHERE THE TOP OF THIS PILE IS RIGHT NOW, AND ALL OF THIS LET GO.
AND NOW THE BASE IS 20, 25 FEET OUT FROM WHERE IT WAS WHEN WE STARTED WALKING OVER THIS WAY.
IF ANYBODY HAD BEEN IN THERE WHEN THAT LET GO, AND IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU ANY WARNING THAT IT'S GOING.
LIKE IF ANYBODY HAD BEEN IN THERE MAYBE
[01:35:01]
DEAD, THEY WOULD'VE BEEN BURIED AND THAT'S ALL IT'S TO, WE WOULD NOT HAVE STOOD A CHANCE TO SAVE THEM.WHEN THEY'RE WET, THE TOP LAYER LOOKS HEAVIER, SO IT LOOKS LIKE IT WON'T SHIFT, BUT AS THINGS CAN START TO DRY, CHUNKS CONFORM AND THOSE CHUNKS CAN SHIFT.
YOU CAN SEE IT DRIBBLING DOWN HERE RIGHT NOW, AND YOU CAN SEE HOW IT'S LETTING GO LIKE THAT.
THIS WILL PROBABLY CONTINUE TO FALL UNTIL THIS PILE FINDS ITS NATURAL ANGLE OF REPOSE AGAIN.
BUT WITH OUR WILDLY DIVERSE WEATHER FROM DRY AND WET AND HOT TO COLD, THERE'S NO GUARANTEE OF THAT HAPPENING, ESPECIALLY WITH OUR SUB-ZERO TEMPERATURES THAT TURN THE MOISTURE AND STOCKPILES INTO ICE IN A WEIRD TIME, THOSE PILES FREEZE ALL THE TIME.
WE'LL FREEZE, WE'LL GET THAT CRUST ON THAT ON THAT MATERIAL.
JUST ORDER CRUST
THIS TYPE OF THING BECOMES A MUCH MADE MORE MAJOR ISSUE BECAUSE YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DIG INTO THE CENTER WHICH HAS NOT FROZEN YET.
SO YOU'LL BE ABLE TO DIG THROUGH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU END UP WITH OVERHANGS AND THEN THEY HAVE TO BE BROUGHT DOWN TO BE ABLE TO WORK THAT PILE SAFELY.
OR THE EQUIPMENT OPERATOR ARE THE RISK OF THE RESERVES FALLING ON TOP OF THEM THAT SAY HEIGHT OF ANY STOCKPILE IS DETERMINED BY THE PRODUCT ITSELF.
AND CONDITIONS STANDOFF DISTANCES MUST BE MARKED AND RESPECTED AT ALL TIMES.
AS ALWAYS, IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW CLOSE YOU CAN GO, ASK ALWAYS ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION, STAY AWAY FAR ENOUGH DISTANCE AWAY THAT IF IT DOES FALL, IT'S NOT GOING HELP YOU.
AND THEN ADD SOME DISTANCE TO THAT.
STOCKPILES SHOULD BE LOCATED SO THAT LOADERS CAN OPEN ACCESS ALL AROUND EACH ONE AND CAN SAFELY APPROACH EACH PILE AT 90 DEGREES TO THE FACE TO SAFELY EXTRACT THE PRODUCT.
WE NEED TO WORK THAT THAT FILE SQUARELY ALL THE TIME SO THAT IT'S NOT EVER HANGING UP ON, HAVE HIGHER SIDES THAN OTHER SIDES.
THE SIDES ALWAYS WORK IN GENERAL AND STAYING AT THE SAME LEVEL ALL THE TIME.
BUT THE WAY HE'S BEEN USING THAT FILE NOW WHERE HE, WHERE HE THAT FIRST BUCKET,
SO IT'S NOT EXACT SAME SPOT AGAIN.
SO THAT WAS ACROSS, ACROSS OF THAT FILE.
OKAY, SO THAT VIDEO IS VERY, AT LEAST, UM, INFORMATIVE AND I THINK IT ILLUSTRATES SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT THE TOWN STAFF HAS.
ONE OF WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY THE SAFETY OF A PILE COMING DOWN AND, YOU KNOW, BEING, UH, OBVIOUSLY KILLING SOMEONE.
THE SECOND IS THAT THE PILES THAT ARE BEING ABUTTED, THE ACCESS WAY OR BEING SUPPORTED BY A JERSEY BARRIER, UM, GENERAL STOCKPILE SAFETY, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THIS VIDEO, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THAT STOCKPILE FROM 360 DEGREES AROUND AND NOT JUST PULL FROM ONE SIDE, WHICH IS THE CASE HERE, UM, MAKING THE OTHER SIDE UNSTABLE SO YOU KNOW, AND CAN COLLAPSE.
SO WE'RE NOT, UM, TRYING TO MITIGATE, UM, THE APPLICANT'S USE OF THEIR SITE.
WE'RE TRYING TO PREVENT ANY TYPE OF CATASTROPHE THAT WE CAN SEE THAT'S PREVENTABLE BY A SIMPLE CONDITION, WHICH THE APPLICANT HAS PULLED A LOT OF THE MATERIALS ALREADY AWAY AT LEAST 10 FEET FROM THE, THE ACCESS WAY OR JUST ASKING THEM TO CONTINUE THAT DOWN.
RECOMMENDED CONDITION THREE IS SOMETHING THAT THE APPLICANT PROPOSED AND THE THE TOWN HAS NO, NO COMMENT ON THIS AT ALL.
UM, I HAVE LIEUTENANT MATTHEWS, UM, WHO IS HERE.
HE IS, UM, FROM THE GREENBERG POLICE DEPARTMENT.
HE'S THE HEAD OF THE SPECIAL OPERATIONS UNIT AND TECHNICAL RESCUE.
UM, HE'S GONNA SPEAK ABOUT THE 30 FOOT PILE HEIGHTS, UM, THAT WE ARE REQUESTING THE IMPOSED AND CONTINUED ON AND CARRIED THROUGH FROM THE 2001 SPECIAL PERMIT.
UM, ALONG WITH, UM, THE ANGLES OF REPOSE, THE TYPES OF MATERIALS, AND IN EVENT THAT THERE IS A CATASTROPHE EITHER DURING OPERATIONS OR AFTER HOURS, THE, UM, HOW THE DEPARTMENT WOULD RESPOND BACK TO THAT.
UM, HERE'S A, A MEMO THAT LIEUTENANT MATTHEWS SPOKE, UH, WROTE TO THE ZONING BOARD REGARDING THIS, UH, AND THE STABILITY OF THE PILES IF YOU WANT TO SPEAK.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP? DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO.
LIEUTENANT MATTHEWS, TANYA GREENBERG POLICE.
[01:40:02]
SO, UH, I WAS ASKED TO SPEAK ABOUT THE SAFETY CONCERNS FROM THE FIRST RESPONDER POINT OF VIEW.OUR UNIT SPECIFICALLY HANDLES CONFINED SPACE OPERATIONS, TECHNICAL RESCUES WITHIN THE TOWN OF GREENBURG AND THE VILLAGES.
AS YOU SPOKE ABOUT BEFORE, WE ALREADY LOST TWO UH, EMPLOYEES TO THE TOWN IN REGARDS TO A CONFINED SPACE OPERATION.
SO WE ALL KNOW THEY'RE VERY DANGEROUS.
UH, READING FROM THE, THE DOCUMENT HERE, ALLOWING NO LIMITS ON PILES OF DEBRIS AND QUANTITY OF MATERIALS STORED AT THE SITE COULD INCLUDE WHAT OSHA CLASSIFIES AS TYPE C SOILS.
TYPE C SOILS INCLUDE GRANULAR SOILS, WHICH AS GRAVEL SAND, LUMMI SAND SUBMERGED SOILS, SOIL FROM WHICH WATER IS FREELY SEEPING AND SUBMERGED ROCK, WHICH IS NOT STABLE.
A NON-STABLE PLATFORM WOULD BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, IF NOT DOWNRIGHT IMPOSSIBLE TO RESCUE SOMEONE WHO'S TRAPPED UNDERNEATH OR FIRST RESPONDERS TO GAIN ACCESS TO MAKE, UH, THEIR WAY UP TO EVEN ATTEMPT A RESCUE OF A TRAPPED CIVILIAN OR WORKER AT THE SITE.
OTHER SAFETY CONCERNS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION FOR THE, FROM THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT, UH, SPECIFIC SAFETY CONCERNS WITH THE STORAGE OF DIESEL FUEL, MULTIPLE TRAILERS EQUIPMENT, WHICH IS NOT CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY THE TOWN OF GREENBURG.
UM, SO THESE ARE THE MAJOR CONCERNS THAT WE HAVE.
IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF WHEN AN ACCIDENT HAPPENS AT MAJOR SITES.
UH, IT, IT'S, UH, IF IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN AND WE WANT TO DO IS MAKE SURE THIS SITE IS SAFE ENOUGH FOR THE WORKERS AS WELL AS THE FIRST RESPONDERS ARE COMING TO PROVIDE FIRST AID AND RESCUE CARE.
UH, IT'S PROPER SIGNAGE, SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS PROPER SIGNAGE MARKING SECTIONS IN THE LOT.
SOMEONE COULD STAND THERE AND CALL 9 1 1 ALL DAY.
IF WE CAN'T FIND YOU WHERE YOU ARE IN THE YARD, WE CAN'T COME AND HELP YOU.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY WITH SOME OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WE'VE SEEN AND SOME OF, UH, SOME OF THE VIDEOS PROVIDED BY THE TOWN, UM, WE'D BE WORKING MORE WHAT WE CALL A RECOVERY OF A BODY RATHER THAN A RESCUE OF A LIVE HUMAN BEING.
AND THE TOWN OF GREENBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT WISHES THAT SOME OF THESE SAFETY CONCERNS ARE ADDRESSED AND ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY.
SO WE CAN HELP PROVIDE ANY FIRST RESPONDER CARE TO, AGAIN, PASSENGERS BY CITIZENS USING THE BIKE PATH OR ANY OF THE EMPLOYEES AT THE OF THE, UH, THARE CORPORATION.
SO THIS IS THE BLUE MARKING THAT, UM, JEFF HAD POINTED OUT, UM, THAT, AND THAT DE MARK'S THE'S, UM, 30 FOOT MARK.
THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT 30 FOOT MARK IS TAKEN FROM THE GRADE THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BY THE, SO AT SOME POINT THE GRADE WAS RAISED FROM THE ACCESS WAY OVER THE YEARS.
UM, PHIL WAS BROUGHT IN, UM, WHICH THE APPLICANT IS AND CONSENTED TO CONSIDER, UM, AS PART OF THEIR STOCKPILE MATERIALS.
SO WHEN HEIGHT AND ANGLE OF REPOSE ARE BEING MEASURED, IT SHOULD BE MEASURED FROM THE ACCESS WAY AND NOT THE RAISED GRADE.
IF IT IS GOING TO BE MEASURED FROM THE RAISED GRADE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO OBTAIN A FILL PERMIT FROM THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT FOR THE MATERIALS THAT WERE BROUGHT IN.
SO I'LL LET JASON SPEAK TO, UM, THE ANGLES OF REPOSE AND THE TYPE OF MATERIALS.
SO, UM, ANGLES OF REPOSE, AS YOU SAW IN THE VIDEO, ARE THE NATURAL, YOU KNOW, GRAVITATE GRAVITY LIMITING, YOU KNOW, ANGLE OF THE PILE.
UM, THESE PICTURES WERE TAKEN, UM, THEY BASICALLY SHOW THAT THE STEEPER THAN THE, THE RECOMMENDED ANGLES AND THOSE GROOVES IN THE SLOPE ARE CAUSED FROM EROSION.
BASICALLY, THE, THE WATER THAT RUNS DOWN CAUSES THESE RAILINGS IN THE SLOPE, AND THEN ALL THE MATERIAL THAT WAS IN THOSE GROOVES END UP ON THE ROAD OR, YOU KNOW, IN SOMO RIVER OR NEARBY PROPERTIES.
BASICALLY, AGAIN, THIS IS THE, IT'S IT'S MORE OF THE SAME, UM, ANGLE OF REPOSE IS DETERMINED BY THE MATERIAL AND, YOU KNOW, YOU PICK A HEIGHT, YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR ANGLE AND YOU DO A VOLUME FOR THE CONE, AND THAT'S THE VOLUME OF THE PILE.
CAN YOU GO BACK ONE SLIDE? SORRY.
SO, SO JASON, THE POT, THE PILE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE VERSUS THE PILE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.
SO WHEN YOU HAVE A LE A SMALLER ANGLE OR SHALLOW ANGLE, THERE'S LESS OF A CHANCE THAT THE SAW WILL BECOME EROSIVE AND THEN THE, THE CHANCES OF IT ENDING UP, ENDING UP OTHER THAN IN THAT PILE ARE MUCH, MUCH REDUCED.
SO WHAT WE'RE ASKING, AND AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THIS PICTURE, A LOT OF THE MATERIAL, UM, HAS BEEN MOVED AWAY FROM THE ACCESS WAY, WHICH WE ARE VERY PLEASED TO SEE.
UM, THERE IS SOME STORAGE OF CONSTRUCTION, UH, EQUIPMENT AND TOWARDS THE, UH, WHERE THE TELEPHONE POLE
[01:45:01]
IS ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE SCREEN, THE MATERIAL THEN STARTS TO COME BACK TOWARDS THE, THE ACCESS WAY.THESE ARE JUST SOME PHOTOS NOT FROM FAIL OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN, YOU KNOW EQUIPMENT IS STORED NEAR PATHS OF TRAVEL.
UM, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT OBVIOUSLY WE DO NOT WANNA SEE RECOMMENDED CONDITION FIVE IS TO PROCESSING OF UNCONTAMINATED ROCK MATERIAL FROM ROAD EXCAVATIONS.
AND THE REASON WHY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE PUT IN ROAD EXCAVATIONS IS BECAUSE WE HAVE RECEIVED NOT ONLY SEEING THE, UM, VAC TRUCK COMING IN, DEPOSITING LIQUID MATERIALS, BUT WE HAVE, UM, THROUGH THE DE'S ANNUAL REPORTS OTHER, UM, TANK REMOVAL, GASOLINE TANK REMOVAL COMPANIES THAT ARE, UM, CLIENTS OF THE'S AND NOT ONLY PURCHASE MATERIALS, BUT THEY DEPOSIT MATERIALS THERE.
SO IN THIS SLIDE, UM, THERE'S TWO COMPANIES THAT ARE OIL TANK REMOVAL COMPANIES.
THEY EXCAVATE, REMOVE, UM, OIL FROM THE SITE AND THEY ARE RANKED AS 10 AND 17 UNDER THAS CUSTOMERS.
THIS IS WHAT, UH, MR. SIMONS HAD REFERENCED.
THIS IS A FILL, UM, I'LL LET JASON SPEAK TO THAT.
SO EVERY NOW AND THEN WE'LL GET A FULL PERMIT THAT COMES IN.
AND PART OF THE FULL PERMIT PROCESS IS WE, WE ASK FOR WHERE THE SOIL'S COMING FROM AND A TESTING REPORT ON THAT SOIL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SOIL MEETS THE RESIDENTIAL STANDARDS IF IT'S A RESIDENT OR COMMERCIAL STANDARDS, IF IT'S A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.
THIS WAS A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY.
THEY SENT THIS TEST RESULTS AND THEY WERE SHOWN TO BE EXCEEDING IN LEVELS OF DVT BASED ON THE DER 10 STANDARDS.
SO THE ASPHALT, UM, WE'VE HAD A HEARD A LOT ABOUT ASPHALT.
WE HAVE QUITE A FEW CONCERNS ABOUT ASPHALT, BUT NOT SO MUCH.
UM, AS THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING HAS PUT FORTH, THERE ARE MATERIALS, NOT PURE ASPHALT, BUT MATERIALS THAT ARE USED TO SEAL ASPHALT THAT ARE CARCINOGENIC.
UM, RECLAIMED ASPHALT PAVEMENT OF, OR ASPHALT MILLINGS ARE ALSO UNDER SAFETY DATA SHEETS CARCINOGENIC.
UM, WE HAVE OTHER REPORTS THAT SHOW, UM, WHEN RAP, THE RECYCLED ASPHALT PRODUCT IS STORED IN PILES.
IT CAN GO INTO THE GROUNDWATER.
THERE ARE MATERIALS THAT ARE ON THE SITE, UM, THAT MOVE TOWARDS, UM, GROUNDWATER.
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST THE LEACHING ANALYSIS.
THIS WAS DONE BY AN ENGINEERING COMPANY JUST SHOWING THAT, UM, BASICALLY THE DIFFERENT ITEMS LIKE NICKEL, OTHER ITEMS CAN GO INTO THE GROUNDWATER.
HERE IS THE PICTURE OF OUR LIQUID WASTE THAT, UM, CANNOT BE VISUALLY OR SMELL TESTED, UM, UNTIL IT IS DUMPED ALREADY ON THE SITE.
THEY DO NOT CARRY HEAVY MATERIALS SUCH AS SOILS, GRAVELS, ROCKS, ET CETERA, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE REQUESTING THAT THEY NOT BE PERMITTED TO BE ALLOWED TO DEPOSIT MATERIALS ON THE SITE.
AND WE ARE NOT RESTRICTING THE APPLICANT FROM BRINGING IN ASALT AS PART OF MIXED LOADS.
WE'RE JUST ASKING THAT THEY KEEP THEM IN A CONTAINED SITE WHEN PREPARING TO MOVE TO, UM, THEIR EITHER FISH GILL OR OTHER FACILITY.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE MONITORS PHOTOS THAT WERE TAKING, UM, WHILE THEY WERE ON THE SITE, WHICH HAS OBVIOUSLY ON THE PHOTO ON THE LEFT IS A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
AGAIN, THIS IS DURING THE MONITORS WHEN DELIVERY OF THE ASPHALT WAS SAID NOT TO BE OCCURRING.
ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THAT'S ASPHALT ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE LOOKS LIKE, UM, A MIXED LOAD OF DIRT AND ROCK RECOMMENDED CONDITION.
SIX IS CONTAMINATED MATERIALS.
WE INCLUDING LIQUID WASTE MIX, LIQUID LOADS, SEPTIC SEWAGE, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, WHICH THE APPLICANT HAS NO ISSUE WITH.
UM, THEY, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY WHAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IS, UM, EVEN IF THEY ARE VISUALLY AND ODOR TESTING, WHAT IF SOMETHING GETS PAST THE GOALIE? WHAT IF THERE IS CONTAMINATED MATERIAL THAT'S PUT ON THAT SITE AND NOT, NOT ALL CONTAMINANTS SMELL.
SO THERE, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A CONCERN THERE.
UM, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE MONITOR REPORTED BACK TO US THAT THE VAC TRUCK DEPOSITED MATERIALS, THE MACHINE QUICKLY SCOOPS IT UP AND MIXES IT INTO THE PILE OF DIRT AND THERE WAS NOBODY THERE SMELL TESTING OR VISUALLY INSPECTING WHAT WAS BEING DUMPED.
UM, ALL THE VEHICLES LEAVING THE SITE, UM, SHOULD NOT HAVE A MAXIMUM LOAD RATING.
THE, UM, THE APPLICANT, UH, IS NOT RESPONSIBLE CERTAINLY FOR THE TRUCKERS CARRYING THE PROPER LOAD THAT'S UP TO THE TRUCKER.
HOWEVER, THE, UM, TRUCKS ENTERING THE SITE AND LEAVING THE SITE HAVE TO CROSS
[01:50:01]
A A BRIDGE.THE MAXIMUM LOAD RATING OF THAT BRIDGE IS 61 TONS.
IT HAS BEEN RED FLAGGED BY THE STATE.
THE OWNERS OF THE BRIDGE IT'S PRIVATELY OWNED, ARE WORKING FOR ITS REPAIR.
UM, SO WE DO HAVE A CONCERN WITH OVERWEIGHT VEHICLES.
AND JUST TO GO BACK TO PREVIOUS SLIDE TO POINT IT OUT, IN 2002, UM, THERE WAS ABOUT 10 TO 15 TRUCKS PER DAY.
ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY, ACCORDING TO OUR MONITOR, THERE'S AN AVERAGE OF 208 TRUCKS A DAY.
NOW FROM SEPTEMBER 15TH UNTIL NOVEMBER 21ST, 3000 523 TRUCKS WENT OVER THAT BRIDGE AND OVER THAT ROADWAY AND OVER THE BIKE PATH.
SO THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT PEDESTRIAN VEHICLES INFRASTRUCTURE AND POTENTIAL CATASTROPHE WITH A BRIDGE COLLAPSING.
IT IS NOTED THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT ISSUED THE OWNERS OF THE BRIDGE A VIOLATION NOTICE, UM, DIRECTING THEM TO REMEDIATE AND REPAIR THE BRIDGE CONDITION.
UM, THE REASON FOR THIS IS THE COUNTY'S BIKE PATH.
UM, AND PRIVATE ROADWAYS, WE NEED TO STAY CLEAR FROM MUD, DIRT, DEBRIS, ANYTHING THAT'S ATTRIBUTABLE TO THE SITE.
AND THE APPLICANT HAS MADE EFFORTS USING, UM, SWEEPERS, THE SWEEPERS, UM, WASHING DOWN THE TRUCKS.
THAT'S BEEN A RECENT ADDITION, UM, PUTTING IN, UM, THE PADDING, UH, THAT'S BEEN ON THE SITE.
BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE IMAGES OF THINGS THAT WE DO NOT WANNA SEE.
UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE MUD IS JUST COMING IN AND OUT OF THE SITE.
UM, GOING UP WAREHOUSE LANE ON YOUR RIGHT HAND SIDE, THIS IS A PICTURE OF JUST THE DUST GETTING KICKED UP.
UM, AGAIN, THE BIKE TRAIL ON YOUR RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU CAN SEE THEY CROSS RIGHT OVER WHERE, UM, PEOPLE WALKING, THE DOGS WALKING, YOU KNOW, FOR ENJOYMENT USING THE BIKE PATH.
RECOMMENDED CONDITION NINE IS THE STORM WATER PRODUC POLLUTION PREVENTION PLAN SUBMISSIONS.
WE DO HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT THE STORM WATER POLLUTION, UM, THAT IS COMING OFF.
THESE ARE AFTER THE APPLICANT MADE THEIR IMPROVEMENTS TO THE SITE.
THERE IS STILL MUD RUNNING OVER INTO THE PRIVATE ROADWAYS AND IS NOT BEING CONTAINED ON THE ACCESS WAY AND GOING INTO, THAT'S WAREHOUSE WHERE? WAREHOUSE LANE.
IS THAT THE, COULD YOU GO BACK ONE? YES.
IS THAT THE ENTRANCE OF THE SITE? THAT'S THE ENTRANCE OF THE BIKE PATH ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.
SO THE BIKE PATH WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE RAISED, UM, VISUAL AIDS FOR, UM, ACCESS TO THE BIKE PATH.
THIS IS ACTUALLY THE PRIVATE ROAD WAREHOUSE LANE.
THIS IS JUST PICTURES THAT THE MONITOR TOOK OF AFTER A FLOOD, AFTER A GOOD RAIN THAT THE MUD IS GOING INTO THE, THE APPLICANT'S AREA.
AND, AND I SUGGEST THAT SINCE THE MONITORS ARE HERE, THEY SHOULD BE SWORN IN AND ATTEST TO ALL THESE PHOTOS AS WELL AT SOME POINT.
UM, MAYBE WE COULD DO THAT NOW WITH JOE AND GUY YOU WOULD LIKE TO UNMUTE YOURSELVES? I'M UNMUTED.
UM, GUY, THEY'RE JUST GONNA SQUARE YOU IN.
I LIKE THAT LITTLE PIECE YOU PUT ON THERE.
UH, IF YOU WOULD RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND GENTLEMEN, DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU GOD? I DO DO.
AND CAN, CAN YOU JUST CONFIRM THAT ALL THE PHOTOS SHOWN SO FAR THAT LIZ HAS ATTRIBUTED TO YOUR MONITORING WAS TAKEN BY YOU EITHER AT THE SITE OR NEAR THE SITE OF THERE? YEAH.
THESE ARE, THESE ARE ALL MY PICTURES, CORRECT.
SO GUY, UM, IF YOU COULD JUST, THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN AFTER THE IMPROVEMENTS WERE, WERE MADE.
UM, DO YOU REMEMBER THE STORM CONDITION THAT WHEN THE, THIS SPECIFIC PHOTO THAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW IS TAKEN? WAS IT A LIGHT? YEAH, THAT, THAT, YEAH, THAT DAY WAS WHEN WE HAD THE FLASH FLOOD.
UM, WHERE LIKE, WHAT, THREE HOURS WE HAD LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, FOUR INCHES OF RAIN, WHATEVER.
AND I, I WAS AT THE SITE AND THESE ARE THE PICTURES I TOOK ONCE THE WATER WAS, YOU KNOW, DURING THE RUNOFF.
OKAY, SO HERE'S ANO ANOTHER PHOTO.
UM, THAT'S THE SWEEPER TRUCK THAT I HAD REFERRED TO EARLIER.
UM, THE WATER, YOU COULD SEE WHERE DALE'S TRAILER IS, IS FLOWING ACROSS FROM THAT POINT INTO, UM, THEIR AREA ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, WHICH IS PART OF THEIR STORM WATER CONTROL PLAN.
THIS IS A PICTURE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE FROM THE, UM, AS THEY WERE INSTALLING THEIR, UM, STORMWATER CONTROL.
AGAIN, THE RIGHT HAND SIDE IS ANOTHER PICTURE, UM, THAT THE MONITOR, UH, GUY HAD TAKEN.
UM, JUST SHOWING THAT IT'S, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO NOTE THAT THEY HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK TOWARDS THIS IN THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.
SO AT THIS POINT, UM, AND JASON, MAYBE YOU COULD SPEAK TO THIS A LITTLE BETTER.
THERE'S AT THE FAR CORNER WHERE YOU SEE THE, UM, THAT THAT IS THE AREA WHERE THEIR, THEIR OUTLET POINT IS.
AND THE OUTLET GOES TO WHERE THE SALT RIVER.
SO THE OUTLET POINT WHERE ALL THIS WATER GOES TO, JUST TO REITERATE, IS GOING INTO
[01:55:01]
THE SAWMILL RIVER.SO ANY RUNOFF THAT IS COMING FROM THAT SITE IS GOING IN ACROSS THE ROADWAY, INTO THE DRAIN AND OUT INTO THE SAWMILL.
SO THAT IS A CONCERN THAT THE TOWN STAFF HAS.
UM, CONDITION SEVEN IS DUST CONTROL MEASURES, UM, THAT WE'RE ASKING THAT THEY INSTALL SOME TYPE OF TRUCK WASHING TO KEEP THE SITE FROM BRINGING MUD OFF THE SITE, UM, ONTO THE ROADWAY ANYWHERE, UM, OUTSIDE OF THE SITE ITSELF.
CONDITION 11, WE'RE JUST ASKING FOR THE ANNUAL REPORT CONCERNING COMPLIANCE EXACTLY THE SAME AS WE'VE BEEN DOING SINCE 2001.
UM, WE'RE ASKING TO SUBMIT THE LETTER ON OR BEFORE OCTOBER 31ST.
UM, WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THESE CONDITIONS WITH THE APPLICANT, UM, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE.
IN THE EVENT THE APPLICANT WISHES TO EXPAND THE TYPE OF INTAKE MATERIALS AND OR INCREASE OR MODIFY THE SITE'S INVENTORY OF RELOCATABLE BUILDINGS, UM, WE'RE ASKING THAT THEY RECO THEY OBTAIN AN AMENDED AMENDMENT TO THIS SPECIAL USE PERMIT SHOULD THE BOARD GRANT IT AND THEY MAY BE REQUIRED TO OBTAIN TOWN SITE PLAN APPROVAL.
BECAUSE THE PROPERTY UNDER TOWN LAW EXCEEDS FIVE ACRES, UM, BY LAW THEY HAVE TO SEEK ANY TYPE OF MODIFICATIONS TO THE SITE FROM THE TOWN BOARD.
THE APPLICANT SHALL PROVIDE ACCESS TO THE SITE FOR TOWN STAFF CONDITION 15.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, AFTER HOURS IS A CONCERN FOR EMERGENCY RESPONSE.
NOT SO MUCH WHEN THE, UM, APPLICANT IS ONSITE AND OPERATING.
WHAT THEY DO TO SECURE THE SITE IS PUT THIS TYPE OF MACHINERY BLOCKING THE ENTRANCE.
IF THERE'S AN AFTER HOUR, UM, RESPONSE THAT'S NEEDED, THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO GET INTO THE SITE EXCEPT BY GOING OVER THE JERSEY BARRIERS AND OVER THE PILES THAT ARE ALONG THE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.
THIS IS A FULL PICTURE OF, OF THIS, UM, CONDITION.
AND THIS, THIS TAKES, THIS WAS TAKEN ON, UH, DECEMBER 31ST.
SO ANOTHER CONCERN THAT, UM, THE TOWN HAS IS THERE, THERE'S A ADOPTION CENTER NEXT DOOR.
THERE'S A LOT OF KIDS THAT GO NEXT DOOR.
YOU KNOW, AS A CHILD I WOULD LIKE TO GO AND PLAY ON STOCKPILES.
IT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY CAN GET IN THERE AND IT'S, IT'S A DANGEROUS CONDITION.
SO WE, WE WANNA MAKE SURE THERE'S ACCESS OR AT LEAST EMERGENCY RESPONSE CAN GET IN THERE, SHOULD THERE SOMETHING HAPPEN AFTER HOURS AND NOBODY IS THERE TO, TO LET THEM IN.
UM, SO WE'RE JUST ASKING THAT A GATE WITH AN APPROVED LOCKBOX, BUT FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND FIRE DEPARTMENT BE PUT IN CONDITION 16.
UM, IF THE APPLICANT VOLUNTARILY AND I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT VOLUNTARILY THAT, UM, DISCONTINUES, UM, FOR MORE THAN 120 DAYS, THEY WILL BE REMOVING ALL OF THE MATERIALS FROM THE SITE AND RESTORING IT BACK TOWARDS ORIGINAL CONDITION TO THE GRADE OF THE ADJOINING ACCESS WAY.
THE APPLICANT HAS ALREADY MET, THEY'VE PULLED BACK THE MATERIALS 25 FEET FROM THE DEEDED PROPERTY LINE FROM A HUNDRED WAREHOUSE LANE.
CONDITION 18, UM, IS BASICALLY TO LEGALIZE ALL OF THE RELOCATABLE BUILDINGS THAT THE BUILDING INSPECTOR ISSUED A NOTICE OF VIOLATION FOR.
UM, THE APPLICANT AGAIN HAS BEEN WORKING TOWARDS REMEDIATING THAT.
UM, AND AS WITH ANY APPLICANT THAT HAS BEEN WORKING WITH THE TOWN AFTER A NOTICE OF VIOLATION HAS BEEN ISSUED, WE CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THEM.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT IF AN APPLICANT IS MAKING A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH THE TOWN WHICH THIS APPLICANT HAS.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE PICTURES OF THE RELOCATABLE BUILDINGS, THE DIESEL TANKS, HAZARDOUS MATERIALS, ELECTRICAL, PLUMBING AND LIGHTING THAT WAS INSTALLED ALL WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF PERMITS.
SO THEY HAVE A TEMPORARY SHELTER.
UM, THEY HAVE, UH, PLUMBING THAT HAS BEEN INSTALLED.
THEY HAVE SEVERAL RELOCATABLE BUILDINGS.
THESE ARE THE DIESEL STORAGE TANKS THAT ARE IN THE FAR END OF THE PROPERTY THAT EMERGENCY RESPONDERS WOULD HAVE TO GET TO THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY TO ACCESS.
THESE ARE 480 VOLT TRANSFORMERS THAT BOTH GO UNDERGROUND UNDER THE SITE, UM, HAVE NEVER BEEN INSPECTED.
UM, THE ELECTRIC IS BOTH UNDERGROUND AND ABOVE GROUND.
THE PLUMBING IS BOTH ABOVE GROUND AND UNDERGROUND.
SO THERE'S GONNA BE AREAS THAT ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE EXPOSED.
CURRENTLY NONE OF THESE, AND IF THIS IS ACCESSED THIS, THIS WILL KILL YOU IF IT'S TOUCHED.
UM, THERE IS NO VEHICLE IMPACT PROTECTION AROUND ANY OF THESE.
UM, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE INSTALLED.
THIS IS A CONED TRANSFORMER AGAIN.
UM, RARELY SEE THEM RAISED UP LIKE THAT.
THIS IS THE SCREENING MACHINE THAT IS LOCATED AT THE BACK OF THE PROPERTY.
UM, AGAIN, I'M JUST POINTING THIS OUT.
UM, SO ACCESS TO ANY OF THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AS WE DO OUR INSPECTIONS, THE SITE WILL HAVE TO BE CLEANED UP, BE BROUGHT UP TO STATE CODE COMPLIANCE.
UM, AGAIN, THIS IS THE SCREENER THAT'S IN THE BACK.
I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THE WATER THAT IS UNDER IT, THAT'S A LIGHT THAT'S IN THE BACK TOO, IS CONDITION 19 THAT HAS TO BE LEGALIZED
[02:00:01]
AND LOWERED TO 14 FEET BE DIRECTED AWAY FROM ADJOINING PROPERTIES AND STREETS.AND IN CONCLUSION, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE WORKED TOGETHER, UM, TOWN STAFF, GREENBERG, POLICE CONSERVATION ADVISORY COUNCIL, UM, AND WE RECOMMEND THAT THE ZBA GRANT, A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE LIMITED USE OF PROCESSING AND STORING UNCONTAMINATED ROCK AGGREGATE MIXED LOADS FROM ROAD EXCAVATIONS WITH CONDITIONS, UH, THAT I JUST PREVIOUSLY DETAILED.
COULD WE, UM, LEMME PUT THIS ON.
COULD WE JUST TAKE A COMFORT BREAK AT THIS POINT? THIS HAS BEEN QUITE LONG.
WE CAN PICK UP WHERE YOU LEAVE OFF HERE.
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THAT TO GO RECORDING IN PROGRESS.
SO LET'S HAVE THE QUESTIONS, UH, OF THE TOWN AT THIS POINT I CAN START OFF WITH, SO THANK YOU.
UM, WHERE DID YOU GUYS COME UP WITH, UM, 30 FEET, THE HEIGHT FOR THE PILES? SURE.
SO, UM, JASON, THIS, BUT 30 FEET WAS ORIGINALLY FROM NEAR BASED ON THE SITE CONFIGURATION, UM, THAT THAT WAS, UH, PUT IN ON 2001.
SO WE FELT THAT THAT WAS A SAFE HEIGHT, IT WAS SAFER ALL THE YEARS.
UM, THAT'S WHY WE STUCK WITH THE 30 FEET, CONSISTENT WITH THE 2001 SPECIAL PERMIT.
BUT YOU COULD CHANGE THE HEIGHT AND THEN YOU WOULD JUST HAVE TO CHANGE OBVIOUSLY THE OTHER FACTORS.
THE THE, THE ANGLES AND THINGS.
SO IT WOULD BE THE BASE OF THE, THE, AS THE, IT'S BEEN TESTIFIED TO, THE GEOMETRY OF THE SITE.
SO YOU'RE RESTRICTED TO THE SIZE OF THE SITE.
UM, THE ACCESS AROUND THE PILES AND THE AMOUNT THAT YOU CAN GO UP IS GOING TO HAVE TO GO OUT DEPENDING ON THE MATERIAL.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANNA SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE MORE.
IF THEY HAD A DIFFERENT PLAN AND THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT CONFIGURATION THAT THEY COULD SHOW US WORKS, WE WOULD CONSIDER THAT AS WELL.
ON THE ISSUE OF THE HEIGHTS AND THE FACT THAT, UH, THE VIDEO YOU HAD SHOWED, UM, HOW PILES CAN BE HIGHER AND BE DENSE AND BE, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MORE SAFE THAN, UM, IF THEY'RE IN A DIFFERENT, UH, MOISTURE, UH, SETTING.
SO ALL OF THIS RAIN IN THIS, WHAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING NOW FOR SOME TIME, I MEAN THIS SEEMS TO BE BUILDING OVER TIME.
HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE MATERIALS THAT ARE THERE.
IF THEY'RE GETTING THEM HIGHER AND HIGHER, BECAUSE IT'S DENSER NOW WITH THE WATER, BUT THEN SUDDENLY WE GET INTO A PART OF THE YEAR THAT THEN IT'S NOT THERE.
SO, OKAY, SO WHEN YOU ADD A LOT OF WATER TO A PILE LIKE THIS, IT BECOMES MORE STABLE AND IT'S SAFER.
BUT THEN IF YOU GET INTO A DRYER, PART OF THE AIR AND THIS, THE OUTSIDE STARTS DRYING OUT AND THE INSIDES WETTER, THE OUTSIDE WILL SLUMP OFF.
AND THE SAME THING WITH THE ICE.
YOU KNOW, IF IT FREEZES DURING, YOU KNOW, IN JANUARY YOU HAVE A SHELL THAT THE OUTSIDE FREEZES.
AND IF YOU DIG AT THAT, THE OUTSIDE SHELL WILL STAY, AND THEN THE INSIDE WILL SLUMP OUT.
AND THEN THERE'S NOTHING SUPPORTING THAT SHELL, IT'LL FALL.
SO CAN YOU SAY, ARE, ARE YOU SAYING, I GUESS, THAT THE HEIGHT THAT YOU ARE PROPOSING WOULD BE SAFE UNDER WHATEVER CONDITIONS THAT MAY COME ABOUT? I MEAN, NOTHING IS A HUNDRED PERCENT SAFE, BUT YOU WOULD TRY TO MAXIMIZE THE, THE SAFETY TO MINIMIZE THE RISK.
SO TO, TO THAT POINT, SETTING THE, ANY PILES BACK AWAY FROM THE ACCESS WAY, THAT WOULD BE NOT NEAR SOMEBODY THAT WASN'T IN A MACHINE.
SO ON THE SITE, THEY'RE OPERATING INSIDE MACHINES.
THEY'RE NOT WALKING AROUND ON THE ACCESS WAY.
THERE'S PEOPLE THAT ARE WALKING ON IT, DRIVING ON IT, THAT IF SOMETHING DID COME DOWN AND IT WAS CLOSE TO THE ACCESS WAY, THEY COULD BE SEVERELY HARMED.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE PROTECTION AS AN OPERATOR WOUND.
SO IN, IN PART IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LOCATION OF THE PILES TOO? YES.
SO THAT'S PART OF THE CONDITIONS, THE LOCATION OF THE PILES, THE PILES, HEIGHTS, THE OPERATION OF EQUIPMENT ON TOP OF THE PILES, THE PILE THAT'S AGAINST THE, THE LARGER PILE.
UM, THAT'S AGAINST THE ROCK FACE.
[02:05:01]
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT ADDRESSING THAT.THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE 30 FOOT PILE HEIGHT, WE'RE FINE WITH THAT.
UM, IT'S ALSO A SAFETY ISSUE, AS LIEUTENANT POINTED OUT, THE HIGHER THE PILES, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE AN ISSUE WITH AN EXCAVATOR COMING OVER, YOU'RE DEALING WITH A, UM, A, A DEATH AT THAT POINT.
OTHER QUESTIONS? DO YOU, I JUST HAVE ONE.
DO YOU THINK RESTRICTING THE PILE HEIGHT AT 30 FEET, IT JUST APPEARS TO ME THAT THERE, IT'S CONSTANTLY FLUCTUATING THE, THE HEIGHTS OF THE PILES, DEPENDING ON THE MATERIAL.
I MEAN, EVEN THAT VIDEO THAT YOU SHOWED, SHOWED BASICALLY ILLUSTRATED THAT, THAT THE SORT OF, DEPENDING ON WHAT, WHAT'S BEING DUMPED THERE, THE PILES COULD FLUCTUATE ANYWHERE FROM 10, 20 FEET.
I, YOU KNOW, WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD SET THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT, THAT THEY COULD GO LOWER IF THEY DO.
BUT ISN'T IT DIFFICULT TO, TO REGULATE THAT TO, I MEAN, IT, I MEAN, IT'S NOT DIFFICULT.
SO YOU CAN MEASURE IT PRETTY EASILY BY TAKING A, A LEVEL GIVES YOU AN ANGLE, AND THEN YOU COULD DO A SMALL TRIGONOMETRY EQUATION TO FIND OUT WHAT THE HEIGHT IS BASED ON THE LENGTH OF THAT PILE.
SO, SO IF YOU GET TO A CERTAIN HEIGHT AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO EXCEED THAT HEIGHT, WHAT IS THE OPTION THAT THEY'RE JUST GOING TO DUMP IT INTO A DIFFERENT PILE? OR THEY COULD JUST, YOU KNOW, TAKE A MACHINE AND KNOCK IT DOWN, SPREAD IT OUT A LITTLE BIT.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THEY COULD, THEY COULD, THEY COULD OR SPLIT THE PILE, DUMP IT UP TO, I DON'T KNOW, 40 FEET OR SOMETHING, BUT THEN YOU WANT THEM TO CUT THE PILE DOWN TO 30 AND PUT THAT MATERIAL SOMEWHERE ELSE, OR, YEAH.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD? QUESTIONS? I'M, I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED, UH, BECAUSE I, I BELIEVE, UM, THAT YOU HAD STATED THAT YOU WEREN'T OPPOSED TO THEM HAVING ASPHALT, BUT YOU WANTED IT NOT IN THIS LOCATION.
IS THAT CORRECT? SO WE'RE NOT OPPOSED TO THEM STORING THE ASPHALT.
WE JUST WANT IT TO BE CONTAINED AND THEN REMOVED.
WE JUST DO NOT WANT THE PROCESSING TO BE ON THE SITE.
SO AS PART OF THEIR, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST, UH, FAIL HAS PRESENTED ON MULTIPLE TIMES, CONED IS ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST AND, YOU KNOW, CONTINGENT TO THEIR VIABILITY, ACCORDING TO THEIR TESTIMONY.
SO THEY'LL, UH, CONED BRINGS IN ASPHALT AS PART OF THEIR MIXED LOADS FROM THE ROAD EXCAVATIONS THAT'S GOING TO BE ON THE SITE.
ONCE THEY SEPARATED OUT, IT'S TO BE PUT INTO CONTAINER AND SHIPPED OFF.
IT COULD BE STORED TEMPORARILY.
UM, WE HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THAT.
WE JUST DO NOT WANNA BE PROCESSED OR STORED WITHOUT A CONTAINMENT ON THE SITE.
I JUST HAVE ONE MORE QUESTION ON THE, UM, THE MIXED LOAD ISSUE.
UM, YOU, YOU, YOUR CONDITION STATES YOU WANT MIXED LOAD ONLY FROM ROAD EXCAVATIONS AS OPPOSED TO JUST MIXED LOAD FROM, FROM ANYTHING ELSE.
CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN WHY THAT'S SO IMPORTANT? SURE.
BECAUSE ONE OF THE SLIDES, AS YOU SAW, ONE OF THE, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEIR BIGGEST CUSTOMERS ARE OIL TANK REMOVAL COMPANIES BRINGING IN MIXED LOADS FROM AN OIL TANK REMOVAL COMPANY THAT HAD A REMEDIATION DONE THAT COULD HAVE POTENTIAL CONTAMINANTS IN IT, WHICH MAY NOT BE PICKED UP BY THE APPLICANT USING A VISUAL OR A SMELL TEST.
SO WE'RE JUST CONCERNED THAT, UM, BASED ON THEIR CUSTOMER LIST, THAT THERE ARE SOME RED FLAGS THAT WERE RAISED TO US.
SO THEY, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF CAME TO A MIDDLE GROUND BECAUSE CONED IS THERE, UM, BASICALLY WITH, FROM WHAT THEY SAID, THEIR BREAD AND BUTTER WITH MIXED LOADS AND THEY NEEDED TO KEEP THOSE COMING IN.
WE WANTED TO ALLOW THAT TO CONTINUE TO HAPPEN, BUT TO KEEP IT IN A CONFINED AREA.
SO WE, AND THE OTHER ISSUE IS AS THE, YOU KNOW, THE DEC UM PERSON TESTIFIED THEY'RE NOT REQUIRING TESTING OF THE SOIL, UM, BEFORE IT COMES IN.
SO WE'RE NOT SURE IF THERE ARE OTHER CONTAMINANTS IN IT.
AND THAT IS OF CONCERN COMING FROM A ROADWAY.
THE ODDS OF THEIR CONTAMINANTS BEING UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE OF THAT IS A LOT LESS THAN SOMETHING THAT'S BEING REMOVED FROM A GAS STATION OR ANOTHER SITE THAT IS NOT BEING TESTED AND JUST BEING VISUALLY INSPECTED.
DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO THAT? IT SEEMS THOUGH THAT, UM, JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, THAT THAT THEN ELIMINATES LIKE PRIVATE DRIVEWAYS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT AREN'T PART OF A GAS STATION.
UM, IS THERE A WAY THAT YOU COULD CONSIDER LIKE NOT SUCH A BROAD LIMITATION? SO AS, UM, ALSO THE PERSON THAT WAS DISCUSSING THE ASPHALT SAID THAT A LOT OF THE MATERIALS THAT DRIVEWAYS ARE SEALED WITH ARE CONTAMINANTS.
[02:10:01]
CARCINOGENS.SO HAVING THAT MATERIAL ALSO BROUGHT TO THE SITE IS OF A CONCERN FOR US.
EVERYBODY HAS REFERRED TO A SMELL TEST AND A VISUAL TEST.
IS THERE A TRAINING PROGRAM THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASK THE APPLICANT? I'VE NEVER HEARD OF A SMELL TEST OR VISUAL TEST.
IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT HAS PETROLEUM DRIPPING OFF OF IT, UM, WOULD BE OBVIOUS.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU WOULD LOOK AT IF THERE IS A MOLECULAR LEVEL, UM, CONTAMINANT, HOW YOU WOULD VISUALIZE THAT.
I WOULD NOTE THAT MANY CONTAMINANTS DON'T HAVE A SMELL.
MANY CONTAMINANTS DON'T HAVE A SMELL TO THEM.
THIS MIGHT NOT, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE THE ANSWER TO THIS, BUT YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT BE THAT THE, UM, THE APPLICANT ANSWERS IT.
SO WE DID ALL AGREE IN SEPTEMBER THAT THEY WOULD HAVE MONITORS.
I DON'T THINK ANYBODY EXPECTED THAT THEY WOULD REACH THE COST.
BUT I HEARD YOU GUYS SAY THAT THEY ACTUALLY ASKED THE MONITORS TO LEAVE THE SITE AND THEY WERE IN THE ROADWAY.
DO YOU KNOW WHY THEY WERE ASKED TO LEAVE THE SITE? UM, I CAN LET, I WOULD LET, YEAH, I WOULD LET THE APPLICANT OKAY.
IF WE COULD JUST RESOLVE, 'CAUSE AGAIN, WE HAVE THE TWO SHEETS OF COMPARISON HERE.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GOT A CHANCE TO SEE BAIL'S CONDITIONS THAT THEY WERE WILLING TO COMPLY WITH.
NUMBER FOUR, HOW DO WE RECONCILE THEREFORE, AND I'M ASSUMING WITH OUR, THE TOWN'S FOUR AND FIVE 'CAUSE IT KIND OF SEEMS THAT THEY'RE IN AGREEMENT TO MAKE, WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH THE CRUX OF THE MATTER, IS WHAT MATERIAL IS GOING TO BE ON SITE, UM, VERSUS THE VIDEO THAT WAS SHOWN, WHICH IS MORE, UM, SEDIMENTARY, UH, LOOSER GRIT, UM, PILES VERSUS THEY'RE SAYING NO SOIL, NO DIRT SHALL BE PERMITTED.
IS THIS IN KEEPING WITH WHERE THE TOWN WANTS THEM TO GO? I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY, WHEN WE SIT DOWN AND COMPARE, WE'RE LOOKING AT APPLES TO ORANGES.
I MEAN, APPLES TO APPLES ARE NOT AN APPLE AND ORANGE.
'CAUSE THEIR NUMBER FOUR, I THINK IS SAYING EXACTLY WHAT WAS BEING ASKED FOR, UNLESS I'M READING IT IN PROPERLY.
ARE ARE NUMBER FOUR WE'RE ASKING, WELL, IF I'M KIND OF COMBINING OUR, UH, THE TOWN'S FOUR AND FIVE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT GETS A LITTLE BIT MORE DETAILED.
IT SAYS THE SITE SHALL BE PERMITTED TO RECEIVE AND PROCESS ROCK AGGREGATE, CONCRETE AND MIXED LOADS FROM EXCAVATIONS.
NO SOIL, DIRT SHALL BE PERMITTED.
WHICH AGAIN IS ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT THAT WE FOUND WAS MORE OF A, WAS MORE PROBLEMATIC.
DOES THIS KIND OF MEET THE TEST OF WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO GO OR DOES NOT? SO THEY'RE SAYING NO SOIL, DIRT IS JUST STANDALONE SOIL AND DIRT.
I'M ASSUMING I DON'T HAVE THEIR, UH, LIST IN FRONT OF ME.
UM, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO COMPARE THE TWO OF THEM TO SEE WHERE WE'RE CROSS.
AND I, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA BE HELPFUL FOR US TO BE ABLE TO REALLY MAKE A A, A TRUE DETERMINANT.
I MEAN THE PICTURES WERE VERY GRAPHIC AND CLEAR, BUT YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE SAFETY AND SECURITY, AS I SAID, IN TERMS OF INDIVIDUALS WALKING BY THE SITE, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THE WORKERS THAT ARE ON SITE.
YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT OUR FIRST RESPONDERS TO BE, UH, JEOPARDIZED, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT AS WE'RE COMPARING THEM, AND OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, EVERYONE DIDN'T SIT DOWN TO COMPARE THEIR NOTES TOGETHER BEFORE IT WAS PRESENTED TO US.
BUT WE'RE AT THIS POINT NOW JUST TRYING TO KNIT THIS TOGETHER TO FIND IT.
I HAVE, I HAVE MORE CHECK MARKS OF AGREEANCE THAN NOT.
AND IT MIGHT'VE BEEN MORE HELPFUL FOR US TO JUST SEE WHERE THE AREAS WERE THAT WE DON'T AGREE ON.
UM, 'CAUSE AGAIN, IT'S IN VARIOUS PARTS HERE AND THE NUMBERS AS BOTH YOU STATED AND THE APPLICANT STATED ARE PRETTY CONTIGUOUS.
AS I WENT THROUGH IT AND TRY TO TAKE MY NOTES HERE, UM, I JUST THINK IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT HELPFUL FOR US TO BE ABLE TO, TO SAY, OKAY, YAY.
MAY UP OR DOWN ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
I, I WOULD JUST NOTE THAT A LOT, THE REASON WHY A LOT OF THOSE MATCH IS 'CAUSE WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM CLOSELY FOR THE LAST COUPLE MONTHS.
HOW DO YOU WANT US TO PROCEED? MADAM CHAIR? UM, WHAT TIME IS IT NOW? 10.
FIVE TO 10? YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, UH, I THINK I CUT OFF.
IT'S 10 O'CLOCK, BUT WE HAVE TO THEN AGREE TO GO FORWARD AND CONTINUE WITH THE MEETING.
[02:15:01]
MADAM CHAIRMAN, MAY I MAKE A SUGGESTION TO TRY TO HELP GET US OUTTA THE ROOM? SURE.UM, IN LIGHT OF THE, THE TOWN STAFF'S PRESENTATION, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY THINGS WE WANNA REACT TO.
I I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE TONIGHT WITH ANY OF YOU THINKING.
WELL, WE AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY'VE SAID.
WE DON'T, UM, HOWEVER, FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE RECORD AND TO MAYBE MAKE US ALL FEEL A LITTLE BETTER AND FOLLOWING SOMETHING THAT MR. BLAND SAID, UM, USING THE TOWN'S NUMBERING 'CAUSE THEY ADDED A CONDITION, AS YOU KIND OF ALLUDED TO, WITH FOUR AND FIVE CONDITIONS, 3, 9, 11, 15, 16, 17, 18, AND 19.
I THINK WE'RE ALL WORD FOR WORD GOOD CONDITION ONE, I THINK WE'RE ALMOST THERE AS LONG AS THE PHRASE HOURS OF OPERATION IS DROPPED FROM THE CONDITION.
OUR CONDITION THAT WE OFFERED IN CONDITION ONE WAS WE WILL COMPLY WITH THE NOISE ORDINANCE.
WE HAD TO BEFORE THIS PROCEEDING STARTED.
SO, UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE, IT'S TAKEN A WHILE, BUT CONVINCE TOWN STAFF, THEY CAN'T REGULATE OUR BUSINESS OPERATION.
THEY CAN'T REGULATE, THEREFORE THE HOURS, BUT THE NOISE TIES INTO HOURS WILL COMPLY.
SO IF, IF THE PHRASE HOURS OF OPERATION, WHICH APPEARS TWICE IN ONE COMES OUT, THEN YOU CAN ADD ANOTHER ONE THAT WE'RE IN AGREEMENT ON.
I I THINK EVERYTHING ELSE, I, I CAN, I CAN SPEND AS MUCH TIME AS YOU WANT, BUT I DON'T THINK YOU WANT IT.
AND I DON'T EVEN THINK MY CLIENT WANTS IT.
I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY, MADAM CHAIR, TO GO BACK AND REGROUP ON THOSE AREAS OF DISCONNECT AS I, UM, SUGGESTED TO MY CLIENT GROUP.
I THINK OF THE SEVEN EIGHT DISCONNECTS, PROBABLY THREE OF THEM ARE EASY DISCONNECTS WITH A COUPLE OF WORD CHANGES.
THERE ARE PROBABLY FIVE REAL DISCONNECTS.
JOE AND I WILL CONTINUE TO SPEAK AND PULL OUR GROUPS TOGETHER.
UM, AND THEN WE WILL PROVIDE SOMETHING TO YOU IN WRITING AS TO WHY THERE MAY BE A DISCONNECT EVEN AFTER THE VIDEO AND THE PRESENTATION.
AND I NOW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TURN TO TWO EXPERTS ON OUR SIDE.
UH, AND WE'LL PUT THAT IN WRITING TO YOU AND WE'LL COME BACK NEXT MONTH AND MAYBE AT THAT POINT, UM, BE DONE.
I WANNA MAKE ONE, I WANT TO MAKE, I WANNA HIT ONE TOPIC VERY QUICKLY SO THAT YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT OVER THE NEXT 30 DAYS.
I DISAGREE WITH THE TOWN STAFF IN RECOMMENDING A CONDITION NEGATIVE DECLARATION.
WHY? I'M NOT TAKING THE POSITION THAT THERE IS NO WAY THAT THE TOWN COULD DO A CND ON THIS MATTER.
BUT I AM TAKING THE POSITION TO FIND THAT A CND WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE HERE.
AND THE REASON IT'S SIGNIFICANT IS THE CND REQUIRES TIME AND DELAY.
I'VE BEEN DOING LAND USE AND ZONING AND ENVIRONMENTAL PRACTICE IN THIS COUNTY FOR OVER 30 YEARS ON A MULTITUDE OF PROJECTS.
MR. ZEDA, WHO I GUESS TIMED OUT HAS NEVER DONE A CND.
I SPOKE TO SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES, SOME OF WHOM ARE PARTICULARLY EXPERT IN SECRET.
WHY? 'CAUSE THE SECRET HANDBOOK SAYS, AND THIS IS THE LAST THING, AND THEN I DO WANT TO GO HOME.
'CAUSE I DIDN'T REALLY EAT DINNER.
I DIDN'T THINK I'D BE HERE THIS LATE.
IF AN AGENCY APPLIES CONDITIONS TO AN APPROVAL THAT ARE WITHIN ITS AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE, MUST, MUST THE AGENCY USE A C AND D PROCESS.
AND I'M READING FROM WHAT'S CALLED THE SECRET HANDBOOK.
THOSE OF US SECRET PRACTITIONERS, WE HAVE THE REGS AND THE DEC PUTS OUT LIKE A 200 PAGE HANDBOOK THAT ALLOWS ALL OF US TO READ AND GET SOME REASONING, UM, FROM THE DEC.
THEY TELL US THE FOLLOWING, MUST THAT BE USED? ANSWER NO.
ELITE AGENCY NEED NOT RELY ON A CND TO ATTACH CONDITIONS THAT ARE EXPL EXPLICITLY ARTICULATED STANDARDS WITHIN THAT AGENCY'S UNDERLYING JURISDICTION OR CONDITIONS THAT AN APPLICANT IS OTHERWISE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO MEET IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A PERMIT OR APPROVAL.
UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE LEAD AGENCY COULD ISSUE A NEGATIVE DECLARATION, NOT A C AND D IF THE EFFECTS OF THE ACTION WILL NOT BE SIGNIFICANT WHEN THE CONDITIONS ARE IMPOSED IN ENGLISH.
YOU GUYS, WE ALL ARE SPENDING A TON OF TIME ON CONDITIONS THAT ARE WITHIN YOUR AUTHORITY AND JURISDICTION.
THOSE CONDITIONS WILL BE BAKED INTO YOUR SPECIAL PERMIT.
[02:20:01]
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SPENDING MONTHS DOING.I RECOMMEND, AND I SUGGEST TO STAFF AND COUNSEL, YOU DO NOT NEED TO ADD 90 DAYS OR 60 DAYS TO THIS PROCESS AND CIRCULATE AND PUBLISH.
I'M NOT TELLING YOU IT WOULD BE UNLAWFUL, BOY, IT WOULD BE IMPRACTICAL.
SO IF WE COME BACK IN FEBRUARY, I WANT YOU TO KNOW WHEN I STAND UP IN FEBRUARY AND SAY, THINK TONIGHT BECAUSE JOE AND I HIT IT OUTTA THE PARK.
YOU CAN ADOPT AN EGG DECK THAT NIGHT.
YOU, YOU ADOPT THOSE CONDITIONS AND WE CAN GO HOME.
THIS IS THE FIRST GARRETT'S HEARING THAT I DISAGREE.
ALTHOUGH I MIGHT'VE SAID TO HIM BRIEFLY OVER ONE CONVERSATION, JESUS C AND D CAUGHT ME.
AFTER FIVE MONTHS, YOU GUYS ARE THROWING A C AND D OUT THERE.
SO MADAM CHAIR, WE'D LIKE TO GO HOME.
WE DON'T WANT TO COME BACK TOO MANY MORE TIMES.
WE HAVE SOME
I FELT LIKE WE HAD THAT CON THIS CONVERSATION A MONTH AGO.
WE WERE GONNA COME BACK TONIGHT AND THERE WAS GOING TO BE A MEETING OF THE MINDS.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WILL BE DIFFERENT A MONTH FROM NOW THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WAS A MONTH AGO.
I'LL, I'LL DO THE BEST I CAN TO ANSWER IT.
BUT YOU'RE THE ONE TALKING ABOUT NOT WANTING TO WASTE TIME.
I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF NEGOTIATING TIME WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN HAS OTHER THINGS TO DO.
WE HAVE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SITTING HERE INCREDIBLY PATIENTLY.
UM, I APOLOGIZE TO ONE GENTLEMAN OUT IN THE HALLWAY.
UM, I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, WHAT DO WE GET BY SAYING ANOTHER MONTH OF MEETINGS? ALRIGHT, SO HERE'S THE SIMPLEST ANSWER I CAN GIVE YOU.
I SUBMITTED MY POT, I SUBMITTED MY CONDITIONS ON THE 13TH OF DECEMBER.
I TOOK TILL THE 27TH OF DECEMBER FOR THE TOWN TO PUT OUT A RESPONSE.
AND AGAIN, I SAID THIS EARLIER, BUT BOY, YOU BETTER HEAR THIS AGAIN ON THE 27TH.
THEY SAID ONE THING, 11 DAYS LATER, THEY SAID SOMETHING, WE'RE NOT GONNA RENEGOTIATE.
WE'RE NOT GONNA DO WHAT HE SAID.
SHE SAID, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR.
OH NO, IT'S NOT A HE SAID, SHE SAID, THAT'S NOT A, HE SAID SHE.
THAT IS WHAT THE RECORD SHOWS.
THEY SAID ONE THING AND THEN THEY CHANGED IT.
I'VE HAD 10 DAYS TO REACT TO THAT AND TO BRING EXPERTS IN.
SO MAYBE WITH 30 DAYS, MAYBE IT'LL BE, WE'LL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TIME.
MAYBE IF WE CAN ACTUALLY MEET TODAY'S THE 18TH, MAYBE NEXT WEEK WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA SIT DOWN TOGETHER AND NOT HAVE TO WAIT 14 DAYS.
MAYBE WE'LL MAKE MORE PROGRESS.
BUT IF YOU ASK ME, I WOULD PREDICT WE WILL BE BACK HERE IN FEBRUARY AND YOU WILL HAVE TO RULE ON HEIGHTS OF PILES.
WHETHER THERE'S ANY BASIS TO REGULATE ANGLES OF, OF REPOSE.
I HAVE A FEELING YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO RULE ON THAT.
I THINK YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO RULE ON WHETHER ROAD EXCAVATION, UH, MIXED LOADS IS SOMEHOW DIFFERENT FROM NON ROAD EXCAVATION MIXED LOADS.
I THINK YOU MAY HAVE TO RULE ON ASPHALT CONTAINMENT.
I THINK YOU MAY HAVE TO RULE ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE AN ESCROW.
THAT'S, THAT'S CONJECTURE AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO ANSWER.
SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE SIMILAR ISSUES NEXT WEEK ON WHAT WE'RE NEXT MONTH.
SO I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE GAINING YOU, YOU'RE GAINING THROWING US OUTTA THE ROOM AND, AND, UH, FOR DISCUSSION.
UM, SHAUNA, I, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GAINING.
MAYBE THIS IS THE BEST ANSWER.
YOU NOW REALLY, MAYBE YOU WALKED IN HERE TONIGHT, YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT THE DISCONNECT WAS FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DID NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE DISCONNECT WAS.
NOW YOU DO, YOU HAVE 30 DAYS TO FIGURE IT OUT.
I'LL DO WHAT I CAN AND I'M SURE THE TOWN WILL TO TRY TO ELIMINATE SOME OF THOSE DISCONNECTS.
I'M TELLING YOU, AS A PROFESSIONAL STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU, I DON'T THINK I'M GOING TO BE ABLE TO ELIMINATE ALL OF THE DISCONNECTS.
I I DON'T THINK THEY'VE TOLD YOU THAT WE'RE, WE HAVEN'T TRIED.
UM, SO IN GOOD FAITH, WE WILL TRY.
WE NOW HAVE SOME GUIDANCE FROM THE DEC AND FROM A SAFETY EXPERT.
MAYBE THAT WILL HELP CLOSE THE GAP A LITTLE BIT TOO.
I I JUST WANT TO BE FRANK AND HONEST AND HAVE THIS ON THE RECORD HERE TONIGHT THAT YES, I'D BE WILLING TO SPEAK TO DAVID FURTHER ABOUT THIS.
BUT WE HAVE GONE OVER THIS MANY, MANY TIMES BEFORE, AND
[02:25:01]
I DON'T WANNA SPEAK FOR THE ENTIRE STAFF, BUT FOR MYSELF, I, I DON'T BELIEVE I HEARD ANYTHING TONIGHT THAT CHANGES MY VIEW ON THE CONDITIONS WE SET FORTH.I'LL BE WILLING TO SIT DOWN TO DISCUSS WITH THEM.
BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, WE MAY BE IN THE SAME POSITION A MONTH FROM NOW WITH THE SAME FOUR OR FIVE CONDITIONS STILL OPEN AND WILL STILL NEED TO BE DECIDED BY YOUR BOARD.
AND WE APPRECIATE THE TIME AND EFFORT YOU'RE PUTTING INTO THIS BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S BEEN AN EXTREMELY LONG PROCESS TONIGHT AND THE PAST FEW MONTHS.
SO I, I JUST WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO YOU GUYS FOR WORKING TOGETHER.
I, IN, I WOULD MISS THE DECEMBER MEETING AND MAYBE YOU GUYS DON'T SEE A BIG CHA A BIG IMPROVEMENT OR TOGETHER LIKE IN 30 DAYS, BUT I ACTUALLY SEE A LOT MORE WORK THAT'S TAKEN PLACE IN THE 60 DAYS.
AND WE HAVE A LOT MORE INFORMATION FROM YOU GUYS.
AND I KNOW THINGS MOVE BECAUSE AS YOU GET MORE DATA MM-HMM,
HOPEFULLY YOU GUYS CAN SHARE DATA.
BUT I ACTUALLY SEE MOVEMENT IN 60 DAYS AND REALLY APPRECIATE IT SHOWS THAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN WORKING TOGETHER AND WE, WE APPRECIATE YOU POINTING THAT OUT.
WELL, THE NEXT APPLICATION IS WE HAVE TO VOTE.
DO WE? UM, UH, WELL, THERE'LL BE DELIBERATION.
UM, AND THEN WE'LL, NO, WE HAVE TO, NO, WE HAVE TO VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE GOING TO EXTEND OUR MEETING BECAUSE WE'VE PASSED OUR OH, I SEE.
SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS ANY OBJECTION TO, ARE YOU GOING TO DELIBERATE ON OUR MATTER TONIGHT OR ARE YOU NOT? 'CAUSE PROBABLY NOT.
UH, WE STILL HAVE THIS I KNOW, I KNOW YOU HAVE OTHER MATTERS, OTHER INDIVIDUALS.
IF, IF THERE'S NO DELIBERATION, WE WILL GLADLY LEAVE.
BUT I, I DON'T WANNA PREJUDICE MY CLIENT.
IF YOU'RE GONNA DELIBERATE, THEN WE'RE GONNA STAY.
IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA DELIBERATE, THEN WE WILL LEAVE.
THERE'S NOTHING TO DELIBERATE.
'CAUSE WE HAVEN'T ADJUDICATED ANYTHING YET.
I THINK WHAT WE KNOW IS WE NEED TO HEAR THESE OTHER THREE APPLICATIONS.
AND WE'LL MAKE THAT DETERMINATION ON WHETHER WE'RE GONNA DELIBERATE YET.
WE DON'T WANNA SLEEP HERE TONIGHT.
DO I HAVE A, I MOVE THAT WE, UM, CONTINUE WITH OUR SESSION THIS EVENING SINCE WE DO HAVE, UH, THE OTHER MATTERS THAT WE NEED TO, UH, ADDRESS HAVING GOTTEN THROUGH NONE OF THE NEW CASES THAT WERE ON OUR AGENDA THIS EVENING.
UH, GOOD EVENING, MADAM CHAIR.
UH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE BOARD, UH, I'M MATT RELL.
I'M THE ENGINEER FOR THE PROJECT.
UH, WE HAVE A FEW OTHER DESIGN PROFESSIONALS THAT WILL BE, UH, SPEAKING TONIGHT, BUT DON'T GET SCARED.
WE'LL GET THROUGH THIS QUICKLY.
AND, AND THEY WILL ALSO SPEAK FOR A FEW THINGS.
I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE MY SCREEN IF THAT'S ALLOWED.
AND IN HERE, AND SHARE THE SCREEN.
LOOKS LIKE I'M GONNA PUT THE WRONG SCREEN.
OKAY, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S UP ON THE SCREEN NOW.
UH, AGAIN, UH, GOOD EVENING LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AGAIN, MY NAME IS MATT
UH, A FEW THINGS TO GO OVER TONIGHT.
UH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PROJECT OVERVIEW.
WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING.
UH, THAT'S MAINLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF, UH, MAYBE PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T AT THE DECEMBER MEETING AND ALSO
[02:30:01]
PROBABLY, UH, SOME OF THE, EVEN THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE PROBABLY NEED TO BE REFRESHED A LITTLE BIT ON THE ISSUES.UH, WE'RE GONNA GO OVER, UH, ARCHITECTURAL PLANS AND HOW THE PROJECT WILL LOOK.
UH, IF YOU RECALL, WE WERE HERE ON DECEMBER 14TH AT THAT MEETING.
AND, UH, FOLLOWING THAT DELIBERATION, WE RECEIVED TWO COMMENTS FROM THE TOWN.
UH, ONE OF THEM WAS TO SUBMIT ARCHITECTURAL PLANS TO SHOW HOW THE, UH, PROJECT WILL LOOK.
AND, UH, WE HAVE SUBMITTED THOSE PLANS AND, UH, OUR PROJECT ARCHITECT WILL GO THROUGH THOSE IN DETAIL WITH YOU.
UH, FOLLOWING THAT, UH, WE'RE GONNA TURN IT OVER TO THE PROJECT LANDSCAPE, UH, ARCHITECT.
WE'LL TALK ABOUT WHY WE'RE DOING SOME OF THESE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING.
AGAIN, UH, THE COMMENTS FROM THE BOARD THAT WE RECEIVED FOLLOWING THE SEPTEMBER 14TH MEETING, UH, WAS ASKING FOR SOME JUSTIFICATION AND FURTHER EXPLANATION AND CLARIFICATION AS TO WHY, UH, WE WANTED TO GO THROUGH THIS PROJECT.
UH, SO THAT'S KIND OF THE AGENDA THAT WE SET THROUGH FOR OUR PRESENTATION, UH, COMING UP RIGHT NOW.
BE VERY QUICK ON THIS SLIDE JUST TO GIVE A QUICK PROJECT OVERVIEW.
UH, THIS IS THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO THE TOWN OF GREENBURG OVER THE SUMMER.
UH, WE RECEIVED, I BELIEVE, A NEUTRAL DECISION FROM THE TOWN PLANNING BOARD WHEN THIS WAS PRESENTED TO THEM.
UH, SO THE MATTER HAS BEEN REFERRED TO ZONING AND WE STILL HAVE, UH, THE ISSUE OF A WETLAND PERMIT THAT WE'RE WORKING THROUGH WITH THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT ON.
UH, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, THE PLANNING BOARD HAS GIVEN US A NEUTRAL DETERMINATION, UH, AND, UH, BASICALLY, UM, DEFERRED DECISION OVER TO THE ZONING BOARD ON SOME OF THE MATTERS.
UH, I THINK THIS IS THE MUCH BETTER, UH, DIAGRAM TO LOOK AT.
THIS IS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL RENDERING THAT GIVES A BETTER OVERVIEW OF THE SITE.
UH, THE SITE IS A CORNER LOT WITH A MOUNTAIN ROAD ON BOUNDING IT TO THE SOUTH AND BLUEBERRY HILL ROAD.
UH, ON THE WEST SIDE, UH, THE MAJOR FEATURE OF THIS LOT IS THE LARGE POND THAT IS IN THE BACKYARD.
AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE TOPOGRAPHY OF THE SITE SLOPES DOWN FROM BOTH MOUNTAIN ROAD AND BLUEBERRY HILL ROAD TO THE POND THAT'S IN THE BACKYARD.
UH, THE LEE'S CURRENT HOUSE IS RIGHT HERE, SHOWN IN GRAY.
THE GRAY SHADE PORTION OF THE HOUSE IS THE EXISTING BUILDING.
AND WHAT THIS PROJECT PROPOSES TO DO IS TO ADD A GARAGE STRUCTURE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY.
THERE'LL BE A DECK ON TOP OF THAT GARAGE.
YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IT IN THE BACK HERE.
UH, THERE WILL BE AN ADDITION, SECOND STORY, ADDITION TO THE HOUSE.
UH, THAT WILL BE OVER, UH, KIND OF CALL IT A CARPORT AREA THAT WILL FACILITATE LOADING AND UNLOADING.
UH, AND THEN ALSO WHAT WE BELIEVE IS A KEY FEATURE OF THIS PROJECT IS THE BREEZEWAY, UH, THAT SEPARATES THIS NEW GARAGE STRUCTURE FROM THE EXISTING HOUSE.
AND WE'LL DISCUSS THAT FEATURE A LITTLE BIT MORE LATER ON.
UH, WHY WE'RE HERE BEFORE THE BOARD TONIGHT IS WE NEED TO SEEK FIVE VARIANCES FOR THE PROJECT.
AND, UH, I'M JUST SETTING THESE UP FOR YOU RIGHT HERE.
UH, THE VARIANCES REQUIRED ARE MINIMUM SETBACK FROM THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING TO THE FRONT YARD.
THERE IS AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMANCE, BUT WE'RE ASKING FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE.
WE ALSO NEED A MINIMUM SETBACK FROM THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING TO THE SIDE YARD.
AGAIN, THERE'S A, UH, I TAKE THAT BACK.
WE CURRENTLY MEET, UH, WE, WE CURRENTLY MEET THE REQUIREMENT, BUT WE ARE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE, UH, TO, BECAUSE WE ARE GONNA GO INTO THAT, UH, SETBACK AREA ON THE SIDE.
UH, WE'LL NEED MINIMUM SETBACK FROM A DRIVEWAY TO A SIDE YARD.
THE EXISTING, UH, DRIVEWAY IS NON-CONFORMING, SO WE'RE LOOKING TO LEGALIZE THAT.
AND THEN, UH, THE TWO NEW FEATURES THAT ARE BEING ADDED, THE STAIRWAY AND THE DECK, UH, WE WILL BE WITHIN THE FIVE FOOT SETBACK TO THE PROPERTY LINE FOR THE PRIVATE.
AND THIS IS GONNA MAKE A LOT MORE SENSE ON THE NEXT SLIDE HERE.
UH, THIS IS A SATELLITE VIEW OF THE PROJECT.
AGAIN, THIS IS THE EXISTING HOUSE.
THIS IS BLUEBERRY HILL ROAD RIGHT DOWN HERE.
EVERYTHING'S FOLKS BACK TOWARDS THE POND RIGHT HERE.
AND IT CURRENTLY EXISTS A VERY STEEP DRIVEWAY, UH, THAT GOES DOWN, AS YOU CAN SEE, TO WHERE THEY CURRENTLY PARK THEIR CARS.
WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO DO IS TO CONSTRUCT THE, UM, ADDITION INTO THIS AREA RIGHT HERE WITH A LITTLE CARDBOARD.
THE BREEZEWAY WOULD BE BETWEEN THE NEW GARAGE AND DECK STRUCTURE, WHICH IS IN THE REAR HERE, AND THE EXISTING RESIDENCE RIGHT HERE.
NOW, THE REASON WE NEED ALL THE VARIANCES IS, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY IS CURRENTLY ABUTTING THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO BECAUSE THE NEW GARAGE NECESSARILY WILL GO AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE NEW GARAGE WOULD BE VERY CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
AND THIS, UH, NEW STRUCTURE WITH THE DECK AND THE STAIRWAY WOULD ALSO BE VERY CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO THAT IS THE, UH, THE BASIS OF THE PROJECT AND WHY WE'RE HERE TONIGHT.
UM, YOU CAN SEE THE NEIGHBORS HERE, WE WILL DISCUSS THIS A LITTLE BIT LATER AS WELL.
UM, THEY HAVE A VERY SIMILAR SETUP WITH THEIR GARAGE AND THEIR, THEIR RESIDENCE.
[02:35:01]
ALSO, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT HOW THIS AREA IS SCREENED RIGHT HERE.THERE IS SOME, UH, YOU KNOW, SOME NICE TREES AND VEGETATION IN THIS AREA.
UH, AND I BELIEVE OUR LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT WILL GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THAT.
UH, SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO THE PROJECT ARCHITECT, UH, AKA KATA
HI, UH, UH, MY NAME IS TAKAKI KATA.
WE ARE IN CHARGE OF ARCHITECTURAL, UH, DESIGN FOR THE PROJECT.
AND WE ARE GIVEN THE PROBLEM FOR THIS PROJECT TO ADD A TWO CAR GARAGE AND AN OFFICE ABOVE AND A ROOF DECK, UH, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE VIEW OF THE POND.
AND DURING THE SITE, IT MADE A LOT OF SENSE TO PUT THOSE NEW STRUCTURE, UH, AT THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY AND PARKING AREA, UH, WHICH IS RIGHT NEXT TO, UH, EXISTING MAT ROOM WHERE THEIR FOOD AND DAILY GOODS ARE STORED.
AND WHEN WE VISITED THE SITE, WE IMMEDIATELY REALIZED THE BEAUTY OF THE BEAUTY WAS THE POND AND THAT THE SPEAKING WITH THE CLIENT, UH, THERE WAS STRONG DESIRE TO DETAIN THAT VIEW.
THAT'S WHERE THE CO UH, CONCEPT OF THIS VIEW CORRIDOR CAME.
AND, UH, BY CREATING THE BREEZEWAY.
AND I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE, UH, TWO OTHER, UH, CLIENT IN THE SAME ROAD.
AND I RECOGNIZE THAT THEY SPEND A LOT OF TIME SPEAKING AT THE BLUEBERRY LOAD.
AND CREATING THIS BUICK CORRIDOR IS NOT ONLY FOR THE CLIENT, BUT THE WHO LIVES THERE.
UM, AND THIS BUICK CORRIDOR ALSO, UM, CREATE A GREAT CIRCULATION, UM, AROUND THE HOUSE.
OTHERWISE, UH, UH, OWNER AS WELL AS THEIR TWO CHILDREN HAVE TO WALK AROUND TO AROUND THE HOUSE TO GET THE, THE POND.
IT'S ALSO, UH, THIS BREEZEWAY ALSO BREAKS DOWN THE VOLUME OF THE NEW AND EXISTING STRUCTURE.
AND I BELIEVE THAT WOULD AVOID THE APPEARANCE OF LARGE STRUCTURE, UM, ARCHITECTURALLY.
AND MATT, IF YOU COULD JUST GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
UM, THE SAME SLIDE, BUT I GOING, UM, EXPLAIN THE WAY WE APPROACHED THE GRAY IS EXISTING, AS MATT MENTIONED, AND WE ARE EXTENDING THAT LOOP TO BE CONSISTENT HEIGHTWISE.
AND THE GARAGE IS SHIFTED EIGHT FEET FROM THE EXISTING TO CREATE THIS VIEW CORRIDORS.
IT'S ALSO SHIFTED TOWARDS THE POND SO THAT THERE WILL BE A FLAT AREA, UH, IN FRONT OF THE DOOR, A GARAGE DOOR FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING FOR THE GUEST AND THEIR FREQUENTLY VISITING PARENTS.
UM, SO THIS IS THE DESIGN APPROACH WE TOOK FOR THE PROJECT.
UM, AND I THINK I WOULD GO, UH, INTRODUCE TO THEM FOR THE LANDSCAPE DESIGN.
I'M A LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT, UM, UM, ON THIS PROJECT, UM, ACTUALLY MATT, GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, I THINK.
UM, SO I THINK YOU GUYS, YOU HAVE ALL SEEN THIS PLAN ALREADY.
THIS IS THE OVERALL LANDSCAPE PLAN, UM, THAT WAS CREATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PROJECT.
UM, AND, UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT SORT OF THE LONG-TERM MASTER PLAN HERE.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THE, UM, THE, THE LOCATION OF, OF THE, UM, OF THE GARAGE IN, IN THIS PLAN.
UM, JUST TO SHOW YOU THE OVERALL WHAT, WHAT WE WANNA SEE HAPPEN IN THE LONG TERM.
UM, SO LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.
'CAUSE I THINK WHAT IS REALLY GONNA BE INFORMATIVE IS, IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE, UM, ONCE IT, ONCE IT IS BUILT.
YES, YOU, YOU KNOW, IT IS LOVELY SEEING, UM, THE POND FROM HERE, BUT I THINK THE BIGGER VIEW OF THE POND IS ACTUALLY FROM MOUNTAIN ROAD.
UM, AND WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO HERE IS WE'RE ASKING TO PUT IN A GARAGE AND, AND THE, UM, EXTENSION OF THE UPPER STORY.
UM, MATT, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, YOU COULD SEE, UM, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE ASKING TO DO, UM, TO CREATE THIS, UM, THE GARAGE AND ALLOWING A VIEW CAR DOOR FROM THE STREET, FROM THE ENTRY, UM, TO, TO LOOK INTO THE BACKYARD RATHER THAN HAVING, UM, A SOLID, UH, FACADE HERE.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, THIS WOULD BE THE, THE OTHER OPTION TO SHIFT IT EIGHT, EIGHT FEET MORE TOWARDS THE EXISTING BUILDING.
UM, WE JUST FOUND IT REALLY NOT, NOT THE APPROPRIATE, UM, RESPONSE TO THIS DESIGN.
I THINK FOR ALL, ALL CASES, NOT JUST
[02:40:01]
FOR THE, UM, FOR BOTH THE, THE RESIDENTS, THE, THE HOMEOWNERS, AS WELL AS FOR ANYBODY PASSING BY, I THINK, UM, WE COULD AGREE THAT HAVING THAT THAT BREAK IN THE FACADE IS, IS A MUCH BETTER DESIGN APPROACH.SO MATT, CAN YOU GO BACK ONE AGAIN, JUST TO GO TO SHOW THEM THE TWO DIFFERENT SLIDES.
SO HERE'S THE ONE THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO CREATE, AND I THINK A QUESTION WAS WHY DO WE NEED TO SHIFT IT SO CLOSE? WELL, THIS IS THE REASON, WELL, ONE OF THE REASONS, THE OTHER REASON IS THE GEOMETRY OF THE DRIVEWAY, UM, WHICH WE, I DON'T THINK MATT MENTIONED, BUT I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT THING.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE DRIVEWAY IS A VERY STEEP SLOPE HERE EXISTING.
YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT FROM THIS ANGLE, BUT IT IS A PRETTY STEEP SLOPE AND THEN IT FLATTENS OUT AT THE BOTTOM.
AND THAT CURVING TOWARDS, UM, TOWARDS INWARD IS JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE AWKWARD.
UM, AND, AND REALLY DOESN'T ADD ANYTHING TO, TO THE DESIGN.
I THINK ON, ON TOP OF THIS, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S MENTIONS, I THINK, UH, ELIZABETH AND, UM, JUSTIN WILL MENTION THAT WE DO HAVE THE SUPPORT OF, OF THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS, ADJACENT NEIGHBORS HERE.
UM, I GUESS I COULD PA PASS IT OVER TO THE HOMEOWNERS NOW.
I'M HERE WITH MY WIFE ELIZABETH.
UM, WE ARE, UH, HERE TO JUST GIVE YOU OUR PERSPECTIVE AS THE HOMEOWNERS.
UM, WE'VE BEEN IN THIS HOUSE FOR A FEW YEARS NOW.
UM, MY KIND OF, ONE OF THE ROLES I HAVE WITHIN OUR HOUSEHOLD IS TO, UH, KIND OF TAKE CARE OF THE PROPERTY, THE MAINTENANCE OF THE GROUNDS, THE BUILDING.
UM, AND I WILL SAY IT'S BEEN A BIT OF A LEARNING CURVE COMING FROM A SMALL APARTMENT WHERE YOU HAD A SUPERINTENDENT KIND OF COULD HANDLE A LOT OF THE STUFF, UH, FOR YOU.
UM, BUT I THINK PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, ONE OF THE DESIGN CHOICES THAT WE MADE WITH THE BREEZEWAY REALLY IS FUNCTIONAL IN NATURE.
UM, AND IT'S TO ALLOW FOR BOTH FROM A MAINTENANCE AND KIND OF UPKEEP PERSPECTIVE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THINGS OUT OF THE GARAGE, LIKE WHETHER IT'S A MOWER, SHOVELS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, AND TO ACCESS THE REAR TO THE YARD, THE POND, UH, THINGS THAT ALL KIND OF NEED SOME WORK AND TOUCHING O OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR FOR THE DIFFERENT SEASONS TO BE ABLE TO, UM, UH, TO ACCESS EQUIPMENT AND BRING THAT THROUGH THE BREEZEWAY TO THE BACK.
UH, I THINK IN THE DESIGN WHERE THE HOME OR THE GARAGE IS, UH, CLOSER TO THE HOUSE WITHOUT THE BREEZEWAY, IT WOULD REALLY LIMIT.
UH, MATT, IF YOU COULD GO BACK UP TO, UH, THE LAST, YEAH.
IF, IF WE HAD THIS DESIGN, I THINK HAVING TO WALK AROUND TOWARDS THE PROPERTY LINE ON THE LEFT OF THAT GARAGE IS REALLY KIND OF AGAINST THE TREE LINE AND THE SHRUBS, AND IT MAKES IT A BIT OF A, UH, IMPRACTICAL TO, TO GO THAT WAY.
AND SO THAT'S FUNCTIONALLY, UM, HOW I VIEW IT.
AND THEN OF COURSE, FOR OUR CHILDREN AND GUESTS OF THE PROPERTY WHO ARE VISITING, I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS THE REAR THROUGH THAT BREEZEWAY.
UM, AND AGAIN, I DID WANNA FOCUS ON THE LETTER AND MAYBE IF I COULD READ IT FOR ALL OF YOU.
UM, IT'S, UH, THIS IS FROM OUR IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT NEIGHBOR WHO WE SHARE THAT PROPERTY LINE WITH, AND THEY WOULD CLEARLY BE THE ONES THAT WOULD BE MOST IMPACTED BY THE BUILD AND THEY ARE FULLY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS PROJECT.
UM, AND IN THEIR OWN WORDS, I WILL SAY, UH, MY WIFE SONJA AND I ARE THE OWNERS AND RESIDENCE OF THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT FOUR BLUEBERRY HILL ROAD IN IRVINGTON.
WE ARE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS WITH THE LEE FAMILY AND SUBMIT THIS LETTER IN SUPPORT OF THEIR APPLICATION.
SIMILAR TO THE LEASE PROPERTY, WE ALSO HAVE A STEEP DRIVEWAY ALONG OUR NORTH PROPERTY LINE.
THE PREVIOUS OWNERS OF OUR HOME ADDED A TWO CAR GARAGE AND BREEZEWAY AT THE BOTTOM OF THE DRIVEWAY WITHOUT ISSUE.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE LEE FAMILY IS PROPOSING A SIMILAR ADDITION OF A GARAGE AT THE END OF THEIR DRIVEWAY.
IT SEEMS THAT MANY OF THE HOMES ON OUR STREET WERE SIMILAR IN THEIR ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, BUT NEARLY ALL OF THE HOMES HAVE BEEN EXPANDED AND OR ALTERED OVER THE YEARS.
THE LEE PROPERTY IS ONE OF THE ONLY HOMES IN OUR RESIDENTIAL LOOP WITHOUT A GARAGE, AND WE SYMPATHIZE WITH THE DIFFICULTIES OF UTILIZING A SEAT DRIVEWAY, ESPECIALLY DURING THE WINTERTIME WITH YOUNG CHILDREN.
WE SUPPORT THEIR PLANS FOR THE PROPOSED ADDITIONS.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT AND THEY CONCLUDE THAT WAY.
UM, MATT, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE ABLE TO PULL UP THE VIDEO THAT WE HAD INCLUDED.
[02:45:02]
IT, THE, THE IDEA FOR THAT WAS TO JUST GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE CONTEXT FOR HOW STEEP THE DRIVEWAY ACTUALLY IS.UM, IS THAT AS A, THAT'S, UH, THAT'S A STILL OF IT.
LEMME SEE IF I, BECAUSE I, UH, I I FLATTENED IT HERE TOO.
GET THE, UH, I I CAN GET THE VIDEO UP ON SCREEN.
UH, SOMETIMES IT'S EASIER TO DISPLAY, UH, HERE, FLAT HERE.
I THINK THIS IS YOUR VIDEO, RIGHT? YEAH, I THINK YOU COULD JUST HIT, HIT THAT PLAY BUTTON RIGHT THERE.
SO THAT'S OUR DAUGHTER, OUR 7-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER WALKING, WALKING DOWN THE DRIVEWAY GIVES YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A FEEL FOR WHAT THE PROPERTY LOOKS LIKE.
THAT'S THE SLOPE OF THE DRIVEWAY CURRENTLY.
YEAH, SO AS A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED, UM, PRIOR TO ME, UM, I WANTED TO FOCUS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THE VIEW OF THE BACKYARD AND THE POND THAT WE HAVE.
UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE NEXT SLIDE, UM, THERE IS A PICTURE OF THE POND FROM OUR LIVING ROOM.
UM, IN THE WINTERTIME, AS YOU CAN SEE, IT'S, UM, IT'S A PRETTY NICE VIEW.
THE NEXT SLIDE AFTER THAT SHOWS A COMPILATION OF THE VIEW THAT WOULD BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE TYPE OF VIEW YOU WOULD SEE FROM THE CORRIDOR BECAUSE IT'S, THIS IS FROM OUR BEDROOM WINDOW OVER THE SEASONS OF THE, IN THE TWO YEARS THAT WE'VE LIVED IN THIS HOUSE.
AND THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO RETAIN, HONESTLY, AT LEAST EVEN THE SLIVER OF IT FROM THE FRONT OF OUR PROPERTY, WE THINK IT ADDS TO THE CURB APPEAL.
WE THINK THAT, UM, A BREEZEWAY IS NICE GENERALLY, BUT A BREEZEWAY WITH A VIEW LIKE THIS IS EVEN NICER.
AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, FROM THE ZONING BOARD PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A LARGELY TECHNICAL EXERCISE, RIGHT? IT REQUIRES YOUR GOOD JUDGMENT.
UM, AND, AND LOOKING AT THE, THE VARIANCES AND THE, AND THE CODES AND, AND THE RULES.
BUT FROM A HOME HOMEOWNER'S PERSPECTIVE, THIS BACKYARD AND VIEW IS VERY BIG.
PART OF THE REASON WHY WE LEFT MANHATTAN AND CAME UP TO THE SUBURBS, UM, TO LIVE IN THE COUNTRY, RIGHT? AND WE ARE, THIS, THIS APPLICATION IS ONE STEP IN A MUCH LARGER AND EXTENDED PROCESS TO TRY TO MAKE THIS HOME A PLACE THAT WE WANT TO RAISE OUR KIDS IN, AT LEAST DURING THEIR SCHOOL AGED YEARS.
AND CONSIDERING THAT WE HAVE 7-YEAR-OLD AND A 1-YEAR-OLD, THOSE ARE MANY YEARS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AND SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE OVERALL SORT OF GOAL FOR US IN, IN, YOU KNOW, SUBMITTING THIS APPLICATION AND GOING THROUGH MANY, MANY STEPS AND WORKING WITH AN ENTIRE TEAM TO GET THIS APPROVED, IT'S REALLY TO TRY TO HAVE AND MAKE A HOME THAT WE'RE PROUD TO LIVE IN.
AND PART OF THAT HAS TO INCLUDE AESTHETICS FROM OUR PER PERSPECTIVE.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY TECHNICALLY WITHIN YOUR JURISDICTION TO THINK ABOUT, RIGHT? WE'RE BOTH LAWYERS.
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS OF WHAT YOUR JOB DESCRIPTION IS, AND WE UNDER JUST LIKE, WE UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR JOBS ARE.
SO I, I SYMPATHIZE WITH THAT COMPLETELY, BUT I'M JUST, I GUESS THE LAST POINT THAT I WANNA LEAVE YOU WITH IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, THE, THE DECISION THAT THE BOARD MAKES IN OUR APPLICATION, WHETHER IT BE TODAY OR NEXT MONTH, HAS A LASTING IMPACT ON US AND OUR FAMILY'S USE OF THE HOUSE ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
AND SO I KNOW THAT YOU ALL KNOW THAT, BUT I JUST WANT TO GIVE A GENTLE REMINDER THAT FOR US, IT'S, IT'S A BIGGER, YOU KNOW, IMPACT ON OUR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES THAN, UM, THAN MAYBE YOU, YOU REALIZE.
SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
ANY QUESTIONS? UH, WHEN, WHEN THE APPLICATION CAME BEFORE US LAST, WE DID DELIBERATE AND I BELIEVE SOME SUGGESTIONS WERE MADE.
SO SINCE YOU BOTH ARE ATTORNEYS, WE'LL VENTURE OUT HERE FOR A MOMENT.
UM, THERE'S ALSO A FACTOR OF PRECEDENCE IN TERMS OF WHAT YOUR FIVE VARIANTS ARE ASKING US TO DO.
UM, COUPLED WITH THAT, WE ALSO HAVE CERTAIN TEST FACTORS THAT WE HAVE TO GO, WHICH GIVES US THE LATITUDE TO MAKE CERTAIN DECISIONS.
UM, AND FRANKLY, RIGHT NOW YOU'RE ASKING US TO ALLOW YOU TO PLACE A STRUCTURE, A DESIRED STRUCTURE, UM, DIRECTLY ON THE PROPERTY LINE ADJACENT TO ANOTHER PROPERTY, WHICH POTENTIALLY COULD IMPACT THE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PROPERTY NEXT TO YOU IN TERMS OF ANYTHING THEY MAY WISH TO DO IN ACCORDANCE WITH THAT SAME PROPERTY LINE.
SO JUST UNDERSTAND AS WE MAKE OUR DELIBERATIONS, IS ALSO TRYING TO GO THROUGH THE TEST FACTORS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT BEFORE WE APPROVE A VARIANCE.
[02:50:01]
ARE VERY CLOSE WITH OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS.WE ARE IN THE SAME PROFE LINE OF PROFESSION.
WE, WE HAVE DINNER WITH THEM ALL THE TIME.
HONESTLY, ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, WE'RE VERY CLOSE WITH THEM.
WE ARE, THEY ACTUALLY JUST FINISHED A VERY BIG RENOVATION OF THEIR HOUSE.
UM, I, I THINK AS WE MENTIONED BEFORE, A LOT OF THE HOUSES ON THE BLOCK STARTED OFF IN THIS VERY SIMILAR, UM, RECTANGULAR BASIC STRUCTURE.
AND IF YOU LOOK ON A SATELLITE IMAGE OF WHAT THE HOUSES LOOK LIKE NOW, OURS IS DEFINITELY THE SMALLEST ON THE, ON THE HOUSE.
AND THERE HAVE BEEN, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF ADDITIONS OVER THE YEARS TO THE OTHER HOUSES.
WE KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE IN TERMS OF ANY SORT OF EXPANSION.
AND I MEAN, I DON'T WANNA SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF, BUT IT'S NOT TOO CLOSER TO WHERE WE ARE, WHERE THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE IS GOING TO BE SITTING.
THERE'S ALSO A LOT OF BEDROCK, AND I DON'T, WE CAN GO BACK TO THE VIDEO IF YOU WANTED TO SEE IT.
AND IT'S JUST NOT THE TYPE OF RIGHT NEXT TO OUR PROPERTY LINE WHERE CLOSER TO WHERE THEIR HOUSE IS, THAT AREA IS BASICALLY AN AREA WHERE THE KIDS LIKE SLED DOWN.
IT'S NOT REALLY AN AREA WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO WANNA PUT ANY, BUILD ANYTHING OUT IN THAT DIRECTION.
UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE TOTALLY UNDERSTAND LIKE, YOU GUYS HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE PROPERTY.
YOU GUYS HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO THE NEIGHBORS.
OF COURSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE THOSE ASSUMPTIONS AND TAKE THOSE INTO CONSIDERATION.
BUT I THOUGHT THAT IF THERE'S ANYTHING HELPFUL THAT WE CAN ADD, YOU CAN SEE RIGHT THERE BEHIND OUR DAUGHTER.
LIKE THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHERE THEY COULD POTENTIALLY BE ADDING AND THEY'RE NOT LOOKING TO DO THAT.
UM, AND SO, AND IT, IT JUST WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL FROM ANY STANDPOINT TO DO THAT.
SO IF THAT HELPS AT ALL IN YOUR CONSIDERATIONS.
I WANTED TO ADD, ADD THAT POINT.
ANYONE ELSE? I, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS.
SO, UM, DID YOU LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES TO HAVE IT BE SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK FOR AS LARGE A VARIANCE? YEAH, I MEAN, I I DID YOU SAY THE SIZE OF THE CLOSET? I MEAN, SOME OF THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN ASKED IN DECEMBER, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT ALTERNATIVES, YEAH, SO I THINK IF, UM, SUSAN MADE A POINT EARLIER IN AT THE, IF YOU, MATT, IF YOU GO TO THE YEAH, YOU WANT THE, WELL THIS, EVEN THE SATELLITE ONE RIGHT HERE, THE SATELLITE VIEW HELPS TOO.
WAIT, WHERE, WHERE THE GARAGE IS POSITIONED RIGHT NOW.
UM, THE GARAGE DOOR IS TO THE LEFT OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE LEFTMOST EDGE OF THE DRIVEWAY.
AND FUNCTIONALLY THAT'S REALLY THE MOST PRACTICAL SPOT TO PARK YOUR CARS.
IF YOU, UM, MATT, IF YOU SCROLL DOWN TO THE SATELLITE VIEW AND ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT, IF YOU, IF YOU PLACE THE GARAGE TIGHT TO THE HOUSE, YOU HAVE TO MAKE THIS, UH, A KIND OF A TURN BEFORE YOU TURN INTO THE GARAGE.
UM, AT LEAST TO MAKE A TWO CAR SPOT WORK IN THERE.
AND I THINK THAT BECOMES, FUNCTIONALLY, THAT BECOMES VERY HARD TO MANEUVER.
UM, IT'S A BIT DIFFICULT TO MANEUVER IN AND OUT OF OUR DRIVEWAY AS IT IS BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE.
UM, AND SO THAT WAS PART OF WHAT IS DRIVING OUR, OUR DESIGN CHOICE THERE.
AND THERE'S NO ENTRANCE FROM THE EXISTING HOUSE TO THE ADDITION.
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S A DOOR TO THE, TO THE OFFICE.
THERE'S, THERE IS A DOOR FRONT.
THERE'S A DOOR WOULD BE, THERE WOULD BE A HALLWAY UP THERE.
SO THERE'S LIKE A DOOR OVER HERE.
ON, ON THE BREEZEWAY THERE WOULD BE A DOOR, CORRECT? IT WOULD BE, THIS IS THE CATWALK.
THIS IS THE CATWALK FROM THE SECOND FLOOR, BUT THEN IT MAKES IT A SEPARATE UNIT BECAUSE IT'S OUTSIDE TO OUTSIDE.
NO, THEY DON'T HAVE A HALLWAY.
THERE'LL BE A HALLWAY ON THE SECOND FLOOR.
YEAH, THEY HAVE A POCKET DOOR.
AND THEN JUST A SIDEBAR QUESTION.
IF YOU HAD TO PAINT OR DO ANY SIDING, YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY BE ON YOUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY TO DO REPAIRS TO YOUR HOME.
OUR, OUR DRIVEWAY IS ALREADY, IT'S, IT'S THE, THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY IS ZERO FEET TO, LIKE, IT'S ON THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO IT ACTUALLY, THAT'S THE CASE.
NOW WHEN WE STEP OUT OF THE CAR, WE ARE, I THINK TECHNICALLY THE DRIVER, WHEN I GET OUT OF THE CAR, I'M ON OUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
SO IT'S, IT'S PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS THAT IT'S ALREADY NONCONFORMING.
THERE WOULD BE THREE FEET HERE THOUGH.
SO IF YOU WERE WORKING ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THERE IS AN, UH, AN ALLEY HERE THAT YOU ACCESS HOW MANY FEET? THREE, UH, THREE FOOT, TWO INCHES WOULD BE THE, UH, THE VARIANCE WE'RE ASKING FOR THE DRIVEWAY IS ON THE PROPERTY LINE, THE EXISTING DRIVEWAY, BUT THE STRUCTURE WOULD ACTUALLY BE THREE FOOT TWO.
SO, SO BECAUSE OF THE, UM, YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY BUILDING PARKING
[02:55:01]
FOR FOUR CARS, A GARAGE, AND THEN THE PLACE UNDERNEATH THE OFFICE, THE, YOUR DRAWINGS SHOW FOUR CARS.OH, SO THE, IT'S JUST A LANDING AREA IN FRONT OF THE GARAGE, BUT, BUT FOR YOUR NEIGHBORS, IT'S A TWO STORY BUILDING THAT'S ABOUT 40 FEET LONG.
SORRY, WHICH PART? NO, THAT, THAT'S THE DRIVEWAY OVER THE PROPOSED OFFICE IS A, IS AN OVER THE PROPOSED YEAH.
NO, THE OTHER PART OF THE DECK.
THERE'S TWO, THERE'S THE GARAGE, THAT'S ONE STORY WITH A DECK.
AND THEN THERE'S AN OPEN PARKING AREA THAT HAS A BUILDING ON TOP OF IT.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE TOP ONE WHERE THE THREE, IT'S MORE, YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IT FROM THE UH, YEAH, YEAH.
SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE THREE, THE THREE FOOT, TWO INCHES, THE OTHER TWO CARS IS, ARE GONNA BE IN THE DRIVEWAY.
NO, BUT THEY'RE COVERED, THEY'RE IN OUR COVERED STRUCTURE BECAUSE THE, UNDER THE OFFICE IT'D BE UNDERNEATH THE ADDITION.
YEAH, UNDERNEATH THE ADDITION.
IT'S, IT'S ANOTHER GARAGE IS UNDERNEATH THE ROOFTOP.
IT MIGHT BE BETTER TO SHOW THE ELEVATION.
SO THE GARAGE DOOR IS GONNA HAVE TWO OPENINGS ON THE FRONT AND BACK.
SEE IF YOU LOOK AT IT, UH, I THINK THIS IS A BETTER, THERE'S A WHOLE BUILDING OVER THAT.
THE ADDITION WOULD BE OVER KIND OF A CARPORT, THIS FLAT AREA RIGHT HERE FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, FACILITATE LOADING AND UNLOADING.
UH, THEN THE ACTUAL GARAGE WOULD BE BACK, BACK OFFSET A LITTLE BIT TO GIVE THEM SOME FLAT SPACE IN WHICH THE PARK OR UNLOAD.
I THINK PART OF, AGAIN, IT'S PART OF THE EXISTING SITE CONDITIONS.
IF THE GARAGE, IF YOU WERE TO MOVE THE GARAGE UP FORWARD TO BE FLUSH WITH WHERE THAT ADDITION IS, WHAT HAPPENS IS YOU, YOU HAVE A STEEP DRIVEWAY RIGHT INTO THE GARAGE AND, AND IT BECOMES A VERY AWKWARD, UM, FUNCTIONALLY TO KIND OF PULL IN AND OUT THAT WAY THAT THAT MOVEMENT GEOMETRICALLY WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO DO, PARTICULARLY IN WINTER TIME WITH IT.
YOU SAW THE VIDEO WITH THE STEEPNESS OF THAT SLOPE.
IF YOU HAD TO, YOU KNOW, GO DOWN THE SLOPE AND THEN TURN AND, AND THEN YOU'D HAVE TO CUT THE WHEEL BACK TO GET INTO THE GARAGE, THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY WITH A COLUMN THERE, IT'S NOT A EASY MOVEMENT TO MAKE.
I ALSO WANT IT'S REALLY GO AHEAD.
UM, I, I JUST, I WANTED TO MENTION THAT, UM, TAAKA, OUR ARCHITECT WAS ALSO THE ARCHITECT FOR OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
THAT'S ACTUALLY HOW WE FOUND TAAKA BECAUSE OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE IS A VERY SIMILAR SELL TO OURS.
WE LOVE THE WAY THAT THEY REDID THEIR HOME.
AND SO, UH, TAAKA WAS RECOMMENDED TO US BY OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
UM, AND THEY HAVE SEEN THESE PLANS, THESE ARCHITECTURAL PLANS.
TAKA IS ALSO THEIR ARCHITECT, AND TKA HAS SHOWN THEM THE PLANS.
THEY'RE FULLY AWARE OF WHAT THIS ENTAILS.
I ALSO WANNA MENTION THAT, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE VIDEO MORE CLEARLY, OUR PROPERTY SLOPES DOWN, ESPECIALLY WHERE THE DRIVEWAY IS.
AND SO WHERE THE PROPOSED GARAGE IS SITTING IS ACTUALLY AT, UH, AT A PRETTY LOW LEVEL OF THE PROPERTY, ESPECIALLY IN COMPARISON TO WHERE THEIR PROPERTY SITS.
AND SO I, I THINK THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF IF, IF WE'RE TRYING TO, OR PROPOSING TO BUILD A GARAGE ON LIKE THE MOST HIGHEST POINT OF OUR PROPERTY, RIGHT? THEN YOU CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, OBSTRUCTION THERE FOR OUR NEIGHBORS OR WHOEVER ELSE.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE CUL-DE-SAC AND WHERE WE SIT IN RELATION TO OTHERS, UM, TO OUR, BASICALLY ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS WE'RE AT A VERY, VERY LOW POINT.
I THINK THE POINT BEING LIKE THE, THE VOLUME WOULDN'T APPEAR TO BE THIS LIKE MASSIVE STRUCTURE IN LINE WITH WHERE THE
UM, AND THESE REALLY ARE THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH.
IT'S JUST ONE IS CLOSED AND ONE IS NOT, BUT RIGHT.
THIS ONE HAS, I GUESS ABOUT EIGHT FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
NO, IT'S THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH AS THE ONE ABOVE IT.
NO, IT'S JUST ENCLOSED NOW THAT THIS SEE THE BREEZEWAY THAT RIGHT.
AND I SEE THE BREEZEWAY, BUT THE ACTRESS
THEY ARE DEFINITELY IN TWO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS.
WE CREATED THEM TO BE AS PHOTOREALISTIC AS POSSIBLE.
AT THIS POINT, THAT IS DEFINITELY LOT CLOSER TO THE, THE SIDELINE.
BUT THE SECOND ONE, WE JUST ADDED MORE VEGETATION THERE.
THEY MOVED THE VEGETATION INN.
CAN I POINT OUT ONE OTHER THING? REALLY? YES.
I THINK THAT REALLY THE WORD THAT HASN'T BEEN USED HERE IS THE HARDSHIP OF THIS PROPERTY.
IT IS A REALLY DIFFICULT PROPERTY.
IT'S BEAUTIFUL, BUT IT HAS THIS POND ON IT, AND THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT.
BUT THAT ALSO RESTRICTS A LOT OF USE OF THE PROPERTY.
AND THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF
[03:00:01]
OUTCROPPING.SO REALLY THE BIGGEST IMPACT IS THE VIEW ON FROM MOUNTAIN ROAD AND TURNING ONTO BLUEBERRY HILL ROAD.
UM, THERE IS DENSE VEGETATION, LARGE TREES IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT ARE GOING TO BE STAYING BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO STAY.
UM, YOU REALLY DON'T SEE THIS HOUSE FROM THE STREET THERE.
YOU KNOW, THAT AXONOMETRIC DRAWING DOES NOT SHOW THE AMOUNT OF VEGETATION THAT EXISTS IN FRONT OF THAT HOUSE.
IT'S SET DOWN FROM THE STREET AS WELL.
THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SHOW HERE.
THE IMPACT THAT YOU'RE MENTIONING, I DON'T THINK IS, IS IN REALITY AN IMPACT.
WELL, I UNDERSTAND WHILE THAT YOU MIGHT CONSIDER THAT, UM, FROM, FROM SEEING THIS EXON METRIC, UM, YOU KNOW, TO SEE THE SITE ITSELF, IT'S REALLY A UNIQUE SITE.
UM, BUT IT IS A HARD SITE TO GET A GARAGE ON.
AND I, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING, BUT, UM, BUT I THINK THAT REALLY HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN MAKING YOUR DECISION.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY AT THIS POINT.
ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WANNA COMMENT ON THIS CASE? I YOU LEFT THE VOTE ANYTHING AFTER ANY HEARING THAT STARTS THAT YEAH, SHE'S TRYING TO PARDON ME? NO, WE ALREADY DID THAT.
I DON'T HAVE AN ENTOURAGE OF PEOPLE.
WELL, DON'T, DON'T TRY TO SPREAD YOURSELF TOO THIN NOW, BUT I DO HAVE MY ARCHITECT AND I HAD THREE NEIGHBORS THAT I'M NOT SURE IF THEY'RE STILL AWAY, WHO ARE GONNA GIVE SUPPORT.
AND THAT IS THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.
OKAY, SO, UH, MY NAME IS GREG LEON.
DRIVE, I A, A CIRCULAR DRIVEWAY PUT IN, UM, MAINLY TO GIVE ACCESS FOR MY PARENTS.
UM, SO SINCE THAT, MY MOTHER PASSED AWAY, UNFORTUNATELY, UH, LAST YEAR, BUT NOW IT'S PROBABLY BECOME MORE IMPORTANT 'CAUSE, UM, BUT SO THE PRIMARY CARETAKER FOR MY FATHER, WHO'S 92.
SO, UM, THE, THE WAY THAT WALKWAYS WERE FOUR IS UN YOU CAN'T DO IT.
SO WITH THE DRIVEWAY, I WAS ALLOWED TO PULL IT RIGHT IN FRONT, AND YOU CAN GET IT IN AND OUT OF THE CAR A LOT MORE EASILY.
SO THAT'S THE MOTIVATION BEHIND THE PROJECT.
SO, UM, COURSE DOING IT LEARNED A LOT ABOUT THE BUILDING CODE.
NOW, MY NEIGHBORS CAN ATTEST TO THAT, AND IT HASN'T CAUSED ANY PROBLEMS. AND, UH, AND ANY TECHNICAL ISSUES MY ARCHITECT CAN HOPEFULLY ADDRESS.
UH, CAN THEY HEAR ME, GREG? YEP.
UH, DO YOU WANT, UH, I THINK I KNOW YOU ALL HAVE PACKETS.
UM, SORRY, IT'S SUCH A LATE HOUR, BUT AT LEAST THE, THE VARIANCES, UH, HERE IS ALREADY ACTUALLY SOLVED.
SO THAT WAS A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, UH, VARIANCE FOR THE, UH, THE, THE SIDELOCK CONDITION.
UM, BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE, UH, TWO REGULATIONS THAT WE'RE ASKING, SEEKING RON.
I THINK THEY JUST ASK THAT YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF.
SO MEGAN'S, RONALD ANG, UH, I'M REGISTERED OUR NEW YORK, UH, MY OFFICES ARE IN BROOKLYN.
AND, UH, WE WERE ASKED TO HELP COME IN AND, AND MITIGATE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASSOCIATED WITH, UH, THE, THE, THE, UH, OBJECTIONS TO THE APPLICATION.
UH, CAN I, SHOULD I SHARE THE, IS IT AT ANY POINT SHARING THE, I KNOW YOU HAVE THE PACKETS, BUT SHOULD I SHARE THE, THE, THE SUBMISSION? SURE, SURE.
SO, UH, YOU CAN SEE MY SCREEN?
[03:05:01]
YES.SO, UM, WE HAVE THE THREE VARIANCES.
UM, THE ONE THAT, LET'S SEE, CAN I ANNOTATE? UH, AND CAN YOU ALSO SEE MY CURSOR? YES.
SO ESSENTIALLY THE, IT, THIS IS ONE, ONE ITEM, WHICH IS THE, THE SIDE LOT CONDITION THAT WAS, DID NOT MEET THE 10 FEET, BUT WE'RE TOLD, UH, KI HAD PROVIDED PREVIOUS DETERMINATIONS THAT THIS IS NO LONGER AN ISSUE 'CAUSE IT WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED.
BUT THE OTHER TWO MAIN ISSUES ARE THE OVERALL, UM, THE TOTAL EXISTING PREVIOUS SURFACE, WHICH EXCEEDS THE 40% ALLOWABLE, UH, AS WELL AS THE TOTAL DRIVE WIDTH, WHICH AGAIN, ON OUR INITIAL SUBMISSION, WE, WE TOOK IT TO MEAN CURB CUT WIDTH, AND THEN IT WAS EXPLAINED TO US THAT'S THE TOTAL WIDTH OF THE DRIVE.
UM, SO RIGHT NOW THIS IS, UH, A GRAVEL ON SAND CONDITION.
WE WERE TOLD THAT THAT, UH, MR. LEON COULDN'T EVEN DRIVE ON GRASS IF WE TOOK IT OUT.
SO WHERE WE WERE SUGGESTING OTHER PRODUCT, THESE KINDS OF GRASS PAVERS, UH, PRODUCTS THAT CAN, ARE STILL CONSIDERED, UH, UH, PERMEABLE.
BUT WE WERE ALSO TOLD THERE'S NO, UM, EXCEPTIONS FOR PERMEABLE VERSUS IMPERMEABLE SERVICES.
UH, AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT GREG, WE CAN ELABORATE THAT GREG HAD MENTIONED WAS THAT IT'S A, IT'S ALSO A FAIRLY STEEP INCLINE TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE HOME.
UH, HE WAS TRYING TO GET A MORE REASONABLE ENTRANCE TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, AND IT'S ONE OF THE BETTER WAYS TO NAVIGATE.
SO I THINK ON THE, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE IMAGES.
WE ALSO HAVE SOME OF THE SUPPORTING SATELLITE DOCUMENTS, AND WE HAVE THE BLOODING DOCUMENTS THAT WE WERE PROVIDED WITH.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THIS IS ESSENTIALLY AN EXISTING ADDITION THAT WE WERE LOOKING TO POSSIBLY MITIGATE WITH ANOTHER PRODUCT.
UH, BUT THOSE ARE REALLY, IT'S THE OVERALL SURFACE, UH, THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE AREA, AS WELL AS THE OVERALL DRIVE WIDTH.
YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE BIT OF THE INCLINE RIGHT HERE, AND THAT'S THE DROP OFF TO THE FRONT ENTRANCE IN THE LOWER LEFT UNDER B ONE.
I, I KEEP HEARING ABOUT A STEEP SLOPE, AND IN THE PHOTOS I DON'T SEE A SLOPE.
IS THERE ANY ELEVATION OF V2? IT SHOWS THAT THERE IS A WHAT? THE HOUSE DEEP.
'CAUSE I, I SEE, I SEE THAT THERE IS THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN THERE ARE A BUNCH OF STEPS GOING INTO THE HOUSE, BUT I DON'T SEE, DO, DO YOU SEE V ONE, UH, V TWO IN SOME WAYS SHOWS THE SLOPE BETTER? YEAH.
SO PREVIOUS TO THIS GRAVEL DRIVE THAT WAS, THAT WAS INSTALLED, THERE WAS A FLAGSTONE WALK THAT HAD I, I DON'T REMEMBER, SEVEN OR EIGHT STEPS.
BUT, BUT THE OTHER DRIVEWAY DOESN'T SHOW US A NO, I'M LOOKING AT THE LEFT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE LEFT, YOU SEE, BUT THE V THE V ONE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE SLOPED.
SO, SO I AM, SO I, I AM ALSO YOUR NEIGHBOR.
IT, THERE IS A PRETTY STEEP SLOPE THERE.
AND THERE USED TO BE, UM, LIKE A CONCRETE WALKWAY BEFORE THEY PUT THIS IN, THAT WENT UP AND IT WAS A LOT OF STAIRS.
UM, NOW I HA I DO HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU, YOU SAID YOU PUT IT IN FOR YOUR, FOR YOUR FATHER, MY FOLKS, FOR YOUR FOLKS, I'M, I'M SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR MOM.
COULD THEY, COULD HE NOT GO IN THE GARAGE? SO, TO GO INTO THE GARAGE, IT'S, FIRST OF ALL THE STEPS, THE WAY THE HOUSE IS, 'CAUSE IT IS ON A, I GUESS A HILLS, UH, IT'S A LONGER FLIGHT.
THERE'S LIKE EIGHT STEPS TO GET IN FROM THE, UH, FROM THE BASEMENT UP TO THE LIVING AREA.
AND THEN TO DO THAT, IT'S PRETTY CIRCUITOUS THE WAY THE HOUSE IS LAID OUT.
YOU HAVE TO GO IN THE GARAGE AND GO THROUGH THE BASEMENT, WHICH IS PIECE AND SIZE AND THEN UP AND AROUND AS OPPOSED TO JUST GOING FROM LIKE KITCHEN RIGHT OUT
AND THEN, UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT HAVE THESE CIRCULAR DRIVEWAYS? YEAH, A COUPLE.
AND WHAT IS THAT? I CAN SHARE THAT OR SOMETHING.
YEAH, IT'S, UM, SEE, RU HAS, AND THERE'S THE ONE, UM, THAT OTHER HOUSE THAT DOES HAVE A CIRCULAR ONE ON THAT IS ON, UH, PRINCETON ALSO, LIKE HEADING MORE TOWARD YALE.
UH, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S ON CORNELL.
SO THERE, THERE ARE I THINK THREE HOMES IN THE AREA.
SO YOU CAN SEE THIS IS JUST GOOGLE SATELLITE.
YOU CAN SEE THE DRIVE RIGHT NOW.
UH, THE, THE PIN IS AT THE 1 49 PRINCETON.
THIS IS RIGHT ON YALE, RIGHT BEHIND.
[03:10:02]
THERE WAS ONE ON MERCER, I BELIEVE.UH, IN A SIMILAR, IT ALSO HAS AN INCLINE, SO IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE.
SO THERE, THERE WE, WE BELIEVE THERE WAS SOME PRECEDENT IN THE, IN THE AREA.
SO I THINK WHEN MR. LEON INITIALLY DID IT, HE DID NOT SEE IT WAS OUT OF THE, THE DORM.
SO YEAH, I MEAN THIS, THIS ONE'S RIGHT BEHIND THE PROPERTY.
SO I'M NOT SURE HOW ONE CALCULATES THE, UH, OVERALL DRIVE WIDTH AND THAT, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT, YOU HAVE A QUARTER LOT CONDITION, BUT UH, YOU CAN SEE IT'S RELATIVE SIZE.
SO THAT HOUSE HAS THAT DRIVEWAY PLUS A PARKING DRIVEWAY.
THEY ACTUALLY HAVE THREE CURB CUTS TOGETHER OVER THERE.
YOU CAN PUT THAT ON YOUR, OH BOY.
DO, DO YOU NEED TO HEAR MY, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S STILL ON.
IS IT OKAY IF THEY GO TO SLEEP?
THEY CAN ALWAYS SEND US AN EMAIL.
SO, IS IT OKAY, NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR.
UM, SO, UH, RONALD IF YOU WANNA BRING UP THE SATELLITE IMAGE OF THE HOME, JUST SO YOU CAN PLACE MY HOME ON, UH, SURE, SURE.
UM, HI EVERYONE, MY NAME IS SCOTT DUBIN AND IF YOU LOOK AT THIS SATELLITE IMAGE, MY HOME IS DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT OF GREG'S AT 1 5, 1 PRINCETON.
SO I SEE GREG'S HOUSE EVERY DAY, AND WHEN I'M LUCKY I GET TO SEE GREG AS WELL.
UM, IT HAS NOT NEGATIVELY INFLUENCED, UM, OUR VIEW OF THE STREET.
WE THINK IT'S BEEN A BEAUTIFUL ADDITION TO THE HOME, ESPECIALLY WITH HIS FOLKS.
AND NOW HIS FATHER LIVED WITH HIM.
IT PROVIDED A NICE ACCOMMODATION FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO GET TO THE HOUSE VERY COMFORTABLY.
I'LL ALSO ADD TO THAT IS WHEN HIS PACKAGES ARE INCORRECTLY DELIVERED TO MY HOUSE, UH, IT MAKES IT EASIER FOR MY CHILDREN TO RUN THEM OVER AS WELL,
SO I HOPE YOU'LL TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, UM, ME AND MY WIFE'S, UM, UH, POSITIVE SENSE OF THE PRO OF, OF THE PROJECT AND, UH, EASING, UH, THE RETURN OF PACKAGES ON MY YOUNG CHILDREN.
BENEDETTO, WHO'S THE LADY WHO KEPT COMING ON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OTHER, THE MIDDLE OF THE OTHER PRESENTATION? SHE'S ACROSS THE STREET AND SHE, WHEN I FIRST DID IT, SHE ACTUALLY COMPLIMENTED ME.
DOES SHE INTEND TO SPEAK? WELL, SHE KEPT COMING ON, BUT SHE MIGHT'VE GONE TO SLEEP.
I THINK, UH, I THINK SHE MIGHT SHE WRITE A LETTER? FOR SURE.
SHE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THE ONLY ONE.
WHAT ARE YOU GONNA, HOW YOU, IF YOU WERE TO BE GRANTED THE, THE, THE VARIANCES, HOW ARE YOU GONNA, ARE YOU PLANNING TO PAVE IT? LIKE WHAT YOU YEAH, I USE THE GRASS PEA.
ANY, ANYBODY ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE?
WHICH ONE WAS IT? ONE OTHER ONE.
DO YOU HAVE NO, I DON'T HAVE ANOTHER ONE.
WHY IS IT NOT HERE? 23 DASH NO.
OH, THEY PUT IT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.
I'M THE ARCHITECT FOR MR. AND MRS. WEISS THERE WITH US THIS EVENING.
AND, UH, THANK YOU FOR REMAINING IN SESSION FOR THIS LAST CASE.
[03:15:01]
TWO VARIANCES.NUMBER ONE IS FOR A SIDE YARD CONTINUING OR A CONTINUANCE TOWARDS THE REAR.
SO WE'RE EXTENDING AN EXISTING NON-CONFORMITY.
CURRENTLY, THE HOUSE HAS A 16 FOOT SETBACK ON THE LEFT SIDE, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR A TWO FOOT VARIANCE TO EXTEND THAT, WHERE IT SHOULD BE 18 FEET.
WE'RE JUST GONNA GO BACK FOUR FEET.
IT'S A VERY SMALL LITTLE AREA.
ADDITIONALLY, THERE IS A PATIO THAT'S IN THE BACKYARD THAT WAS BUILT LONG BEFORE THE WEISS BOUGHT THE HOUSE THREE YEARS AGO.
AND THAT EXTENDS RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
IT'S BRICK PAVERS SET IN SAND DIRECTLY ON GRADE.
ALRIGHT, SO REGARDING THAT, UM, I'D ALSO LIKE TO SUBMIT TWO LETTERS.
ONE IS A LETTER FROM 47 ANDREA LANE.
THE ABUTTER RIGHT TO THE LEFT.
THE HOMEOWNER MOST IMPACTED, UH, THEY HAVE EXPRESSED SUPPORT FOR THE TWO VARIANCES WE'RE ASKING FOR.
AND A LETTER FROM NUMBER 50, WHICH IS ACROSS THE STREET.
SO BRIEFLY, I'LL JUST START WITH THE PATIO.
WE HAVE A DOCUMENT HERE FROM THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
IT'S THEIR PROPERTY DATA CARD.
AND BACK IN, UH, 2020 SEPTEMBER OF 2020, IT DOES HAVE A DESCRIPTION THAT A PERMIT WAS PULLED TO LEGALIZE THE DECK PATIOS, UH, BASEMENT ROOMS, AND UPPER BEDROOM.
THIS WAS DONE PRIOR TO THE PURCHASING OF THE PROPERTY BY THE WESSIS.
SO THEY, THEY THOUGHT THAT THIS PATIO, WHICH GOES RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE, WAS, UH, WAS, HAD BEEN TAKEN CARE OF.
NOW, REGARDING THE ADDITION, I'LL JUST BRIEFLY SHOW YOU HERE THIS LITTLE BLUE SPOT RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S THE ADDITION THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE.
IT'S LITERALLY EIGHT SQUARE FEET THAT EXTENDS INTO THE SETBACK.
SO IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN, AGAIN, I HAVE SHADED THE AREA THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S THE ENTIRE, THAT'S THE FOUR FOOT BY FOUR FOOT ADDITION WE'RE ADDING.
AND ONLY HALF OF THAT IS IN THE AREA OF THE SETBACK.
SO ONLY ABOUT EIGHT SQUARE FEET, IT'S TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
UH, IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE SIDE.
AND AGAIN, THE NEIGHBOR ON THAT SIDE HAS EXPRESSED SUPPORT.
SO REGARDING THE FIVE CONDITIONS THAT YOU LOOK FOR, LOOK FOR, IN ORDER TO GRANT A VARIANCE, UH, WE'RE BUILDING THIS ADDITION, NOT ONLY THE ADDITION IN THE SETBACK, BUT ALSO THE REST OF THE ADDITION OR PLANNING IN THE SAME ARCHITECTURAL STYLE AS THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, WE'RE MITIGATING THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE, THE ADDITIONAL IMPERVIOUS SURFACE THAT WE'RE GONNA BE CREATING BY PUTTING DRY WELLS UNDERGROUND DRY WELLS TO, UH, PUT THAT WATER, RECHARGE THE WATER BACK INTO THE SOIL.
AND THE BIG QUESTION, CAN WE HAVE DESIGNED THIS STRUCTURE WITHOUT CREATING THE NEED FOR A VARIANCE? WELL, THE SHORT ANSWER IS YES, BUT IT JUST MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE IF YOU LOOK AT THE FLOOR PLAN TO HAVE THAT LITTLE, TO NOT HAVE A NOTCH IN THEIR DINING ROOM.
SO WE CAN HAVE A DECENT SQUARE OR RECTANGLE SIZED DINING ROOM WITHOUT A FOUR FOOT BY FOUR FOOT NOTCH IN THE DINING ROOM, WHICH WE'D HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO, UH, MAINTAIN OUR SETBACKS.
AND IF YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS, UH, IT JUST MAKES SENSE TO HOW WE WOULD, UM, CREATE THAT EXTERIOR.
AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE LEFT SIDE ELEVATION WHERE THOSE TRIPLE WINDOWS ARE, THE CASEMENT WINDOWS, THE CHIMNEY, IT COMES DOWN AND CREATES A NICE LITTLE AREA FOR THE TRIPLE WINDOW THERE.
SO THAT, THAT'S OUR AREA OF, OF, UH, VARIANCE WE'RE ASKING FOR.
SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO ASK IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME.
CAN YOU SHOW US THAT? BECAUSE WE DON'T, I CAN'T FIGURE OUT FROM THIS WHAT THAT LITTLE AREA IS.
AND I'M ALSO CURIOUS AS TO ON, IT SAYS THERE'S A SLATE PATIO TO THE PROPERTY LINE THAT'S NOT SHOWN HERE EITHER.
THAT'S ON, GONNA BE ON YOUR SURVEY OR MY PLOT PLANT.
I DO HAVE A PICTURE SHOWING THAT.
DO WE HAVE THAT, THAT AREA? THAT'S RIGHT.
I BELIEVE IT WAS SUBMITTED, BUT I CERTAINLY CAN GIVE YOU THAT RIGHT NOW.
WHERE'S THE SLATE PATIO LOOK, IT SAYS IT'S HERE.
THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE SLATE PATIO.
IS THIS A PICTURE OF IT? IT'S UH, IT'S NOT SLATE.
WHERE IS THAT ON THIS, COULD YOU TELL US WHERE IT IS ON THE MAP? MM-HMM,
SO I, I HAVE MY CURSOR ON THE SCREEN HERE.
IT'S RIGHT, IT GOES RIGHT TO THE PROPERTY LINE AT THIS POINT.
AND YOU CAN SEE IT RIGHT WHERE IT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE, RIGHT THERE.
THAT'S THE, YOU TURN AROUND THIS RIGHT HERE.
THAT'S WHERE LITTLE BLUE AREA.
YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE STRUCTURE,
[03:20:04]
WHICH IS ONLY TWO FEET IN THE SAND.BUT, BUT YOU DID SAY THAT IT'S BRICK AND SAND, CORRECT? BRICK PAVERS SIT ON BRINGING SAND IN THIS PICTURE THAT WE HAD, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THAT WAS 'CAUSE I WAS LOOKING FOR A SLATE PATIO.
AND IS THIS ADDITION ALREADY UNDER CONSTRUCTION? NO.
SO WOULD YOUR, WOULD YOU CONSIDER AT LEAST COMING BACK SINCE THE BRICKS COULD BE REMOVED TO GET OFF THIS, YOU KNOW, RIGHT OFF THE LINE BECAUSE THAT'S, I I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEED IS TO HAVE IT IN THAT.
CONSIDERING HOW THE REST OF THE DE DESIGN FOR THE REAR IS, YOU KNOW, RIGHT.
SET UP THE PATIO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ADDITION.
IT'S A PREEXISTING SITUATION THAT WAS THERE WHEN THE, WHEN THE WEISS BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.
BUT, AND, UM, IT SHOULD BE 10 FEET OFF THE PROPERTY LINE, BUT IT COMES RIGHT UP TO IT.
I THINK THE QUESTION IS, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU COULD RETROFIT TO MAKE IT MORE CONFORMING? UH, IF THE WEISS ARE STILL ON, I'D LIKE THEM TO ANSWER THAT.
IT CERTAINLY COULD BE CUT BACK.
UM, IT IS SOMETHING THAT, THAT WE WILL DO IF WE HAVE TO, UM, BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE SEEN AND WHAT OUR IMPRESSION WAS WHEN WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE, THERE WAS A PERMIT OPEN FOR IT.
UM, AS WELL AS THE OTHER ITEMS THAT ERIC HAS MENTIONED.
AND BASED ON THE GRANTING OF THAT PERMIT AND APPROVING IT, WE BELIEVE THAT THAT IS POTENTIALLY ALREADY LEGAL.
AND I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN BACK AND FORTH QUESTIONS ON IT.
UM, BUT IF IT IS NOT AND THE ONLY REMEDY FORWARD IS TO RETROFIT IT, WE ARE WILLING TO DO THAT.
HAVE YOU SEEN A COPY OF THE PERMIT THAT YOU REFERRED TO? YES.
IT, IT, THE PERMIT EXPLICITLY SAYS, UH, THAT THIS WAS PART OF IT.
WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UH, TWO PATIOS THERE AND IT REFERS TO MULTIPLE PATIOS AND IT SAYS ASIDE.
AND THIS HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED SINCE, MEANT FOR MANY YEARS.
SO THE PERMIT WAS FROM SEPTEMBER OF 2020 AND IT LITERALLY SAYS LEGALIZATION OF DECK, PATIOS, BASEMENT ROOMS, AND UPPER BEDROOM.
AND THE HOME WAS PURCHASED BY THE WEISS IN OCTOBER.
I, I JUST DON'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD'VE IN 2020 THAT THEY WOULD'VE APPROVED A ZERO SET DECK ON PATIO.
DO DO, DOES THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAVE ANY YEAH.
OPINION? SO, AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION, WHAT'S BEING REFERRED TO IT IS, IS AN ASSESSMENT RECORD.
IT'S NOT A BUILDING DEPARTMENT RECORD.
WHAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT HAS ON FILE AND WHAT WE ISSUED A PERMIT FOR WAS A PATIO LEGALIZATION, BUT IT WAS NOT CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE ON THE SITE PLAN.
I'D BE HAPPY TO SHARE THAT WITH THE BOARD.
SO AT SOME POINT IT WAS EXTENDED OUT OR THE PLANS DID NOT REFLECT WHAT WAS ACTUALLY THERE.
SO THE PLANS THAT WE HAD, AND WE ISSUED A PERMIT FOR SHOWED COMPLIANCE, UM, WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE, SO, UM, THERE WAS A PERMIT ISSUED.
THERE WAS A CERTIFICATE ISSUED, THE WEISS BOUGHT THE PROPERTY.
UM, AND IT SEEMS THAT THE PATIO WAS EXTENDED AT SOME POINT.
IT WAS NOT EXTENDED UNDER OUR WATCH.
AND AND I'M NOT SAYING IT WAS.
JUST, JUST AS A POINT OF CLARIFICATION.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? I SAID THAT SHE WAS AT MORE OF THE MEETINGS TO MAKE THINGS GO SMOOTHER.
[03:25:03]
THANK YOU.SO WE'LL COME BACK TOMORROW MORNING? YES.
HERE WE, ARE WE INTO DELIBERATION? EXECUTIVE SESSION.
DO WE HAVE TO VOTE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WANTS SO I CAN'T ANSWER IT.
WHO? WHO'S CALLING? SORRY, WHAT'S WHAT? SO WHATEVER.
WAS THE BOARD SEEKING TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION? NO, I'M SORRY.
OH, DELIBERATION, DELIBERATION, DELIBERATIONS.
SO SINCE WE HAVE FAILED STILL SITTING HERE, HOW DO WE WANNA HANDLE THIS? 'CAUSE WE DO NEED TO PERUSE WHAT WE'VE HEARD TONIGHT.
UM, WHAT'S THAT? I, SO I, I COULD SPEAK ON THIS ONE.
I CAN YOU SIT UP HERE? THERE'S PROBABLY ROOM.
WHAT'S MARY? UH, JANELLE, IF YOU COULD PLEASE BRING AT A PORTABLE MIC AND TAKE I'M THERE.
CAN WE TAKE IT THERE? YEAH, I KNOW THAT.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE MORE OR LESS IN AGREEMENT WITH BOTH PARTIES IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO ADJOURN THIS TO OBVIOUSLY TO THE NEXT MEETING.
LETTERS WILL GO OUT TO THE PARTIES REQUESTING THAT ANY WRITTEN COMMENTS AND SUBMISSIONS BE SUBMITTED BY FEBRUARY, I THINK FIFTH YES.
WITH REBUTTALS OR RESPONSES, WRITTEN RESPONSES BY THE 12TH OF FEBRUARY.
AND ORAL PRESENTATIONS, IF ANY, AT THE NEXT MEETING ON THE 15TH, AT WHICH WE SHOULD BE IN A POSITION TO CLOSE THE DEC CLOSE THE HEARING FOR DECISION ONLY.
IN THE MEANTIME, FOR SECRET PURPOSES, WE'D LIKE YOU TO ISSUE A DECLARATION, A A A, A DECLARATION OF INTENT TO BE LEAD AGENCY TONIGHT.
THAT DOESN'T TIE YOU INTO ANY PARTICULAR SEEKER DETERMINATION.
AND THEN AT THE NEXT MEETING, WE CAN DISCUSS, UH, EITHER A CONDITION NEGATIVE DECLARATION OR NE NEGATIVE DECLARATION.
AND THAT WAY YOU CAN DECIDE BOTH THE SEEKER DETERMINATION, THE SEEKER ISSUE, THE SECRET DETERMINATION, AND THE DECISION ON THE MERITS AT THE MARCH MEETING, WHICH IS MARCH 21ST.
SO ALL WE NEED FROM YOU TONIGHT IS VOTE TO DECLARE YOURSELF.
I HAVE THAT MOTION WRITTEN OUT FOR YOU AS A DRAFT, AND THEN YOU WOULD JUST VOTE TO ADJOURN.
ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? OKAY.
WE'LL NEED THE MOTION IN THE VOTE OBJECT.
WHEN WE GO BACK INTO, UH, PUBLIC HEARING.
ANYBODY KNOW? OH, SORRY, WHAT WE'RE DOING? YES, I GOT IT.
[03:30:02]
TONIGHT THAT THEY DIDN'T ADD BEFORE, WHICH WAS THE FACTOR OF GETTING INTO THE GARAGE BECAUSE OF THE LOCATION IT WOULD BE IN IF IT WERE CLOSER TO THE HOUSE.AND ALSO THERE IS AT LEAST SOME THREE, 3.16 ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO IT'S NOT REALLY ON THE, ON THE ACTUAL LINE ITSELF, WHICH IS PRETTY TIGHT.
I THINK THE DRIVEWAY IS RIGHT AND READY.
I, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT QUOTE UNQUOTE BREEZEWAY AS OPPOSED IS NOT REALLY, YOU KNOW, KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE VIEW TO THE BACK AS OPPOSED TO IF YOU MOVE THE WHOLE STRUCTURE AND CREATED, YOU MOVED IT AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
I JUST, I I DON'T, THERE'S WELL, IT ALSO SACRIFICING THE PROPERTY.
THE, THAT'S JUST THE CLOSET THAT'S OVER IT.
A CLOSET AND A WALKWAY INTO THE OFFICE.
I THINK THERE'S A, THERE'S A, RIGHT.
'CAUSE WE ESTABLISHED THERE WAS A WALKWAY FROM THE HALLWAY AND THE DOOR, UM, THEY, THEY ALSO DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A FULL TWO CAR GARAGE.
I MEAN, THERE'S TWO COVERED SPACES AND TWO CAR GARAGE.
I, I, YOU KNOW, AND I FORGET WHO SAID IT, BUT IF THEY WANT TO DO ANY WORK ON THEIR HOUSE, THEY HAVE TO GO ON THEIR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY.
IT'S LIKE THREE FEET TO THE PROPERTY LINE FROM THE STRUCTURE.
AND, AND I WILL SAY, I UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO GO FROM THE GARAGE TO THE BACKYARD, PUT A DOOR ON THE BACK OF THE GARAGE.
I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE GONNA DO.
BUT NO, THEY'RE SAYING THEY HAVE TO WALK AROUND IT.
IT, IT JUST SEEMED, UH, OR SINCE THE GARAGE SAID SO FAR BACK, IT PROBABLY COULD HAVE A LITTLE DOOR ON THE SIDE.
IT WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE WHATEVER.
I'M NOT GONNA TELL PEOPLE HOW TO DO IT, BUT IT, IT'S, IT JUST SEEMS TO ME TO PUSH THIS ALL AS, THIS 40 FOOT LONG STRUCTURE ON THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY LINE SEEMED, UH, AN EXCESSIVE YEAH.
I MEAN IT'S, IT MAY BE FINE FOR THE NEIGHBORS THEY HAVE NOW, BUT IN THE FUTURE.
IT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHO WANTS TO BUY THAT PROPERTY.
AND THE, THE ONLY THING ON TOP OF THE ACTUAL GARAGE IS THE DECK.
ON TOP OF THE, ON TOP OF THE, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL THAT.
COVERED DRIVEWAY COVER DRIVEWAY IS IS AN OFFICE.
I MEAN THAT'S WHERE, SO THEY, YOU KNOW, YOU WANT THE OFFICE PUT IT ON.
I WAS, I WAS WILLING LAST, LAST MONTH TO SEE IF THEY COULD JUST MAKE IT A LITTLE NARROWER SO THAT THERE WOULD BE MORE, AT LEAST A LITTLE MORE SPACE ON THE SIDE SO THAT YOU COULD AT LEAST HAVE ACCESS.
IF SOMEBODY PUT THE FENCE UP ON THE LINE, YOU'D HAVE ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO DO REPAIRS TO THE HOUSE, ET CETERA.
YOU JUST GET RID OF THE BREEZE BY, YOU NEED TO DO, WELL, I KNOW YOU TRIGGER THE, THE HALL BUILD A LITTLE HALLWAY WHERE THE CLOSET IS, BUT THE BREEZEWAY IS PRETTY BIG.
SO IF THEY COULD MAKE THE BREEZEWAY A LITTLE SMALLER MAYBE, AND, AND GET RID OF THE, THE CUPBOARD, I THINK THEY COULD DO SOMETHING WITH THE DESIGN TO GET IT FURTHER AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
IT'S A LARGE STRUCTURE TO BE ALONG A PROPERTY LINE.
I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THIS.
WAIT, ANY STRAW BOLTS WE WANNA THROW IN? NA UM, I LIKE IT.
EXCEPT FOR THE DRIVEWAY WITH THE ZERO.
WELL, YEAH, THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
THAT'S EXISTING ISN'T IT? ISN'T THAT, WELL, EVERYTHING ELSE HAS THREE FEET.
WELL, IF IT'S A DRIVEWAY, YOU, YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET TO THE, THAT IT'S THREE FEET AWAY FROM IT.
BUT TO HAVE THE, THE BUILDING, I DON'T KNOW.
I I I DON'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE IT UP.
OR IS IT DIFFERENTIAL IN IT? WE ASKED FOR ALTERNATIVES AND THEY DIDN'T COME.
DO YOU WANNA GIVE 'EM ANOTHER CHANCE FOR ALTERNATIVES? I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM
[03:35:01]
DOING THAT.I THINK I, THAT WOULD BE, I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, BUT I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY YES TO HOW IT EXISTS TODAY.
IT'S TOO MANY VARIANCES AND IT'S JUST TOO CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
I'M OKAY WITH THE DRIVEWAY, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT.
SO I THINK THAT'S, IT'S WAY WORSE THAN THIS.
YOU KNOW WHAT, IT'S LIKE A, I DON'T BUT THROUGH THE FRONT LAWN.
THIS IS AT LEAST LIC ACTUALLY LOOKS REALLY NICE.
AND THERE ARE OTHER, OTHER PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND IT DOES HAVE A DROP TO IT.
IT'S JUST THAT IF IT WOULD, IF IT WERE A WALKWAY, I COULD SEE IT.
IT'S, IT'S A PRETTY NARROW DRIVEWAY.
LIKE THERE'S, IT'S A ONE CAR, LIKE IT'S NOT A TWO CAR, BUT IT TAKES A LOT OF, THE FRONT YARD TAKES IT TAKES A LOT OF THE FRONT YARD TAKES RID OF IT BECAUSE IT'S UP ON A HILL.
I, I WISH I, I DROVE BY IT TODAY AND I DIDN'T TAKE PICTURES.
IT REALLY, BECAUSE THERE'S A, A PRETTY BIG SETBACK.
THE HOUSE, IT DOESN'T REALLY LOOK AS BIG AS IT IS, LIKE VISUALLY.
BUT I GET, IF IT'S A PRECEDENT THAT YOU GUYS DON'T WANNA SET, I I I, I MEAN THE ONLY I WOULD CONDITION IT WITH IT HAS TO EITHER BE GRAVEL OR THE PERMEABLE.
LIKE YOU, I THINK THEY WANT PUT THE PA THE PAVERS IN, YOU KNOW, IF THEY PUT THE GRASS PAVERS THAT ROAD, THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GONNA DO THE GRASS.
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GONNA DO.
YOU ALMOST LIKE THE ONES IN THE, IN THE PATIO.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION.
'CAUSE IF THEY WERE JUST WAITING TO PAVE IT, RIGHT, LIKE PUT LIKE REAL, YOU KNOW, BLACKTOP DOWN, I WOULD'VE BEEN LIKE, BUT IF IT HAS THE GRASS PAVERS, THEY HAVE THESE PAVERS THAT HAVE OPENINGS.
IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK, THIS JUST TOOK OVER.
WHICH, WHICH ISN'T REALLY MEANT FOR PEOPLE TO WALK ON THE SCENE UNLESS THEY'RE MEN.
THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS IS TO DRIVE OFF.
THERE IS A WALKING PATH ALREADY.
THERE, THERE ARE SIDE, THERE WERE SIDEWALKS THERE WALKING PATHS.
NO, I MEANT TO GET IN AND INTO THE HOUSE.
OH, WE'RE STILL GONNA HAVE TO GO UP THE STAIRS.
BUT IT'S LIKE, BUT THEY STILL GOTTA WALK OVER THE SURFACE TO GET THREE STAIRS INSTEAD OF LIKE 20 STAIRS.
BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE REALLY YEAH, SOMEBODY STILETTO HEELS ON TOP OF IT.
IT'S GONNA BE ROUGH GETTING THAT SNOW UP.
IT NEVER FLOODS AND IT DOESN'T CREATE ANY RUNOFF.
IT'S HOW DO YOU CLEAN THAT? HMM? THAT SNOW TAKE YOUR LAWN.
YOU CAN, YOU CAN TAKE YOUR SNOW.
NO, YOU CAN TAKE, USE YOUR SNOWBLOWER ON IT.
THERE, THERE ARE PEOPLE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD WHO HAVE THEM.
MY RIDE'S COMING, SO I HAVE TO GET GOING.
THIS CIRCLES, THEY CAN MOVE IT OVER.
WHAT DO THEY JUST CUT CHALK OFF? I, THIS THAT'S WHAT I WAS THINKING.
BUT THEN YOU GOTTA, THEN YOU HAVE TO BACK OUT.
I THINK IT'S, THEY'RE GONNA GO RIGHT INTO IT AND IT'S GONNA BE DONE WHEN YOU SEE IT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S UGLY, IT'S JUST, IT'S DRY.
IT DOESN'T LOOK AS BAD THERE AS IT DOES ON THE DRAWING, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S, WHAT WAY IT'S STRETCHING.
IT, IT, SO YOU, YOU WOULD PULL IN AND GO TO THE, TO THE GARAGE, WHICH IS ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE.
BUT AS WE'RE STATING YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A LEFT HAND TURN AND GO ACROSS THE YARD TO COME BACK OUT.
NOW THERE ARE OTHER HOUSES THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE DONE IS, BUT LET'S SAY OVER OFF ARMY ROAD OR OTHER AREAS WHERE IT'S DIFFICULT TO GET IN AND OUT.
I JUST DON'T SEE THE NECESSITY.
YOU DON'T SEE THE WHAT? NECESSITY.
YOU DON'T SEE THE NECESSITY FOR THE DRIVEWAY TO THAT, THAT YOU HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ON A BUSY SPEED.
THERE'S, WE DON'T GET A LOT OF TRAFFIC TRAFFIC THERE.
EXCEPT FOR THE GET HIS FATHER INTO THE FRONT DOOR.
WHICH IS, I TAKE UP THE STAIRS.
[03:40:12]
WHO, WELL, LET'S DRAW IT.I THINK YOU'RE ALL NAY BUT ME.
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S SOUNDING TO ME.
EXCEPT WE DON'T, SO I WAS TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT WORK.
I COULD EITHER ABSTAIN OR SAY, NO, I CAN'T.
I, I JUST, AND I COULD ABSTAIN OR SAY YES.
SO
IT SOUNDS, WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE ARE THREE NOSS.
SO EVEN IF YOU VOTE YES, I'M NOT SURE IT WOULD MAKES DIFFERENCE.
I THINK THE PRECEDENT IS AN ISSUE TO BE THE AGENCY.
I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE IT UP.
WHAT IS THE MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCE AS TO WHY THE OTHER PROPERTY, EVEN WITH THE LITTLE, AND NOW WE'RE NOT THERE YET, IF IT WERE THE CORNER OF THE, THE DINING ROOM.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAY THAT THAT PROPERTY IS KIND OF BENT, IT'S NOT STRAIGHT LINES ON OTHER SIDE, THERE'S A RATIONALE TO WRITE UP THE TWO FEET THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR BEFORE 18.
AND THEY'RE TO GET RID OF THE OTHER.
WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW? I WAS JUST JUMPING TO THE LAST ONE.
JUST JUMP TO TWICE AN ABILITY TO WRITE THAT I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WIFE.
SO I'M, I'M OKAY WITH THAT ONE.
ONCE SHE SAID THEY'LL FIX THE OTHER ONE.
IT'S JUST THAT ONE FOUR FOOT LITTLE, WHICH WHAT I WOULD WE DO WITH THE DRIVEWAY ON THE FRONT LAWN.
I SAY NO, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET THE VOTES.
YOU DON'T HAVE THE VOTES? YEAH, WE DON'T HAVE THE VOTES.
SO THEN WHAT DO WE DO? IT WOULD BE DENIED.
IF WE GO WITH, IF WE GO WITH THE STRAW VOTE THAT CAME UP, THERE ARE FIVE OF YOU, RIGHT? YOU NEED FOUR TO LEAD A GRANT OR DENY.
BUT IF YOU DON'T HAVE FOUR TO GRANT, IT'S A DEFAULT DENIAL.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE HAVE AT LEAST THREE NO'S.
IF SO, IT WOULD BE A DENIAL ANYWAY.
THERE'S NO WAY WE'RE GONNA GET FOUR THE S'S.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE THEY COULD DO TO THE DESIGN.
JUST ADD ONE MORE TO NEXT MONTH.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO WRITE ANYTHING
REALLY? I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE BACK ON.
YOU KNOW WHEN HE PUT IN THE REASON FOR HIS DAD IN THE BEGINNING, YES, WE WERE IN.
NO, BUT NO, BUT WHAT I WAS THINKING IS, I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE.
AND HE SAID, IN ORDER TO ASSIST HIM IN GETTING INTO THE HOUSE, IF HE HAD, I DON'T, I, I ASSUME HIS FATHER WALKS.
HE DOESN'T SAY HE'S IN A WHEELCHAIR.
I ASSUME HE COULD GET, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THOSE LITTLE WALKERS.
AND IF YOU HAD, BECAUSE YOU WILL NEED TO HAVE SOME SORT OF, OF PAVING TO YOUR FRONT DOOR, WHICH NORMALLY WOULD COME FROM YOUR DRIVEWAY.
THEY HAVE CAB, SO IT WOULD COME, THEY'RE APPROVED FOR CAB FROM THE DRIVEWAY TO THE FRONT DOOR.
SO IT WOULD COME RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE STREET TO THE FRONT DOOR.
SO IF, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE GOING TO, IF HE SAYS WE'D GO HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE GARAGE, YOU GO IN THE GARAGE, YOU GET THE CHAIR, THE, THE, YOU KNOW, PUSH HER OUT AND JUST YOU PUSH IT UP.
THE THING, APPARENTLY HE WALKS.
IT WAS A RASH DECISION ON HIS PART.
LIKE IF I COULD GET TO MY, COULDN'T GET SOMEBODY TO MY FRONT DOOR, I WOULD NOT HAVE LIKE BUILT A DRIVEWAY ACROSS MY ENTIRE FRONT LAWN.
BUT THE EXPENSE TO TAKE IT UP IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW.
NOT INSIGNIFICANT
DID HE GET A CURVE CUT APPROVAL? I, I THINK HE CUT THE CURVE.
AND HE PUT IN, HE PUT IN BELGIAN BLOCKS AROUND IT.
HOW DOES THAT, WE DIDN'T ASK, HOW DID THIS COME TO OUR ATTENTION? SOMEONE COMPLAINED.
[03:45:02]
HAD TO BE SOMEBODY? SO SOMEONE COMPLAINED.WELL WHERE WERE THEY TONIGHT? RIGHT? YOU WANNA PUT IT OVER AND SEE IF THEY SHOW UP? YEAH, I THINK, NO, I THINK IT WAS, UM, MUNICIPAL.
FROM ANOTHER, THEY WERE LOOKING AT ANOTHER AND THAT THERE'S A NEW HOUSE THAT'S BEING BUILT IN THE AREA.
OH, THE GUY NEXT TO THE OTHER DRIVEWAY.
WHO'S GOT TWO DRIVEWAYS? RIGHT.
HOW DID THEY GET THE CURB CUT? I THINK THERE'S, THERE'S ALSO SOME CONSTRUCTION IN THE AREA THAT NO, THERE WAS, THEY PUT IT IN THEMSELVES HOUSE NEXT TO WHEN THEY SHOWED US THE PICTURE OF THE GUY WHO'S HAD THE, THE CURVY DRIVEWAY ON THE, ON THE, UH, ON THE CORNER.
YEAH, THAT, THAT'S AN OLD, THOSE ARE, THOSE WERE BUILT LIKE 20 YEARS AGO.
BUT THERE WAS A HOUSE BEING BUILT THERE, SO THAT'S WHY THEY LEFT.
THIS GUY DID THIS DURING COVID.
HE'S GOTTA, UH, YOU WANNA GIVE HIM AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME BACK WITH SOMETHING LESS INVASIVE? I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HE COULD WHAT COULD HE DO? CAN, WELL, HE COULD PUT THE DR HE COULD PUT THE WALKWAY IN AND HE COULD, HE COULD EVEN ELIMINATE THE STEPS IF HE WANTED TO.
REALLY COULD KEEP, IF WE ADJOURN IT, TO BE HONEST, AT LEAST PUTTING HIM ON NOTICE.
BUT HE MAY VERY WELL HAVE TO TEAR UP THE WHOLE THING AND PUT IT BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS.
SO BY NOT FLAT OUT DENYING IT, WE'RE AT LEAST GIVING HIM AN OPPORTUNITY.
AND HE'S ON NOTICE, BUT, YOU KNOW.
DO YOU, HOW MANY NEW, ARE THERE ANY MUTATIONS COMING IN
CAN THAT BE LAST, NEXT TIME? I DON'T THINK THAT'S ALL.
SO WE DON'T HAVE ANY, WE HAVE NO DECISIONS DECISION.
I THINK WEISS, UH, THEY, THEY AGREED TO CUT BACK THE BRICK PATIO.
BUT ARE THEY GONNA, WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW MUCH, WE HAVE TO KNOW HOW MUCH WE HAVE TO ADJOURN IT SO THEY CAN COME BACK WITH A PROPOSAL.
WELL, WHAT DID THEY SAY? WHAT DID THEY PUT IN THE RECORD? THEY DIDN'T, THEY I DIDN'T HAD TO CUT IT BACK.
THEY SAID WE, WE'D RETROGRADE.
THEY, THEY'D TAKE IT OUT BACK TO THE, UH, TO SO THEY DIDN'T REQUIRE A VARIANCE.
IS THAT POSSIBLE? BASED ON THE PLANS.
I'M ASKING YOU LIKE, CAN THEY CUT IT BACK? CUT BACK, LOOKED AT THE DRAWING.
IT WAS, IT WAS A CONVOLUTED, IT PROBABLY WASN'T THE BEST PIECE.
YOU STILL HAVE THE DRAWING UP, BUT IT WAS A LITTLE CONVOLUTED.
YEAH, IT'S THAT LITTLE CORNER, THE LITTLE TRIANGLE THAT GOES OFF TO THE RIGHT.
BUT I AM JUST THINKING LIKE, WELL, LOOK AT IT THIS WAY.
WE'RE NOT STOPPING THEM FROM, OKAY.
ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS CUT THIS.
SO THEY HAVE TO CUT IT TO LIKE HERE.
BUT WE CAN'T TELL THEM THAT THEY HAVE TO COME BACK WITH A PROPOSAL.
WE CAN'T SAY YOU MUST CUT IT LIKE THIS.
IF THEY SAY THEY WOULD, IF, IF THEY WOULD JUST TAKE, MAKE A CONDITION.
WHAT'S THE UH, THE CONDITION IS THAT THE PATIO, THE LAST APPROVAL REMOVED TO REDUCE TO THE LAST APPROVAL FOR VARIANCE TO THE LAST APPROVAL.
DO WE WANNA HAVE THEM PUT SCREENING UP OR I EXISTING CONCRETE WALL? I I, THEY PROVIDED ALMOST NO INFORMATION.
I STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LITTLE, THAT LITTLE EIGHT FEET IS.
I THINK IT'S SOMEWHERE RIGHT THERE.
IT'S, YEAH, I THINK IT'S THIS.
YEAH, BUT WE DON'T HAVE IT
CONCRETE WALL THAT I THINK COMES DOWN.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO HAVE THEM GO BACK TO THE 2020 APPROVED, APPROVED PATIO DECKING.
UNLESS THEY PROPOSE SOMETHING.
IT'S GOT A, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE SETBACK WOULD BE? NO, WE 10 FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE.
NO, THEY ALREADY, WAS IT 10 FEET OR DID THEY GET A VARIANCE FOR SOME OF IT? VARIANCE.
WELL IF YOU DENY IT, THEN THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO
BUT THEN WE DON'T GIVE THEM THE FOUR FEET THEY WANT FOR THE DINING ROOM.
NO, WE CAN, WE CAN APPROVE GRANT.
GRANT ONE AND DENIED THE OTHER IF YOU WANT.
HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO WRITE THAT ONE UP.
ED, I GOTTA WRITE THAT ONE, BUT THAT'S GOOD.
WE, ARE YOU READY TO, UH, GET THESE MOTIONS GONE SO WE CAN GET BACK TO BACK TO BED? YEAH.
[03:50:05]
ALRIGHT, LET'S GO.DO YOU HAVE ANY, I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY, DO YOU HAVE ANY THINGS WE CAN USE AS MODELS? DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ADD? UH, I DON'T HAVE AND WHAT ARE WE GOING TO, WE HAVE A BRANDING.
THAT WOULD BE, THAT'S ISN'T THIS, THAT WOULD BE 33.
WHICH, WHAT IS WHICHEVER DO YOU DO WHAT? WANT APPROVAL, DENIAL, SPEECH.
OR WE'RE ADJOURNING SOME OF THEM.
WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO IS THE MOTION AND THEN YOU CAN, SO WE'LL DO ONE MOTION TO APPROVE.
WE CAN DO, WELL WE ONLY HAVE ONE MOTION.
WE ONLY HAVE, OTHER THAN OUR, THE OTHER MOTIONS ON BAIL.
IF WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE ELSE IS ADJOURNED.
YOU ARE, YOU ARE VOTING TO DECLARE YOURSELF LEAVING.
OH, THAT'S THIS, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
AND GARRETT SAID THAT HE LEFT SOMETHING.
SO I WAS TRYING TO GET US BACK TO OUR LAST ONE THAT WE COULD HAVE SOMEBODY WRITE UP THE WEISS'S.
WELL WE HAVE, WE HAVE FOR THE GRANT, WE JUST NEED ONE FOR THE EXHIBIT.
I DON'T HAVE THAT PICTURE ANYMORE.
WHICH PICTURE? WHICH? THIS, THIS, THE PATIO.
WHAT THAT DO WITH THE, UH, HERE IT'S DAVE.
ALL RIGHT, LET'S START OFF WITH DALE.
UM, DO WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE RECORD? YES, WE DO.
ARE WE ON THE RECORD? YES, WE'RE RECORDING.
FAILED INDUSTRIES IS ADJOURNED FOR ALL PURPOSES TO FEBRUARY 15TH.
I GOTTA DO A LEAD AGENCY ON THIS ONE FIRST.
UM, I HAVE A MOTION TO DECLARE THE ZONING BOARD'S INTENT TO BE LEAD AGENCY WITH REGARD TO SECRET COMPLIANCE.
MAKE A SECOND WITH RESPECT TO CASE 23.
AND I ALSO MOTION MOVE TO ADJOURN FOR ALL PURPOSES TO THE FEBRUARY 15TH MEETING.
AND WAS THAT FOR DECISION ONLY? NO, NO, NO.
I THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT HE SAID BEFORE I MADE THE MOTION.
NO, WE DID, WE JUST DID THAT ONE.
NO, WE DID 21 AND THAT WAS 21.
WE ALREADY, WE DID THAT WHEN WE OPENED UP.
WHEN WE OPENED 22, WE JUST DECLARED OURSELVES LEAD
[03:55:01]
AGENCY AND WE ADJOURNED IT.AND THEN 22 WE'RE NOT AGENCY SAID WE LEAVING 21.
AH, BUT IN THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING YOU SAID WE ALREADY ADJOURNED.
IT'S BEEN IN THE OUTCOME OF 21.
SO WE'VE DONE, THAT'S ALREADY ON THE ROAD.
UM, THAT IS ADJOURNED FOR ALL PURPOSES TO, UH, TWO 15.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT, WELL, I'LL, I'LL LEAVE THAT ALONE.
UM, CASE NUMBER 2333 ADJOURNED.
IT IS ALSO ADJOURNED TO TWO FEBRUARY 15TH.
ALL PURPOSES FOR ALL PURPOSES.
AND DO I HAVE A MOTION? WE MISSED A CASE, DIDN'T WE? NO, NOPE.
YOU HAVE THIS, YOU HAVE THE I HAVE THE MOTION, BUT WE DO HAVE TO BE THE SEE.
LET ME DO THE, SEE IT'S A TYPE TWO.
AND WHERE? WHEREAS THE GREENBERG C-B-E-P-E.
WHERE IS THE GREENBERG? WHAT IS IT WE HAVE NOW? ZBA HAS REVIEWED THE ABOVE-REFERENCED APPLICATION WITH REGARD TO CA COMPLIANCE.
AND NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED THAT THE SUBJECT APPLICATION OF THE TYPE TWO ACTION REQUIRING NO FURTHER CA CONSIDERATION.
DO I HAVE A MOTION? THAT WAS THE MOTION.
THAT WAS THE MOTION FOR THE THE SECRET.
ALL IN FAVOR A AYE CHAIR VOTES.
AND DO WE HAVE, ALRIGHT, THIS IS GONNA BE A TWO-PARTER.
I MOVE THAT THE APPLICATION IN CASE NUMBER 2334, THE, UM, THE VARIANCE FOR THE MINIMUM DISTANCE BETWEEN THE PRINCIPAL BUILDING AND THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE BE GRANTED.
PROVIDED THAT THE APPLICANT OBTAINED ALL NECESSARY APPROVALS AND FILE SAME WITH THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.
CONSTRUCTION SHALL BEGIN NO LATER THAN 12 MONTHS AFTER THE GRANTING OF THE LAST APPROVAL REQUIRED FOR THE ISSUANCE OF A BUILDING PERMIT AND PROCEED DILIGENTLY THEREAFTER IN CONFORMITY WITH THE PLANS STAMPED RECEIVED 12 15, 20 23 SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THIS APPLICATION.
OR AS SUCH, PLANS MAY BE HEREAFTER MODIFIED BY ANOTHER APPROVING BOARD OR AGENCY OR OFFICER OF THE TOWN.
PROVIDED THAT SUCH MODIFICATION DOES NOT REQUIRE A DIFFERENT OR GREATER VARIANCE THAN WHAT WE ARE GRANTING HEREIN.
THE VARIANCES BEING GRANTED ARE FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS SHOWN ON THE PLANS SUBMITTED IN SUPPORT OF THIS APPLICATION.
ANY FUTURE OR ADDITIONAL CONSTRUCTION THAT IS NOT IN CONFORMITY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE SHALL REQUIRE VARIANCES EVEN IF THE CONSTRUCTION CONFORMS TO THE HEIGHT, SETBACK, OR OTHER VARIANCES WE HAVE APPROVED HEREIN.
UM, I ALSO MOVE THE APPLICATION IN CASE NUMBER 2334, THE VARIANCE, THE AREA VARIANCE REQUESTING DISTANCE FROM UNCOVERED PATIO TO THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE BE DENIED.
AND WITH THAT VIEW OF THE HOUR, YES.
IN VIEW, IN VIEW OF THE HOUR, THE FINDINGS WILL BE PUT INTO THE RECORD AS WELL AS IF ANYONE WANTS TO FIND THEM, THEY CAN CONTACT THE SECRETARY AND SHE WOULD MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THEM.
AND WITH THAT WE ARE ADJOURNED AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE BACK WITH, UH, ANOTHER MONTH OF SNOW.
I'LL BE ON VACATION FOR THE NEXT MEETING.